Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?

[Cinette]

I know all that. I’ve done it for many,many years.

Do you know how many times I have heard this. If I had a dime for every time I would be a very rich man.

It is the truth!

 

[Mikeoffaith]

Wait right there! Do you have any idea what you just said? Even a dolt like me knows that the Orthodox left over matters of territory and local authority, among other things. They left 600 years after Nicaea, while rejecting a portion of the Nicene creed regarding the Holy Spirit.

It’s not that simple. It never is.

You mean the part that Rome added after Nicea with out any consultation of an ecumenical council. Oh well that makes it right.

 

[Mikeoffaith]

*You must study history - it is not the way you think it is. Besides, the CC and the Orthodox are two lungs of the same body.

*

So then the Orthodox are part of the Catholic Church that Jesus started?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

So then the Orthodox are part of the Catholic Church that Jesus started?

Yes. Actually, all Christians are a part of the Catholic Church Jesus started.

 

[Erich]

Yes I can call it a denomination. Christianity came from the Jewish religion. The Catholic faith practice many of the same things that are practiced by Jews.
Jesus was a Jew. Most of the disciples were Jewish men that broke away or cut off from being Jewish and converted to Christianity. Therefore the Catholic faith is a denomination.

The Catholic faith is only a denomination of Judaism if you can honestly say that Christians and Jews are united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.

A trinitarian God and the divinity of Jesus are two “biggies” that give the lie to your claim.

 

[Erich]

Jesus started the church and the church is a group of believers that are Christians, even Catholics are Christians. Therefore Christ started Christianity. If not then who did?

So, in answer to the OP, “Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?” it looks like your answer is “yes.”

Perhaps I missed it, but I don’t recall seeing a response from you to my post #167 on this thread. Here it is again:

Not only is it obvious which church, but it’s obvious that it’s a visible (and not an invisible) church.

From Is the Church Visible or Invisible?…we read [in] this WELS declaration of principle:

“We believe that the holy Christian Church is a reality, although it is not an external, visible organization. Because ‘man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart’ only the Lord knows ‘them that are his.’ The members of the holy Christian Church are known only to God; we cannot distinguish between true believers and hypocrites. The holy Christian Church is therefore invisible and cannot be identified with anyone church body or the sum total of all church bodies.”

This view is at one with the position, as traditional Protestantism (what we might call the “conservative” wing) sees it, that the Church which Christ founded is without evident form or, therefore, historical authority (because you can’t turn to the Church as an authoritative decider of disputes if you can’t locate the Church in the first place). Loraine Boettner, a Protestant polemicist and noted anti-Catholic, in his book Roman Catholicism, quotes Stephen L. Testa, a minister who is described as “a former Roman Catholic,” as stating, “The true Church of Christ is invisible, made up of truly converted people who are to be found in all the visible churches and who names are written in heaven.” Testa and Boettner and the people subscribing to the WELS declaration say the Church is non-denominational in that it does not coincide with any of the historic churches, which are only gatherings of convenience for true Christians and potential Christians.

This theory leads one to inquire how, here on earth, where Christ’s commands to his faithful must be implemented, are we to know such a will-o-the-wisp entity? Should we even attempt to know it?
…
To acknowledge that Christ did establish a visible Church necessarily would demand that that Church be identified, singled out from other claimants, and its authority accepted. Few Protestants relish such a task. They don’t want to examine the tree and its branches. Their argument for an invisible Church becomes an argument made conclusion-end first.

 

[Irish_Polock]

You mean the part that Rome added after Nicea with out any consultation of an ecumenical council. Oh well that makes it right.

It was added via the Chair of St. Peter.

18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew (RSV) 16)

Do you disagree with the Filioque?

 

[benedictus2]

I think you might be reading just a little too much into rinnie’s writing here. I did not see the word or term “totality” used at all. The Church is His visible Body, and is lead by the Holy Spirit, and is prevented from teaching error by that same Spirit. That’s all rinnie is trying to say, I do believe. Please correct me, affected parties, if I err here.

A few posts back Rinnie said that the Church is the PERSON of Christ, that the Catholic Church is the Second Person of the Trinity and that she has always existed from all eternity which as I have pointed out to her makes the Church God. I have heard something alone those lines before from some one who leaned a lot into New Age belief.

 

[rev_kevin]

So, in answer to the OP, “Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?” it looks like your answer is “yes.”

Perhaps I missed it, but I don’t recall seeing a response from you to my post #167 on this thread. Here it is again:

No thats not what I’m saying. We are all Christians and we all belong and believe in to same God. We all believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, died and was put to death for our sins and rose from the dead and that he assended to heaven where he sits at the right hand of His Father.
The Church is these kind of people, believers and followers in Christ. The Church is inside all Christians. We believers are the Church and Christ is the leader or the head of us, the Church.
To say Jesus started the Catholic Church to me is not true. The disciples spread Christianity though the nations not the Catholic religion.The first mention of Christianity is in Acts 11:26 - “…The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch”.
When did the disciples and Jesus become Catholic?

 

[rev_kevin]

The Catholic faith is only a denomination of Judaism if you can honestly say that Christians and Jews are united under a common faith and name and organized under a single administrative and legal hierarchy.

A trinitarian God and the divinity of Jesus are two “biggies” that give the lie to your claim.

Was Jesus a Jew or a Catholic?

 

[rinnie]

Hi, Rinnie,

Sure - that first sentence of yours was:

I disagree with this. While Rev Kev and I disagree on alot of thing’s, I believe that if he felt that that the RCC was the true teaching of Christ he would become a Roman Catholic in a second.
And, just as a reminder, I asked if you had any evidence from this thread written by Rev to support this position.

Best wishes,

Hey bud, Thanks.for being more clear. And No, I have no evidence from Rev Kev personally but I know it will come from the Holy Spirit.

I have more faith in the Holy Spirit then Rev Kev (no offense Rev Kev) What I mean by that is I believe that Rev Kev is doing the best that he can with the truth that he has. Like all of us.

But I also believe that if the Holy Spirit revealed to Rev Kev and I believe in my heart it will, that will be the moment he will come to accept the RCC.

But on the other hand, I believe in my heart he is learning thing’s (as we all can and do) and is trying.

But how I am sure of this, It is like that one post I showed you. That person told me it took alot of searching and struggling to come to the Catholic Faith. But it took time, but it happened.

And we all know that God give’s us not only Grace from the Holy Spriit he gives us free will. And it takes alot of grace and free will to accept thing’s in this world. And alot of time, remember as God told his Apostles, he will give you what you can accept in the time you can accept it.

I trust God and believe in him and believe if Rev is Sincere which I beleive he is, its going down, but I don’t know when. But pray when the day comes and it does go down, Rev kev will PM me and say. Hey guess what. I am part of the RCC!!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No thats not what I’m saying. We are all Christians and we all belong and believe in to same God. We all believe that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, died and was put to death for our sins and rose from the dead and that he assended to heaven where he sits at the right hand of His Father.
The Church is these kind of people, believers and followers in Christ. The Church is inside all Christians. We believers are the Church and Christ is the leader or the head of us, the Church.
To say Jesus started the Catholic Church to me is not true. The disciples spread Christianity though the nations not the Catholic religion.The first mention of Christianity is in Acts 11:26 - “…The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch”.
When did the disciples and Jesus become Catholic?

rev kevin,

There is no ‘Catholic’ religion. Catholics are Christians. Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.

**

Acts 9:31

(IGNT+) αιG3588 THE μενG3303 INDEED ουνG3767 THEN εκκλησιαιG1577 ASSEMBLIES καθG2596 THROUGHOUT οληςG3650 WHOLE

τηςG3588 THE ιουδαιαςG2449 OF JUDEA καιG2532 AND γαλιλαιαςG1056 GALILEE καιG2532 AND σαμαρειαςG4540 SAMARIA ειχονG2192 [G5707] HAD ειρηνηνG1515 PEACE, οικοδομουμεναιG3618 [G5746] BEING BUILT UP καιG2532 AND πορευομεναιG4198 [G5740] GOING ON τωG3588 IN THE φοβωG5401 FEAR τουG3588 OF THE κυριουG2962 LORD, καιG2532 AND τηG3588 IN THE παρακλησειG3874 COMFORT τουG3588 OF THE αγιουG40 HOLY πνευματοςG4151 SPIRIT επληθυνοντοG4129 [G5712] WERE INCREASED.

G2596
κατά
kata
kat-ah’
A primary particle; (preposition) down (in place or time), in varied relations (according to the case [genitive, dative or accusative] with which it is joined): - about, according as (to), after, against, (when they were) X alone, among, and, X apart, (even, like) as (concerning, pertaining to, touching), X aside, at, before, beyond, by, to the charge of, [charita-] bly, concerning, + covered, [dai-] ly, down, every, (+ far more) exceeding, X more excellent, for, from . . . to, godly, in (-asmuch, divers, every, -to, respect of), . . . by, after the manner of, + by any means, beyond (out of) measure, X mightily, more, X natural, of (up-) on (X part), out (of every), over against, (+ your) X own, + particularly, so, through (-oughout, -oughout every), thus, (un-) to (-gether, -ward), X uttermost, where (-by), with. In composition it retains many of these applications, and frequently denotes opposition, distribution or intensity.

G3650
ὅλος
holos
hol’-os
A primary word; “whole” or “all”, that is, complete (in extent, amount, time or degree), especially (neuter) as noun or adverb: - all, altogether, every whit, + throughout, whole.**

 

[rev_kevin]

*Yes the Catholic Church has its foundations in the Jewish faith because it is the fulfillment of the Jewish Faith. It is a continuation.

No it is not a denomination.

*

If the Catholic faith had its foundation in the Jewish faith and we, non-Catholics had our foundation in the Catholic faith and we are called denominations because of that foundation then the Catholic faith having its foundations in the Jewish faith would mean the same thing, Its a denomination.

 

[rev_kevin]

People please. Although I do thank those of who who say kind things about me, may I please remind you this thread is not about Rev. Kevin someone who was raised a Catholic and became Baptist. This thread is about Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

If the Catholic faith had its foundation in the Jewish faith and we, non-Catholics had our foundation in the Catholic faith and we are called denominations because of that foundation then the Catholic faith having its foundations in the Jewish faith would mean the same thing, Its a denomination.

Semantics…seemingly to justify ‘denominations’, or being used as an ad hominem statement.

 

[rinnie]

A few posts back Rinnie said that the Church is the PERSON of Christ, that the Catholic Church is the Second Person of the Trinity and that she has always existed from all eternity which as I have pointed out to her makes the Church God. I have heard something alone those lines before from some one who leaned a lot into New Age belief.

Is Jesus Christ the second person in the Trinity? Yes or No?

Did Jesus Christ always exist? Who is Jesus, Is he the CC? Is he the second person of the Trinity?

Is Jesus Christ the Son of God? Is Jesus Christ a part of the Divinity of God which like the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning of time?

Do you deny this? Yes or No? You wanna play hard ball. game on. lets play!!

Did God speak to us most clearly in Jesus?

Did he send his OWN SON, the ETERNAL WORD, who was in the beginning WITH GOD and who WAS GOD to come among us? YES OR NO!!

So again is Jesus Christ the second person in the Trinity, Is the CC Jesus Christ? Is it not by the Power of the Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ became Man? Is it not by the Power of the Holy Spirit that we are led in the CC today by the Mystical Church on earth the same way we were led by the Power of the Holy Spirit in the Human Person in Christ while he was here on earth. yes or no?

 

[rev_kevin]

rev kevin,

There is no ‘Catholic’ religion. Catholics are Christians. Catholic is an adjective derived from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”.

---

u·ni·ver·sal (yn-vûrsl)
adj.

1. Of, relating to, extending to, or affecting the entire world or all within the world; worldwide: “This discovery of literature has as yet only partially penetrated the universal consciousness” (Ellen Key).
2. Including, relating to, or affecting all members of the class or group under consideration: the universal skepticism of philosophers. See Synonyms at general.
3. Applicable or common to all purposes, conditions, or situations: a universal remedy.
4. Of or relating to the universe or cosmos; cosmic.
5. Knowledgeable about or constituting all or many subjects; comprehensively broad.
6. Adapted or adjustable to many sizes or mechanical uses.
7. Logic Encompassing all of the members of a class or group. Used of a proposition.
   n.
8. Logic
   a. A universal proposition.
   b. A general or abstract concept or term considered absolute or axiomatic.
9. A general or widely held principle, concept, or notion.
10. A trait or pattern of behavior characteristic of all the members of a particular culture or of all humans.

Christanity is universal. Christianity is world wide. Christianity is all denominations.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

u·ni·ver·sal (yn-vûrsl)
adj.

1. Of, relating to, extending to, or affecting the entire world or all within the world; worldwide: “This discovery of literature has as yet only partially penetrated the universal consciousness” (Ellen Key).
2. Including, relating to, or affecting all members of the class or group under consideration: the universal skepticism of philosophers. See Synonyms at general.
3. Applicable or common to all purposes, conditions, or situations: a universal remedy.
4. Of or relating to the universe or cosmos; cosmic.
5. Knowledgeable about or constituting all or many subjects; comprehensively broad.
6. Adapted or adjustable to many sizes or mechanical uses.
7. Logic Encompassing all of the members of a class or group. Used of a proposition.
   n.
8. Logic
   a. A universal proposition.
   b. A general or abstract concept or term considered absolute or axiomatic.
9. A general or widely held principle, concept, or notion.
10. A trait or pattern of behavior characteristic of all the members of a particular culture or of all humans.

Christanity is universal. Christianity is world wide. Christianity is all denominations.

When Christ built His Church, there was one Church. The early Church was one and this is evident in the Bible by the letters from Paul stating for everyone to be of the same mind and judgment. I provided scriptures using the Greek terms Catholic was derived from. St. Ignatius wrote the term approximately the same time that St. John was authoring Revelation. Denominations arose since the reformation and all came through the one ‘universal’ Church, also known as the Catholic Church. Even secular history establishes this.

It really appears that you’ve decided to rely on semantics to maintain any divided present???

 

[rinnie]

People please. Although I do thank those of who who say kind things about me, may I please remind you this thread is not about Rev. Kevin someone who was raised a Catholic and became Baptist. This thread is about Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church.

You know what Rev Kev, lets put the cards on the table. Who started the Catholic Church? Jesus Christ, Yes by the Power of the Holy Spirit and by his Father God the Father he was sent here to become the eternal word!

Why? Simple because like Jesus told us the Son has come to glorify the Father, just like the Father will glorify the Son.

There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit 3 person in One divinity God.

We could not come to God ourself God dwells in unapprochable light ( 1 Tim 6:16) But God wants us to know him, that is why he sent his Son. He chose to become Human so we could relate to him through the Son.

Keep studying my friend!

 

[rev_kevin]

You know what Rev Kev, lets put the cards on the table. Who started the Catholic Church? Jesus Christ, Yes by the Power of the Holy Spirit and by his Father God the Father he was sent here to become the eternal word!

Why? Simple because like Jesus told us the Son has come to glorify the Father, just like the Father will glorify the Son.

There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit 3 person in One divinity God.

We could not come to God ourself God dwells in unapprochable light ( 1 Tim 6:16) But God wants us to know him, that is why he sent his Son. He chose to become Human so we could relate to him through the Son.

Keep studying my friend!

The word Catholic was not used nor was it a religion during the time before, during and some time after Jesus. It was called the CHURCH which is a body of believers in Chirst, no more, no less.

Why? Simple because like Jesus told us the Son has come to glorify the Father, just like the Father will glorify the Son.
( 1 Tim 6:16) But God wants us to know him, that is why he sent his Son. He chose to become Human so we could relate to him through the Son.
There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit 3 person in One divinity God.
Christians of almost all demoninations believe this. This don’t mean Jesus started the Catholic Church.