Did Jeus Lie?

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djbarnas

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Hey Forum-
I am doing Bible Study with someone at work and in reading Chapter 7 - in particular verses 9-10. Jesus said he wasn’t going to go but then he did (See purple text). OK … I know Jesus didn’t lie so how do I explain this?
I am stuck and any help would be appreciated.
Peace,
Dave

[1] After this Jesus went about in Galilee; he would not go about in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him.
[2] Now the Jews’ feast of Tabernacles was at hand.
[3] So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea, that your disciples may see the works you are doing.
[4] For no man works in secret if he seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, show yourself to the world.”
[5] For even his brothers did not believe in him.
[6] Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here.
[7] The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify of it that its works are evil.
**8] Go to the feast yourselves; I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
[9] So saying, he remained in Galilee.
[10] But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private. **
 
Lapides Commentary:

Ver. 8.—Go ye up unto this feast. For ye have no danger to fear (says Euthymius).

But I go not up yet to this feast. I am waiting for the anger of the Scribes to subside. For they are looking out for Me to kill Me at the beginning of the feast, but after three days I shall come up secretly and with less danger by myself. For it is clear from verse 10 that He came up a little while after. It is probable that Christ said, as the Vulgate reads, “I go not up,” for had he said, “I go not up yet,” his kinsmen would have proposed to wait for Him. But Christ’s meaning was, I go not up yet, though He did not say so to His kinsmen, to relieve their vexation. Secondly, S. Augustine and Cyril explain “I go not up on this first day of the Feast, but afterwards on the fourth day.” But the truer view is that He determined to go up on the first day (see on ver. 14). Maldonatus explains, “I go not up as ye wish and suppose, as a mere man to be honoured and followed by the people. But I shall soon go up thither as the Messiah and Son of God to teach them the way of salvation, and thus seek to extend His glory and not My own. But this seems somewhat forced.

Ver. 9, 10.—When he had said these words, &c. Christ appears not to have taken the straight road through Samaria, but to have crossed the Jordan, and after dismissing the multitudes, to have gone up to Jerusalem with a few of His favoured disciples, in secret (see Matt. xix. 1, 2; Luke ix. 51, 53; Mark ix. 29, x. 1).

Ver. 11.—The Jews therefore sought Him at the feast, and said, Where is He? S. Chrysostom says that on a feast day they were always disposed to murder, and they endeavoured to catch Him on feast days. And Euthymius, “Admirable work for feast days, in making them occasions for murder; and that on the very day they ought to have been searching for Christ in order to believe on Him they were aiming only at His death.” And thus in our days many on the feast days on which they ought to be making their peace with God, only offend Him by their gross sins and blaspheming, making their feasts to the devil and not to God; this is the fraud and suggestion of the devil, who takes away the service due to God, and appropriates it to himself
 
According to the ISB “I am not going up” has two meanings. One being that it is not time for his ascension to glory, the other a more literal it’s not my time to go to Jerusalem. So no, he did not lie.
 
Thanks for the explanation on the verses.

Convert no …

She wanted to understand where my joy came from. She was an Atheist, now an Agnostic and this past week she said that - if she did believe in God she could believe in Jesus as God … that’s where she is at so far … after about 4 or 5 months of reading John (once a week at lunch) … we are only up to chapter 8.

She is very thorough in her questions and realized she stopped believing because of influences in her life and she realized that her unbelief was unquestioned … so she started questioning it.

Thus she suggested it (Bible Study) and I eagerly complied. It has been quite the challenge too … How little we actually “know” but fortunately it is not the “knowledge” but the “relationship” when two or three are gathered in his name and the Holy Spirit that is carrying the ball for both of us.

djb
 
You have to look at the reason Jesus said He wasn’t going with them: “My time has not yet come.” When His time came, then He went.

This is all about “progressive revelation”. God has revealed Himself to mankind, and reveals Himself to each of us, as a part of a process. This is actually a good example for your friend. God has not yet revealed Himself to her, for His own mysterious reasons, but if she sincerely seeks Him, eventually He will.

In this example, Jesus only told His brethren what they needed to know. He didn’t tell them what He wanted to keep secret. And there are many other examples of God only telling people what He wished to reveal to them, and keeping other things hidden. And it’s not like He didn’t tell this to the Jews:

“The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever” (Deuteronomy 29:29)

And to us:

“Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them." (Matthew 13:11)

God bless.
 
No. From this page:

In some early manuscripts, the word yet does not appear in John 7:8, so some translations read, “I am not going up to this feast.” Some people will say that a copyist probably added the word yet to verse 8 to bring it in harmony with verse 10 and prevent the appearance that Jesus lied and that the original text would not have included the word yet.

However, even without yet, I don’t think there is a difficulty. Here’s why:

In verse 8, Jesus says, “I’m not going” in response to his brothers’ invitation to accompany them and to make a big production of Himself at the feast. It was a little premature to come on the clouds in glory.

In verse 9, it says that Jesus in fact did not go. He did not accompany them, and He did not go as a public figure, as they wanted.

In verse 10, it says “However, after his brothers had left for the feast, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.”

So it seems to me that even if the word yet is a well-intended scribal emendation, it is what Jesus meant and what John intended to represent Jesus as meaning. The brothers say, “Jesus, you ought to go and make a public spectacle of yourself, to show everyone who you really are.” John adds, in an aside to the reader, that they were really trying to call Jesus’ bluff, they didn’t really believe in Him. Jesus says, “No, it isn’t time for me to do that, so under those conditions, I’m not going.” Since Jesus wanted to go incognito, He couldn’t go with people who intended to make a big deal out of Him. And so in fact He didn’t go with them. But after they left, it was possible for Him to go secretly, so He did.

Imagine if someone drove up in a dilapidated old car and said, “Are you going to church? Why don’t you ride with me?” You look at the jalopy and you remember that the driver is a speedster with a bad driving record, so you say, “No way! I’m not going.” They drive off, and then you take the bus.

You didn’t lie when you said “I’m not going.” It was an elliptical statement that included the context of the situation.

Most conversation is elliptical and presumes the context. For example, the statement “I’m not going” might mean “I am not departing” or it might mean “I am not attending Sally’s party next Tuesday” or it might mean “I am not riding the ferris wheel” or “no one asked me out to the prom” or any number of other things, depending on the context of the situation.
 
djbarnas said:
Hey Forum-
I am doing Bible Study with someone at work and in reading Chapter 7 - in particular verses 9-10. Jesus said he wasn’t going to go but then he did (See purple text). OK … I know Jesus didn’t lie so how do I explain this?
I am stuck and any help would be appreciated.
Peace,
Dave

[1] After this Jesus went about in Galilee; he would not go about in Judea, because the Jews sought to kill him.
[2] Now the Jews’ feast of Tabernacles was at hand.
[3] So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea, that your disciples may see the works you are doing.
[4] For no man works in secret if he seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, show yourself to the world.”
[5] For even his brothers did not believe in him.
[6] Jesus said to them, “My time has not yet come, but your time is always here.
[7] The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify of it that its works are evil.
**8] Go to the feast yourselves; I am not going up to this feast, for my time has not yet fully come.”
[9] So saying, he remained in Galilee.
[10] But after his brothers had gone up to the feast, then he also went up, not publicly but in private. **
Click to expand...
I had to look to see a bit more, and I see that you’re reading the Gospel according to John.

That’s an interesting question. I never noticed these verses before.

Yeah, Jesus could have said, go on ahead and I’ll catch up with you, or something like that.At the very least, he didn’t want them to create a sensation at a festival time, to arouse the crowd that He was coming. It could be that Jesus changed his mind perhaps?

A previous post gave you the explanation from the Ignatius Study Bible. We have to key on the matter of “time” that it was not time to go. Sure, it looks tricky, but it makes sense and explains what Jesus did. He went up when it was time for Him to go.

You’re right, it looks odd, though.
 
In the previous post, I suggested that Jesus did not go with the group as He said, because it was not His time to go up.

The Church recommends reading the Bible with a commentary close by. Sometimes you need more than a study bible to answer a question. Even then, it’s good to have more than one commentary, because you will find that every commentary is limited and will not address every question.

And, so it is here. I looked up the commentary on these verses in The (Catholic) New Jerome Biblical Commentary (about 1992), and it didn’t have the answer or any comment on that specifically.

So, I checked my old, inexpensive Protestant Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible and it gave this answer, at the beginning of this post, that it wasn’t the time for Jesus to go up to Jerusalem. This commentary was written 250 years ago and has been very popular.
 
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