Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?

[JustaServant]

*Why? In the CC you would have been baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The Bible says there is only one baptism.

So why rev kevin?

*

Interesting.
If RK was raised Protestant the Catholic Church would have accepted his Baptism.
But being raised Catholic, his Baptist church requires him to be re-Baptized.
Shouldn’t this set off alarm bells?

 

[JustaServant]

And we are baptized in the same way through the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Before I was born was I Catholic? NO. My parents were but they had to proclaim me Catholic before I became Catholic, correct? YES. I was Catholic because as a child I had no choice, no say so but to be Catholic because of my parents. If I said I wanted to be another religion they would have punished me in some way. So its kind of like being in a State Religion but lets call it a Parent Religion. Then as I got older and was able to make up my own mind, like the Reformation.

Ok Christ is not the Church but the body and as a believer, I am a part of his body therefore I am a part of his church.

Yes it is relevant to the topic becuase I gave you the reason why there was only the Catholic Church.

I believe the Catholic Church is fallible not infallible. Its run by man and man is fallible.

Man is fallible, thats why.

I don’t go by the canon. Thats a Catholic thing written by man not by God.

Rev, you seem like a very sincere person. And beleive me when I say this:
I have been where you are.
I was raised Catholic, left for twenty years, spent ten as a Baptist minister, returned to the Catholic Church.
It’s not an easy thing to admit (especially at our stage of the game, being a minister), that many things do not make sense.
Instead of fighting it, which I did as well, I encourage you to read, READ, READ.
It’s said that ‘knowledge can be a dangerous thing’. That is true to an extent. But once that knowledge is instilled into your mind and soul, it cannot be easily removed.

 

[rev_kevin]

*Why? In the CC you would have been baptised in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

The Bible says there is only one baptism.

So why rev kevin?

*

Because I wanted to publicly profess Christ. Although my first Baptism is valid, I did not make the dicesssion to be Baptized then.

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev, you seem like a very sincere person. And beleive me when I say this:
I have been where you are.
I was raised Catholic, left for twenty years, spent ten as a Baptist minister, returned to the Catholic Church.
It’s not an easy thing to admit (especially at our stage of the game, being a minister), that many things do not make sense.
Instead of fighting it, which I did as well, I encourage you to read, READ, READ.
It’s said that ‘knowledge can be a dangerous thing’. That is true to an extent. But once that knowledge is instilled into your mind and soul, it cannot be easily removed.

I’ll take your advice.

 

[rev_kevin]

Interesting.
If RK was raised Protestant the Catholic Church would have accepted his Baptism.
But being raised Catholic, his Baptist church requires him to be re-Baptized.
Shouldn’t this set off alarm bells?

They did not REQUIRE me to rebaptized. Read my post 530.

 

[rev_kevin]

Dear Rev Kev.

This is something that you have to remember. What is the True Catholic Church.

I remember what the Pope said once and please take a whole week to think about this, and let me know if you can agree with this. I believe with alot of prayer and thinking you will see this part for sure.

The True Church is one that has ALL of the Sacraments.

If you are in a Church that has SOME of the Sacraments you are in a Church that has some of the truth. But we need the fulness of the truth to save us.

If your CHurch has all of the Sacraments, you are in the right Church. Because it is CHrist that is working through the Sacraments now that can save us.

So remember while the Church is revealed to us in many many ways, It is the power of the Holy Spirit working through the Sacraments that give us forgiveness for sins, Baptsim. the Eucharist all that is needed for eternal life in Christ. Jesus Christ is alive thru the sacraments thru the Church just as he was human he is Divine.

I’ll think about it and let you know.

 

[rev_kevin]

Peter and Paul are not the founders of the Catholic Church in union with Rome. Were you just kidding? At any rate, I want to hear what you believe, not what we, here at CAF believe, regarding who you believe is the founder of the CC, and when said founder founded the CC? I guess I will just keep asking until you tell me otherwise…

I have given it to you already. You won’t accept it.

 

[joe370]

I have given it to you already. You won’t accept it.

Perhaps I overlooked it. Could you repeat it please; give me the name of the man or men that founded the Catholic church AND WHEN??? Thanks…

 

[rev_kevin]

Well not according to your defintion.

 

[rev_kevin]

perhaps i overlooked it.

You commented on it so you did not overlook it.

 

[joe370]

You commented on it so you did not overlook it.

I am asking kindly, as a brother in Christ, for you to repeat it. Please give me the name. This will be my last attempt. I won’t bother you anymore after this post.

 

[psychiatrist]

To deny the Catholic Church is to say that Christians had it totally wrong for 1600 years until “Protestants” came along. That would be that all the disciples, all the popes, all the saints etc… were wrong. Which of course is lunacy.

Anyone who studies history with an open mind will see that the Catholic Church is Jesus’ church.

 

[joe370]

To deny the Catholic Church is to say that Christians had it totally wrong for 1600 years until “Protestants” came along. That would be that all the disciples, all the popes, all the saints etc… were wrong. Which of course is lunacy.

Anyone who studies history with an open mind will see that the Catholic Church is Jesus’ church. It really does take a special breed of stupid to leave the Catholic Church and to become a “Baptist”, “Evangelical” or whatever else they are called nowadays.

I don’t think that sort of rudeness is necessary…

 

[psychiatrist]

Sorry, I edited it. I get a little fired up sometimes when I get pulled into these debates. Apologies to anyone offended.

 

[JustaServant]

I’ll take your advice.

Rev.,
In order to understand the ancient world, we have to step out of our comfort zones and walk in their shoes.
Many times that means accepting things our age rejects. Other times we can see how fragile our ‘modern’ society is. Without our gagets and toys, we are no different than they were. Even in parts of the world today family structure is the bedrock of the culture. Things like covenants still exist in what we so arrogantly call the ‘third world’. African and native American tribes had no written language, yet they were steeped in the history of thier culture far more than our so-called ‘enlightened’ society.
I say all this because I suspect you are looking at these ancient people, as I did, through 21st century western eyes. That is a grave error.
Because we are far from being superior.
Was the Church organized in the 1st century? A simple reading of the works of the ECF reveals they indeed were. It was embryonic, yet that culture and time demanded organization. That’s the way the ancient world was.
Not everything was ‘on paper’. It was timely and sometimes expensive to do that.
It was a society far more steeped in oral tradition, and that included pagan societies as well.
They had great auditory skills in those days. Communication was by listening. Even when something was put on paper. it was read ALOUD. Reading to oneself was unknown. That did not mean they were unintelligent. Literacy and intelligence are not the same.
Was the early Church caotic? Not at all.
Hierarchy was a way of life. in fact it was expected.

 

[PJM]

=benedictus2;7489936]I am starting this thread due to an invitation I extended to Rev Kevin to discuss his claim Jesus did not start the Catholic Church.

To avoid derailing the thread, please avoid discussions on Mary, Eucharist, Confession and other Catholic doctrines that have no bearing on the topic unless you can establish relevance.

It is important to keep to this so that we can have a truly fruitful discussion. We did that on the question of “Is Peter the Rock” and we got somewhere in a fairly short time by keeping the topic in mind.

To keep the opening argument short, I say Jesus started the Catholic Church based on Matthew 16:18, John 21 and Acts.
**
Peace and Joy of Christ to anyone who participates in the discussion and to all those who visit this thread!**

Having had a number of ocassions to discus the Singular truth with Rev. Kevin, and having litle or no effect on his personal opinions, I nevertheless enter into this dialog with a question.

IF Christ did not start the Catholic Church; then who did? When? and How?

Surely there must exist somewhere a bit of evidene to suport such a position.

God Bless,
Pat

 

[joe370]

You commented on it so you did not overlook it.

Rev. Kevin, this is the closest you came to answering the following question: please give me the name of the man or men that founded the CC in communion with Rome, and when:

The Acts of the Apostles claims that the Jewish Christian couple Prescilla and Aquila had recently come from Rome to Corinth when, in about the year 50, Paul reached Corinth, indicating that Christianity in Rome had preceded Paul.

Are you suggesting that the Jewish Christian couple Prescilla and Aquila are the founders of the CC in communion with Rome?

 

[rinnie]

I’ll think about it and let you know.

Thats all I can ask.

 

[rinnie]

Christ started a Church. That Church came to be known as the Catholic Church, or The Church of Christ. Those who are not in Communion with the Catholic Church are not members of the Church Christ started.

That simple. So, why don’t you join us ?

Oh My!! Where did you ever get this teaching? Not from the Pope thats for sure.

The CCC 838 sure is in direct conflict with this.According to the CCC all those who believe in Christ and have been properly baptised are put in a certain although (name removed by moderator)ERECT, COMMUNION with the CC.

 

[rinnie]

Yes I am. I am Baptized Catholic and Baptized as Baptist.

Rev Kev, I am only asking because I do not know. Now according to the RCC if someone is baptised he is Baptised in the name of the Trinity. Now when you were baptised in the Baptist Church were you baptised in the same way.

Now if so, did they know that you were baptised in the CC.

The reason again I am asking is if you were baptised in the Baptist Church first, and it was in the name of the Trinity, the RCC recognizes that Baptism.

My Husband was baptised in the Protestant Church but as long as it was in the name of the Trinity he did not have to be re- baptised. We believe in One baptism for the forgiveness of sins. And we believe there is only one way, the F.S.HS.

The CC reasoning for this is you can only be Baptised (re-born in Christ once). What is the baptist reasoning in this? Thanks.

In our profession of faith it states we acknowledge ONE BAPTISM for the forgiveness of Sins.