Hi, Mikeoffaith,
I never said I was an expert on Luther’s teachings, but, then, this is not a Lutheran site. Your kowledge of Catholicism seems quite skewed, too - but, you’re a guest so, let’s just call it a draw. I will, however, stand by what I said:
1.) Luther agreed with Baptism, and the Trinity is invoked.
2.) Disregarded the other six Sacraments (the memorial service is not the Eucharist)
3.) Luther denied the Primacy of Peter,
4.) Luther denied that the Holy Spirit guides the Catholic Church so that it does not TEACH error in matter of faith or morals.
So, you tell me, what did Luther maintain (unchanged) from what the Catholic Church teaches?
I find it curious that a basic agreement can not be achieved on definitions. Usually agreeing on terms to be used is the initial step in a dialogue. After reading your sequential posts, it appears that you are claiming to differ from everyone on what things mean. But, you have yet to actually reduce to writing what your definition is.
For example, in Matt 16 we read where Christ had the Apostles with Him and was asking them questions. They were doing quite badly at correctly responding - until God the Father gave Peter the answer: “Thou are the Christ! The Son of the Living God!” Notice the other 11 were speechless and probably were trying to understand Peter’s response when Christ says that this answer did not come from human understanding - but from God. You know what happens next … Christ (The Cornerstone) FOUNDS His Church on Peter (that would make Peter the FOUNDATION) … and then gives Peter the authority to bind and lose AND gives Peter the Keys to the Kingdom as a mark of this authority. Note also that Christ did not have eleven other sets of keys. This is not an oversight - and this is one example of Peter’s Primacy over the other Apostles.
What happens next has always struck me as more remarkable. Here is the FOUNDATION chiding Christ for talking about His upcoming death in Jerusalem - and Christ calls His brand new leader (Pope) a devil! Of course, Christ knew this was going to happen - He is God. But, don’t think for one moment that the leaders of the Chruch are sinless, always give good example and lead saintly lives. Most scored pretty high in these areas - but there were a few notable exceptions.
As I see it, Luther had real problems with his vision of the Christ’s Church and what he saw going on in Rome when he visited the Eternal City. While one can not reconcile sin and virtue in the same sentence - the issue is that for almost 1600 the Catholic Church was guided by the Holy Spirit so that it:
1.) Established the Canon of Holy Scripture - you use the abridged version
2.) Established true doctrine from the false teachers that had beset the Early Church - so that today, the Trinity of Persons and the Unity of God is taught, Christ is True God and True Man, Christ has two natures and One Person, Christ FOUNDED HIS CHURCH on Peter - and there is a direct line from Peter to Benedict XVI today, Mary is the Mother of God, Mary was conceived without original sin and is ever virgin.
The idea that the Church suddenly took form in the 16th Century is to deny 1600 years of verifiable history. Christ did not come back and revoke the role of the Catholic Church and give it to Luther, or Calvin, or Henry VIII. God does not revoke his calling.
This is more of an outline of some major Catholic beliefs - but, they all have their origin in Christ FOUNDING His Church on Peter - not on Luther 1600 years after the fact. This would be a good topic to discuss.
God bless
When statements are made like “Luther dropped virtually everything that Rome taught sans Mary,” pretty much tells me there isn’t whole lot that you know about the Lutheran Church or Luther’s teaching other than what other Roman Catholics have taught. I like that you say Luther disagreed with 6 out of the 7 sacraments. It would be interesting to hear you understanding of that, but I fear if we go down this road we are getting far off topic.
The fact of whether or not Jesus founded the Catholic Church and my understanding of what that means and entails is different from your understanding of what that means.