Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?

[rev_kevin]

continued
The Church
The Divine Origin of the Church
The Church is the Mystical Body of Jesus Christ. (Sent. certa.)
The Church was founded by the God-Man Jesus Christ. (De fide.)

The Constitution of the Church
Christ founded the Church in order to continue His work of redemption for all time. (De fide.)
By reason of her purpose and the means she uses to effect it the Church is a supernatural spiritual society. (Sent. certa.)
The Church is a perfect society. (Sent. certa.)
Christ gave His Church an hierarchial constitution. (De fide.)
The powers bestowed on the Apostles have descended to the bishops. (De fide.)
Christ appointed the Apostle Peter to be the first of all the Apostles and to be the visible head of the whole Church, by appointing him immediately and personally to the primacy of jurisdiction. (De fide.)
According to Christ’s ordinance, Peter is to have successors in his Primacy over the whole Church and for all time. (De fide.)
The successors of Peter in the Primacy are the bishops of Rome. (De fide.)
The Pope possesses full and supreme power of jurisdiction over the whole Church, not merely in matters of faith and morals, but also in Church discipline and in the government of the Church. (De fide.)
The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra. (De fide.)
By virtue of Divine Right the bishops possess an ordinary power of government over their dioceses. (De fide.)
The individual bishop receives his pastoral power immediately from the Pope. (Sent. probabilior.)

The Internal Constitution of the Church
Christ founded the Church. (De fide.)
Christ is the Head of the Church. (De fide.)
Our Redeemer Himself conserves with divine power the society founded by Him, the Church. (Pius XII)
Christ is the Divine Redeemer of His Body, the Church. (Pius XII.)
The Holy Ghost is the Soul of the Church. (Sent. communis.)

The Properties or Essential Attributes of the Church
The Church is indefectible, that is, she remains and will remain the Institution of Salvation, founded by Christ, until the end of the world. (Sent. certa.)
In the final decision on doctrines concerning faith and morals the Church is infallible. (De fide.)
The primary object of the Infallibility is the formally revealed truths of Christian Doctrine concerning faith and morals. (De fide.)
The secondary object of the Infallibility is truths of the Christian teaching on faith and morals, which are not formally revealed, but which are closely connected with the teaching of Revelation. (Sent. certa.)
The Pope is infallible when he speaks ex cathedra. (De fide.)
The totality of the Bishops is infallible, when they, either assembled in general council or scattered over the earth, propose a teaching of faith or morals as one to be held by all the faithful. (De fide.)
The Church founded by Christ is an external visible commonwealth. (Sent. certa.)
The Church founded by Christ is unique and one. (De fide.)
The Church founded by Christ is holy. (De fide.)
Not only those members who are holy but the sinners also belong to the Church. (Sent. certa.)
The Church founded by Christ is catholic. (De fide.)
The Church founded by Christ is apostolic. (De fide.)

The Necessity of the Church
The members of the Church are those who have validly received the Sacrament of Baptism and who are not separated from the unity of the confession of the Faith, and from the unity of the lawful communion of the Church. (Sent. certa.)
Membership of the Church is necessary for all men for salvation. (De fide.)

The Communion of Saints
The members of the Kingdom of God on earth and in the other world sanctified by the redeeming grace of Christ are united in a common supernatural life with the Head of the Church and with one another. (Sent. certa.)
By intercessory prayer the Faithful on earth can procure gifts from God for one another. (Sent. certa.)
By good works performed in the state of grace the Faithful on earth can merit de congruo gifts from God. (Sent. probabilis.)
The faithful on earth can, by their good works performed in the state of grace, render atonement for one another. (Sent. cert.)
It is permissible and profitable to venerate the Saints in Heaven, and to invoke their intercession. (De fide.)
It is permissible and profitable to venerate the relics of the Saints. (De fide.)
It is permissible and profitable to venerate images of the Saints. (De fide.)
The living Faithful can come to the assistance of the Souls in Purgatory by their intercessions (suffrages). (De fide.)
The Saints in Heaven also can come to the help of the Souls in Purgatory by their intercession. (Sent. communis.)
The Souls in Purgatory can intercede for other members of the Mystical Body. (Sent. probabilis.)
Suffrages are of no profit to the damned in Hell as they do not belong to the Mystical Body of Christ. (Sent. communis.)

 

[rev_kevin]

continued
The Sacraments
The Nature of the Sacraments
The Sacraments of the New Covenant are effective signs of grace instituted by Christ.
The outward sign of the sacraments is composed of two essential parts, namely, thing and word (res et verbum or elementum et verbum). (Sent. fidei proxima.)
The Efficacy and the Effects of the Sacraments
The Sacraments of the New Covenant contain the grace which they signify, and bestow it on those who do not hinder it. (De fide.)
The Sacraments work ex opere operato. (De fide.)
All the Sacraments of the New Covenant confer sanctifying grace on the receivers. (De fide.)
Each individual sacrament confers a specific sacramental grace. (Sent. communis.)
Three Sacraments, Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders, imprint a character, that is, an indelible spiritual mark, and for this reason cannot be repeated. (De fide.)
The Sacramental Character is a spiritual mark imprinted on the soul. (De fide.)
The Sacramental Character confers the full power for the performance of acts of Christian Worship. (Sent. communis.)
The Sacramental Character continues at least until the death of its bearer. (De fide.)
The Institution and the Seven-fold Nature of the Sacraments
All the Sacraments of the New Covenant were instituted by Jesus Christ. (De fide.)
Christ instituted all the Sacraments immediately and personally. (Sent. certa.)
Christ fixed the substance of the Sacraments. The Church has no power to alter them. (Sent. certa.)
There are Seven Sacraments of the New Law. (De fide.)
God can communicate grace even without the Sacraments. (Sent. certa.)
The Sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for the salvation of mankind. (De fide.)
The Minister and the Recipient of the Sacraments
The primary minister of the Sacraments is the God-Man Jesus Christ. (Sent. certa.)
The secondary minister of the Sacrament is man in the wayfaring state. (Sent. communis).
The validity and efficacy of the Sacrament is independent of the minister’s orthodoxy and state of grace.
For the valid dispensing of the Sacraments it is necessary that the minister accomplish the Sacramental Sign in the proper manner. (De fide.)
The minister must further have the intention at least of doing what the Church does. (De fide.)
Only a person in the wayfaring state can validly receive a Sacrament. (Sent. communis.)
Excepting the Sacrament of Penance, neither orthodox belief nor moral worthiness is necessary for the validity of the Sacrament, on the part of the recipient. (Sent. communis.)
For the validity of the Sacraments in the case of adult recipients the intention of recieving the Sacrament is necessary. (Sent. certa.)
In the case of adult recipients moral worthiness is necessary for the worthy or fruitful reception of the Sacraments. (De fide.)
The Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation and Holy Orders[1], when they are received validly but unworthily, revive after the removal of the moral indisposition, that is, the sacramental grace is conferred subsequently. (Sent. communis.)

Pre-Christian Sacraments and the Sacramentals
The Old Testament Sacraments wrought, ex opere operato, not grace, but merely an external lawful purity. (Sent. certa.)

The Seven Sacraments
The Sacrament of Baptism
Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ. (De fide.)
The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water. (De fide.)
The materia proxima of the Sacrament of Baptism is the ablution, by physical contact, of the body with water. (Sent. certa.)
The form of Baptism consists in the words of the minister which accompany it and more closely determine it.
Baptism confers the grace of justification. (De fide.)
Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal. (De fide.)
Eve if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot be repeated. (De fide.)
Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary for all men without exception, for salvation. (De fide.)
Baptism can be validily administered by anyone. (De fide.)
Baptism can be received by any person in the wayfaring state who is not already baptised. (De fide.)
The Baptism of young children is valid and licit. (De fide.)

The Sacrament of Confirmation
Confirmation is a true Sacrament properly so-called. (De fide.)
The form of Confirmation consists in the words which the minister speaks when he imposes his hands on the recipient and anoints his forehead. (Sent. communis.)
As a Sacrament of the living, Confirmation effects (per se) an increase of Sanctifying Grace. (Sent. certa.)
The specific operation of Confirmation is the perfection of Baptismal Grace. (Sent. communis.)
Confirmation imprints on the soul an indelible spiritual mark, and for this reason, cannot be repeated. (De fide.)
A baptised person can achieve eternal salvation even without Confirmation. (Sent. fidei proxima.)
The ordinary minister of Confirmation is the Bishop alone. (De fide.)
The extraordinary minister of Confirmation is a priest on whom this full power is conferred by the common law or by a special apostolic indult. (Sent. certa.)
Confirmation can be received by any baptised person who is not already confirmated. (Sent. certa.)
The repetition of Confirmation is invalid and grievously sinful.

 

[rev_kevin]

continued
The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
The Fact of the Real Presence of Christ
The Body and Blood of Jesus Christ are truly, really and substantially present in the Eucharist. (De fide.)

The Effecting of Christ’s Real Presence, or the Transubstantiation
Christ becomes present in the Sacrament of the Altar by the transformation of the whole substance of the bread into His Body and the whole substance of the wine into His Blood. (De fide.)
The Accidents of bread and wine continue after the change of the substance. (De fide.)
The Sacramental Accidents retain their physical reality after the change of the substance. (Sent. certa.)
The Sacramental Accidents continue without a subject in which to inhere. (Sent. certa.)

Nature and Manner of the Real Presence of Christ
The Body and the Blood of Christ together with His Soul and HIs Divinity and therefore the Whole Christ are truly present in the Eucharist (De fide.)
The Whole Christ is present under each of the two Species. (De fide.)
When either consecrated species is divided the Whole Christ is present in each part of the species. (De fide.)
After the Consecration has been completed the Body and Blood are permanently present in the Eucharist. (De fide.)
The Worship of Adoration (latria) must be given to Christ present in the Eucharist. (De fide.)

The Blessed Eucharist and Human Reason
The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a mystery of Faith. (Sent. certa.)

The Eucharist as Sacrament
The Eucharist is a true Sacrament instituted by Christ. (De fide.)
The matter for the consummation of the Eucharist is bread and wine. (De fide.)
The form of the Eucharist consists in Christ’s Words of institution, uttered at the Consecration. (Sent. certa.)
The Chief fruit of the Eucharist is an intrinsic union of the recipient with Christ. (Sent. certa.)
The Eucharist, as food for the soul, preserves and increases the supernatural life of the soul. (Sent. certa. )
The Eucharist is a pledge of heavenly bliss and of the future resurrection of the body. (Sent. certa.)
For children before the age of reason the reception of the Eucharist is not necessary for salvation. (De fide.)
For adults the reception of the Eucharist is necessary for salvation with the necessity of precept (necessitate praecepti). (Sent. certa.)
Communion under two forms is not necessary for any individual member of the Faithful, either by reason of Divine precept or as a means of salvation. (De fide.)
The power of consecration resides in a validly consecrated priest only. (De fide.)
The ordinary minister of the Eucharist is the priest; the extraordinary minister is the deacon (with permission of the local Ordinary or of the parish priest for some weighty reason). CIC 845
The Sacrament of the Eucharist can be validly received by every baptised person in the wayfaring state, including young children. (De fide.) D 933
For the worthy reception of the Eucharist the state of grace as well as the proper and pious disposition are necessary. (De fide as regards the state of

 

[rev_kevin]

continued
grace.)

The Eucharist as Sacrifice
The Reality of the Sacrifice of the Mass
The Holy Mass is a true and proper Sacrifice. (De fide.)

The Nature of the Sacrifice of the Mass
In the Sacrifice of the Mass, Christ’s Sacrifice on the Cross is made present, its memory is celebrated, and its saving power is applied. (De fide.)
In the Sacrifice of the Mass and in the Sacrifice of the Cross the Sacrificial Gift and the Primary Sancrificing Priest are identical; only the nature and mode of the offering are different. (De fide.)
The essential Sacrificial Action consists in the Transsubstantiation alone. (Sent. communis.)

The Effects and Efficacy of the Sacrifice of the Mass
The Sacrifice of the Mass is not merely a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving, but also a sacrifice of expiation and impetration. (De fide.)

The Church’s Power to Forgive Sins
The Existence of the Church’s Power to Forgive Sins
The Church has received from Christ the power of remitting sins committed after Baptism. (De fide.)

The Properties of the Church’s to Forgive Sins
By the Church’s Absolution sins are truly and immediately remitted. (De fide.)
The Church’s power to forgive sins extends to all sin without exception. (De fide.)
The exercise of the Church’s power to forgive sins is a judicial act. (De fide.)

 

[rev_kevin]

continued
The Church’s Forgiveness of Sins as Sacrament
The Existence of the Church’s Power to Forgive Sins
The forgiveness of sins which takes place in the Tribunal of Penance is a true and proper Sacrament, which is distinct from the Sacrament of Baptism. (De fide.)
Perfect contrition bestows the grace of justification on the mortal sinner even before the actual reception of the Sacrament of Penance. (Sent. fidei proxima.)
Extra-sacramental justification is effected by perfect sorrow only when it is associated with the desire for the Sacrament (votum sacramenti). (De fide.)
Contrition springing from the motive of fear is a morally good and supernatural act. (De fide.)
Imperfect contrition suffices for the forgiveness of sins in the Sacrament of Penance. (Sent. communis.)
The Sacramental confession of sins is ordained by God and is necessary for salvation. (De fide.)
By virtue of Divine ordinance all grievous sins(mortal, serious) according to kind and number, as well as those cirumstances which alter their nature, are subject to the obligation of confession. (De fide.)
The confession of venial sins is not necessary but is permitted and is useful. (De fide.)
Those sins which are already forgiven directly by the Church’s Power of the Keys are a sufficient object of confession. (Sent. certa.) CIC 902.
All temporal punishments for sin are not always remitted by God with the guilt of sin and the eternal punishment. (De fide.)
The priest has the right and the duty, according to the nature of the sins and the ability of the penitent, to impose salutary and appropriate works of satisfaction. (De fide.)
Extra-sacramental penitential works, such as the performance of voluntary penitential practices and the patient bearing of trials sent by God, possess satisfactory value. (De fide.)
The form of the Sacrament of Penance consists in the words of Absolution. (De fide.) D896 Cf. 699
Absolution, in association with the acts of the penitent, effects the forgiveness of sins. (De fide.)

The Effects of the Sacrament of Penance and its Necessity
The principal effect of the Sacrament of Penance is the reconciliation of the sinner with God. (De fide.)
The merits due to good works performed in the state of grace which have been rendered null by grievous sins, that is, have been made inefficacious, revive. (Sent. communis.)
The Sacrament of Penance is necessary for salvation to those who, after Baptism, fall into grievous sin. (De fide.)

The Minister and the Recipient of the Sacrament of Penance
The sole possessors of the Church’s Power of Absolution are the bishops and priests. (De fide.)
Absolution given by deacons, clerics of lower rank, and laymen is not Sacramental Absolution. (De fide.)
The Sacrament of Penance can be received by any baptised person, who, after Baptism, has commited a grievous or venial sin. (De fide.) D911, 917

 

[rev_kevin]

continued
Appendix
The Doctrine of Indulgences
The Church possesses the power to grant Indulgences. (De fide.)
The source of Indulgences is the Church’s treasury of satisfaction which consists of superabundant satisfactions of Christ and of the Saints. (Sent. certa.)
The use of INdulgences is useful and salutary to the Faithful. (De fide.) D989,998

The Sacrament of Extreme Unction
Extreme Unction is a true and proper Sacrament instituted by Christ. (De fide.)
The remote matter of Extreme Unction is oil. (De fide.)
The form consists in the prayer of the priest for the sick person which accompanies the anointing. (De fide.)
Extreme Unction gives the sick person sanctifying grace in order to arouse and strengthen him. (De fide.)
Extreme Unction effects the remission of grievous sins still remaining and of venial sins. (De fide.)
Extreme Unction sometimes effects the restoration of bodily health, if this be of spiritual advantage. (De fide.) D909
Extreme Unction is not of itself (per se) necessary for salvation. (Sent. certa.) CIC 944.
Only bishops and priests can validly administer Extreme Unction. (De fide.)
Extreme Unction can be received only by the Faithful who are seriously ill. (De fide.) D910

The Sacrament of Holy Order (Ordo)
Holy Order is a true and proper Sacrament which was instituted by Christ. (De fide.)
The four Minor Orders and the Subdiaconate are not Sacraments but merely Sacramentals. (Sent. Communior.)
The consecration of priests is a Sacrament. (De fide.)
The consecration of a Bishop is a Sacrament. (Sent. certa.)
Bishops are superior to priests. (De fide.)
The Order of Diaconate is a Sacrament. (Sent. certa.)
The matter of the Orders of Diaconate, Priesthood, and Episcopate is the imposition of hands alone. (Sent. fidei proxima).
The handing over (traditio) of the instruments is not necessary for the validity of the consecration of Deacons, Priests, and Bishops. (Sent. fidei proxima.)
The form of the Order of Deacon, Priest, and Bishop consists solely in the words which more closely determine the imposition of the hands. (Sent. fidei proxima.)
The Sacrament of Order confers sanctifying grace on the recipient. (De fide.) Cf. D843a, 959,964.
The Sacrament of Order imprints a character on the recipient. (De fide.)
The Sacrament of Order confers a permanent spiritual power on the recipient. (De fide.) Cf. D960 et seq.
The ordinary dispenser of all grades of Order, both the sacramental and the non-sacramental, is the validly consecrated bishop alone. (De fide.)
The extraordinary dispenser of the four Minor Orders and of the Order of the Subdiaconate is the presbyter. (Sent. certa.)
The Sacrament of Order can be validly received by a baptised person of the male sex only. (Sent. certa.) CIC 968, Par. 1.

 

[tqualey]

Wow! Rev Kev,

You must have a Super Copy 'n Paste feature on your keyboard! It certainly works well.

I am sure there were some more, so if I interrupted, just accept my apology and continue with your cutting and pasting away. Oh, but be sure to add some of your own comments to this impressive listing you have provided.

God bless

continued
The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist
The Fact of the Real Presence of Christ
The Body and Blood of Jesus Christ are truly, really and substantially present in the Eucharist. (De fide.)

The Effecting of Christ’s Real Presence, or the Transubstantiation
Christ becomes present in the Sacrament of the Altar by the transformation of the whole substance of the bread into His Body and the whole substance of the wine into His Blood. (De fide.)
The Accidents of bread and wine continue after the change of the substance. (De fide.)
The Sacramental Accidents retain their physical reality after the change of the substance. (Sent. certa.)
The Sacramental Accidents continue without a subject in which to inhere. (Sent. certa.)

Nature and Manner of the Real Presence of Christ
The Body and the Blood of Christ together with His Soul and HIs Divinity and therefore the Whole Christ are truly present in the Eucharist (De fide.)
The Whole Christ is present under each of the two Species. (De fide.)
When either consecrated species is divided the Whole Christ is present in each part of the species. (De fide.)
After the Consecration has been completed the Body and Blood are permanently present in the Eucharist. (De fide.)
The Worship of Adoration (latria) must be given to Christ present in the Eucharist. (De fide.)

The Blessed Eucharist and Human Reason
The Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist is a mystery of Faith. (Sent. certa.)

The Eucharist as Sacrament
The Eucharist is a true Sacrament instituted by Christ. (De fide.)
The matter for the consummation of the Eucharist is bread and wine. (De fide.)
The form of the Eucharist consists in Christ’s Words of institution, uttered at the Consecration. (Sent. certa.)
The Chief fruit of the Eucharist is an intrinsic union of the recipient with Christ. (Sent. certa.)
The Eucharist, as food for the soul, preserves and increases the supernatural life of the soul. (Sent. certa. )
The Eucharist is a pledge of heavenly bliss and of the future resurrection of the body. (Sent. certa.)
For children before the age of reason the reception of the Eucharist is not necessary for salvation. (De fide.)
For adults the reception of the Eucharist is necessary for salvation with the necessity of precept (necessitate praecepti). (Sent. certa.)
Communion under two forms is not necessary for any individual member of the Faithful, either by reason of Divine precept or as a means of salvation. (De fide.)
The power of consecration resides in a validly consecrated priest only. (De fide.)
The ordinary minister of the Eucharist is the priest; the extraordinary minister is the deacon (with permission of the local Ordinary or of the parish priest for some weighty reason). CIC 845
The Sacrament of the Eucharist can be validly received by every baptised person in the wayfaring state, including young children. (De fide.) D 933
For the worthy reception of the Eucharist the state of grace as well as the proper and pious disposition are necessary. (De fide as regards the state of

 

[rev_kevin]

continued
The Sacrament of Matrimony
Marriage was not instituted by Man, but by God. (Sent. certa.) D 2225.
Marriage is a true and proper Sacrament instituted by God. (De fide.)
The primary purpose of Marriage is the generation and bringing-up of offspring. The secondary purpose is mutual help and the morally regulated satisfaction of the sex urge. (Sent. certa.) CIC 1013, Par. 1.
The essential properties of Marriage are unity (monogamy) and indissolubility. (Sent. certa.) CIC 1013, Par. 2.
Every valid contract of Marriage between Christians is of itself a sacrament. (Sent. certa.)
From the sacramental contract of marriage emerges the Bond of Marriage, which binds both marriage partners to a lifelong indivisible community of life. (De fide.)
The Sacrament of Matrimony bestows Sanctifying Grace on the contracting parties. (De fide.)
The contracting parties in Matrimony minister the Sacrament each to the other. (Sent. certa.)
The Church possesses the sole and exclusive right to make laws and administer justice in the matrimonial affairs of baptised persons, in so far as these affect the Sacrament. (Sent. certa.) Cf. CIC 1016, 1960.
The Doctrine of God the Consummator
The Doctrine of the Last Things or of the Consummation (Eschatology)
The Eschatology of the Individual Human Being
In the present order of salvation death is a punishment for sin. (De fide.)
All human beings subject to original sin are subject to the law of death. (De fide.) D789
With death the possibility of merit or demerit or conversion ceases. (Sent. certa.)
Immediately after death the particular judgment takes place, in which, by a Divine Sentence of Judgment, the eternal fate of the deceased person is decided. (Sent. fidei proxima.)
The souls of the just which in the moment of death are free from all guilt of sin and punishment for sin, enter into Heaven. (De fide.)
In addition to the essential bliss of Heaven which springs from the immediate Vision of God, there is also an accidental blessedness, which proceeds from the natural knowledge and love of created things. (Sent. communis.)
The bliss of heaven lasts for all eternity. (De fide. )
The degree of perfection of the beatific vision granted to the just is proportioned to each one’s merits. (De fide.)
The souls of those who die in the condition of personal grievous sin enter Hell. (De fide. )
The punishment of Hell lasts for all eternity. (De fide.)
The punishment of the damned is proportioned to each one’s guilt. (Sent. communis.)
The souls of the just which, in the moment of death, are burdened with venial sins or temporal punishment due to sins, enter Purgatory. (De fide.)
The purifying fire will not continue after the General Judgment. (Sent. communis.)

The Eschatology of the Whole of Humanity
At the end of the world Christ will come again in glory to pronounce judgment. (De fide.)
The time of Jesus’ second coming is unknown to men. (Sent. certa.)
All the dead will rise again on the last day with their bodies. (De fide.)
The bodies of the just will be re-modelled and transfigured to the pattern of the risen Christ. (Sent. certa.)
The bodies of the godless will rise again in incorruption and immortality, but they will not be transfigured. (Sent. certa.)
Christ, on His second coming, will judge all men. (De fide. )
The present world will be destroyed on the Last Day. (Sent. certa.)
The present world will be restored on the Last Day. (Sent. certa.)

Extracted from “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Dr Ludwig Ott; Tan Books and Publishers, Inc. 1974.

See the article by EWTN expert, Colin B. Donovan, STL, on Heresy, Schism and Apostacy

Just thought I would post the Catholic Dogma’s for those of us who don’t know what they are.

 

[rev_kevin]

Wow! Rev Kev,

You must have a Super Copy 'n Paste feature on your keyboard! It certainly works well.

I am sure there were some more, so if I interrupted, just accept my apology and continue with your cutting and pasting away. Oh, but be sure to add some of your own comments to this impressive listing you have provided.

God bless

YA it is pretty fast isn’t it
I really don’t have any comments on them. I just posted them for those of us who don’t know the Catholic Dogma’s. I feel this could help us in understanding the Catholic faith and know where you Catholic’s are comming from in the discussions.

Now if there is a certain part you want to discuss, feel free to ask.

 

[Cinette]

*There is TRUTH and SUBSTANCE and DEDICATION and LOVE in the Catholic Church.

Why do think that so many men and women leave everything behind and offer their whole lives to God and His Church?

I often think of the HUGE disservice Luther did to Christianity and mankind. Yet Protestants (a good number) are dedicated and courageous and have a lot to offer. We humans need controversy and pain to keep us on track and focussed on God.


*

 

[benedictus2]

Dear friend Benedictus: It won’t be the first time I have missed something. If my love is misplaced in some regards and falls upon fuzzy things here and there, then I will make sure that I have plenty more to go around to land in the right places. If I place it everywhere I can, it will surely end up in the right places at times, however, I doubt if love can fall in a wrong place. If I can somehow become a loving idiot, I would consider it an accomplishment.

I understand how you feel, however, we cannot account for how other people act. We can do a good deal about how we act. Anyone can act in kind to kindness and that which is agreeable. I think there is merit in not getting sucked into that which is not kind or agreeable.

Your friend,
Sufjon

It’s horses for courses Sufjon. Some need a gentle word, some need a slight knock in the head.

Of course one must exercise discernment and I do that before I reply.

But after a while, after much stalling, much beligerence, much refusal to address issues you realize that only a knock in the head is appropriate.

I must say that there are many more people who fall in the former category than in the latter.

 

[tqualey]

Oooooooooo now, hold on a minute there, Sufjon,

You want in - then get in … just don’t dance around with gratitutious criticism and then bow out. This certainly would not speak well of you - after all … you were concered about our ability to respond respectfully to others. It is your turn to demonstrate what you posted.

So, tell me, did Jesus start the Catholic Church? Surely with the learning you have accomplished by now you have formulated an opinion. I am eagerly awaiting to hear it.

Let me help to get you started. Matthew 16:13-19 sets the stage for why I believe that Christ started the Catholic Church:

**13
When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
14
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16
Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **

The Catholic Chruch was founded on Peter by Christ - and a clear line can be drawn that connects Peter to the current Pope Benedict XVI.

What is your understand of this matter?

God bless

Hi tqualey: Thank you for the note and the kind invitation, but I don’t really have anything to offer in regards to the topic of the thread. I think God loves all of you, regardless of what church he started or did not start. All of you are seeking Him. I am pretty sure He is pleased with that.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[joe370]

YA it is pretty fast isn’t it
I really don’t have any comments on them. I just posted them for those of us who don’t know the Catholic Dogma’s. I feel this could help us in understanding the Catholic faith and know where you Catholic’s are comming from in the discussions.

Now if there is a certain part you want to discuss, feel free to ask.

Kevin, do you feel that this list will better enable those folks, unfamiliar with the catholic faith, to answer the question:

Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?

 

[Sufjon]

Hey brother, I too believe that God loves everyone, however, God did say: I will build my church… and He died for His church. Do you think He built in vain, or do you believe that God wants everyone, (those with knowledge of His church) - to belong to His church?

Hi Joe: I do understand your view and the views of others on this post. I see the reasoning behind what each of you are saying and I understand the conclusions you draw from this reasoning. It would be difficult to properly convey my view on any of that, because my background is so different. I can say that I don’t think any of you are going to hell for trying to be close to God in whatever way you heard His call. Each of you are converging on one point starting from different points. It follows that you are taking different paths to the same place. The strange part about that is that you really don’t have to go anywhere. Remember those pictures they sold in the kiosks at the malls back in the 1990’s where if you stared at them you were supposed to be able to see another picture emerge from the picture? It seemed like you could never find it until you stopped trying so hard. Then it was right there. Of course it was right there all the time.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[tqualey]

Hi, Rev Kev,

That was thoughtful of you. Really. There are so many items from these pages that Lutherans and Baptists believe, too. Truly, this is a heart warming list to see them presented this way.

But, don’t you think it best to stick with the thread as stated by the OP?

Since, as I recall you have said you believe that Christ started the Catholic Church, there really isn’t much more to discuss, eh?

With this fine list of cut 'n paste items, I bet you could start your own thread.

God bless

YA it is pretty fast isn’t it
I really don’t have any comments on them. I just posted them for those of us who don’t know the Catholic Dogma’s. I feel this could help us in understanding the Catholic faith and know where you Catholic’s are comming from in the discussions.

Now if there is a certain part you want to discuss, feel free to ask.

 

[benedictus2]

Christ, on His second coming, will judge all men. (De fide. )
The present world will be destroyed on the Last Day. (Sent. certa.)
The present world will be restored on the Last Day. (Sent. certa.)

Extracted from “Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma” by Dr Ludwig Ott; Tan Books and Publishers, Inc. 1974.

See the article by EWTN expert, Colin B. Donovan, STL, on Heresy, Schism and Apostacy

Just thought I would post the Catholic Dogma’s for those of us who don’t know what they are.

Rev Kevin, may I ask what is the point of listing all the dogmas.

The question is whether Christ cares about dogma.

Unless you can show that Christ does not care about whether Truth is disseminated to His Apostles or not then what is all the point of that?

One thing I always tell people when they think that mush is all that matters is that one thing that we are sure that Christ claimed for Himself is that He is truth.

Another thing that is very clear is that when He promised to send the Holy Spirit, it was to lead the apostles into Truth.

So while He told His Apostles to love one antoher, He was very much concerned with Truth because that is what the Holy Spirit will be sent for.

And do you know why? Because it is only when we have a proper apprehension of Truth can we truly love. Love without truth is just sentimentality.

Just think about those who commit adultery because they “love” the other woman or man.

Dogma has to do with Truth. So Christ cares about dogma. Or He would not have sent His `Holy Spirit.

 

[rev_kevin]

Oooooooooo now, hold on a minute there, Sufjon,

You want in - then get in … just don’t dance around with gratitutious criticism and then bow out. This certainly would not speak well of you - after all … you were concered about our ability to respond respectfully to others. It is your turn to demonstrate what you posted.

So, tell me, did Jesus start the Catholic Church? Surely with the learning you have accomplished by now you have formulated an opinion. I am eagerly awaiting to hear it.

Let me help to get you started. Matthew 16:13-19 sets the stage for why I believe that Christ started the Catholic Church:

**13
When Jesus went into the region of Caesarea Philippi he asked his disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
14
They replied, “Some say John the Baptist, others Elijah, still others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
15
He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
16
Simon Peter said in reply, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
17
Jesus said to him in reply, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.
18
And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.
19
I will give you the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” **

The Catholic Chruch was founded on Peter by Christ - and a clear line can be drawn that connects Peter to the current Pope Benedict XVI.

What is your understand of this matter?

God bless

The “Rock” dialogueIn a dialogue between Jesus and his disciples (Matthew 16:13-20), Jesus asks, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?” The disciples give various answers. When he asks, “Who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answers, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” In turn, Jesus declares Peter to be “blessed” for having recognized Jesus’ true identity and attributes this recognition to a divine revelation. Then Jesus addresses Simon by what seems to have been the nickname “Peter” (Cephas in Aramaic, Petros [rock] in Greek) and says, “On this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.”

A common exegetical interpretation of Peter is provided by Daniel Harrington who suggests that Peter was an unlikely symbol of stability. While he was one of the first disciples called and served as the spokesman for the group, Peter is also the exemplar of “little faith” in Matthew 14, will soon have Jesus say to him, “Get behind me, Satan,” and will eventually deny Jesus three times. In light of the Easter event, then, Peter became an exemplar of the forgiven sinner. A great variance of opinions exists as to the interpretation of this passage with respect to what authority and responsibility, if any, Jesus was giving to Peter.

Petros had not previously been used as a name, but in the Greek-speaking world it became a popular Christian name, after the tradition of Peter’s prominence in the early Christian church had been established.

In the Eastern Orthodox Church this passage is interpreted as not implying a special prominence to the person of Peter, but to Peter’s position as representative of the Apostles. The word used for “rock” (petra) grammatically refers to “a small detachment of the massive ledge”, not to a massive boulder. Thus, Orthodox Sacred Tradition understands Jesus’ words as referring to the Apostolic Faith.

The great majority of Western scholars concur with the interpretation, that the “rock” was Peter, not Jesus himself or Peter’s faith.

 

[joe370]

I certainly understand that your background has probably guided you in a different direction and on a different journey, and perhaps CAF is nothing more than a brief layover, on your way to something else, but since you are here perhaps you could answer those questions presented, starting with the OP, as well as the following question, if only for a lark:

If God did say, I will build my church… and God died for His church, do you think He built in vain, or do you believe that God would want everyone, (those with knowledge of His church) - to belong to His church?

Hi Joe: I do understand your view and the views of others on this post. I see the reasoning behind what each of you are saying and I understand the conclusions you draw from this reasoning. It would be difficult to properly convey my view on any of that, because my background is so different. I can say that I don’t think any of you are going to hell for trying to be close to God in whatever way you heard His call. Each of you are converging on one point starting from different points. It follows that you are taking different paths to the same place. The strange part about that is that you really don’t have to go anywhere. Remember those pictures they sold in the kiosks at the malls back in the 1990’s where if you stared at them you were supposed to be able to see another picture emerge from the picture? It seemed like you could never find it until you stopped trying so hard. Then it was right there.

Your friend
Sufjon

 

[benedictus2]

Hi Joe: I do understand your view and the views of others on this post. I see the reasoning behind what each of you are saying and I understand the conclusions you draw from this reasoning. It would be difficult to properly convey my view on any of that, because my background is so different. I can say that I don’t think any of you are going to hell for trying to be close to God in whatever way you heard His call. Each of you are converging on one point starting from different points. It follows that you are taking different paths to the same place. The strange part about that is that you really don’t have to go anywhere. Remember those pictures they sold in the kiosks at the malls back in the 1990’s where if you stared at them you were supposed to be able to see another picture emerge from the picture? It seemed like you could never find it until you stopped trying so hard. Then it was right there. Of course it was right there all the time.

Your friend
Sufjon

Actually that is not a good presentation of the Christian belief at all because we have the Bible which all Churches hold to be inerrant.

And the thing is, it was the Catholic Church who came up with the Bible.

So it is not a matter of different people converging on a point. There is a reality independent of what people believe. We do not create reality. We apprehend it.

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev Kevin, may I ask what is the point of listing all the dogmas.