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billsherman
Guest
You were right the first time: it is impossible to “prove” any religion correct. Can’t be done, no matter how hard you try. Sorry.
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DiamondCraftH2O
Guest
I guess I will just have to disagree.
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Pattylt
Guest
@Kaninchen gave a great resource that will help to begin answering your question.
Did Jews in Jesus’ time believe that prophecy had ended? Non-Catholic Religions
Various famous religious leaders/Rabbis give various answers to what a prophet is and the requirements. Their answers vary as is typical. There is no “The Jews” then or now. There were various sects and different schools of thought so you are unlikely to ever get a distinct answer to your question. The same is true for the Messiah. Some Jews weren’t even looking for a Messiah much less had requirements for them.
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mythbuster1
Guest
Daniel was called to prophesy in the Court of Nebuchadnezzer.
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Anesti33
Guest
God proved Himself to me 20 years ago and the evidence keeps mounting. The Catholic Church is the One True Church founded by Christ. Everywhere I look, I see confirmation of this. I can’t wait to share this news with you and everyone else I know.
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billsherman
Guest
Not to be snarky here, but there is a world of difference between faith and knowledge. I have no doubt about your faith. I do, however, have great doubts that you can objectively prove your religion to be true.
If you can provide proof of the existence of the supernatural, you’ll be one of the most famous people who ever lived.
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Anesti33
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billsherman
Guest
That quote is not appropriate in this context.
I do believe. I do have faith. But I don’t confuse that faith with proof.
I believe the supernatural exists, but I can’t prove it. That’s the definition of faith.
I do believe. I do have faith. But I don’t confuse that faith with proof.
I believe the supernatural exists, but I can’t prove it. That’s the definition of faith.
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Anesti33
Guest
I don’t believe that you exist
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meltzerboy2
Guest
If you’ve read Jewish websites such as aish.com, I don’t think you’ll find that the main reason why some Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah was due to the end of prophecy. After all, Jews even recognized certain non-Jewish prophets. There were several other compelling reasons for rejecting Jesus, not the least of which was His declaring Himself to be (the Son of) Gd. To those Jews, it was bad enough He might be a false prophet, but Gd in the flesh as well? Certainly not in keeping with Torah theology.
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DiamondCraftH2O
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I think maybe this convo is getting a little out of hand. Let’s try bringing it back a little everyone. Let’s try to get back on the topic. Answering Jewish objections to why Jesus is the messiah.
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DiamondCraftH2O
Guest
Ah, can you help me with something on the matter? Can you send the location of that in the Torah? I’d like to be able to look into it
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Fati
Guest
There was the 400 years of prophet silence that was broken with Jesus and john the Baptist.
I would recommend the catholic formed dot org. ( it’s free now)and the teaching of dr. Timothy Gray on the book of Mark. It is a 15 sessions . that is the best I have ever seen.
It will open your understanding of the gospel and why the deciples didn’t understand the teaching of Jesus. Have eyes and cant see and ears and cant hear
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Kaninchen
Guest
I think that it’s time to draw something to your attention because it may help you in your approach to the topic of :
More often than not, conversations between Jews and Christians as to why we don’t believe in Jesus are framed in such a way that there’s a presumption that we partly accept that there’s a case to be answered. Thus, for example, with proof texts, it would run something like: “Isaiah 7/Isaiah 53, therefore Jesus, what say you?” And off we go arguing about what a virgin is/was and suffering servants.
This approach, I would argue, is a mistake for both sides in that it doesn’t go anywhere. The framing is wrong.
The nature of the New Testament itself is the core framing problem - to Christians, it’s Scripture and Reportage, to Jews it’s Literature, hence a discussion of Isaiah 7/Isaiah 53 and Jesus, for example, is ‘proof text’ stuff to Christians, to Jews it’s an author/authors telling a story.
An example I used to use here is the form of the notional:
Isaiah W:X “And he shall stub his toe.”
Matthew Y:Z “And Jesus stubbed his toe.”
Did Jesus stub his toe which then led to the discovery of the ‘prophesy’ in Isaiah, or was Matthew aware of a prophesy about toe-stubbing when Jesus stubbed his toe, which then led to the toe-stubbing text because Matthew saw an important link, or did some part of the NT construction process add an entirely fictional toe-stubbing incident to bolster the story (various other interpretations could arise, literary criticism is like that)?
Don’t assume we’ll accept the way that conversations may be framed.
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DiamondCraftH2O
Guest
U mistake my goal. I just want to know what messianic prophecies Jews believe Jesus didn’t fulfill and then I want to see the merit behind them and then try to use logic to see which side holds up. Along with praying and asking for understanding if course
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Kaninchen
Guest
What I’ve tried to point out is that we don’t accept that there’s a case to be answered in terms of what is contained in the NT because we don’t accept it as Reportage/Sacred Text. To us, it’s no more Reportage/Sacred Text than a Jane Austen novel. Think of Catholic views of the Qur’an or Book of Mormon.
A basic run-down of the Jewish concept of Messiah can be found here at Judaism 101, while interpretations of the concept of Messiah may vary, that’s a good start.
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DiamondCraftH2O
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Ah yes, that link was what I was after. I appreciate it. No worries btw. I wasn’t trying to say you had to go along with anything in the NT or anything or use stuff from it. I just wanted your side of what you believe 
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Kaninchen
Guest
Why some of us come here.
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