Did Jews marry vowed virgins?

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The Church teaches that Mary was a vowed virgin, then was betrothed to Joseph.

I admit certain aspects of Our Lady are a struggle for me. Please be considerate with my inquirey. I am seeking for strength, for encouragement.

Is there historical evidence of this practice happening in old testament Jewish life?

Thanks,
Michael
 
rcwitness said:
The Church teaches that Mary was a vowed virgin, then was betrothed to Joseph.

I admit certain aspects of Our Lady are a struggle for me. Please be considerate with my inquirey. I am seeking for strength, for encouragement.

Is there historical evidence of this practice happening in old testament Jewish life?

Thanks,
Michael
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Yes. Mary was a vowed virgin. She married St Joseph. She and St Joseph had a celibate marriage. Joachim and Anna could not conceive because Anna was barren. Anna promised to dedicate her child to the service of God should he give her one. She gave birth to Mary and gave her to God. 🙂
 
Zekariya said:
Yes. Mary was a vowed virgin. She married St Joseph. She and St Joseph had a celibate marriage. Joachim and Anna could not conceive because Anna was barren.** Anna promised to dedicate her child to the service of God should he give her one. She gave birth to Mary and gave her to God**. 🙂
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That is not in Scripture and not taught by the Church.
You will only find that in the Protoevangelium of James written around 150 AD.
 
thistle said:
That is not in Scripture and not taught by the Church.
You will only find that in the Protoevangelium of James written around 150 AD.
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You are not required to believe it, however, it is taught in the Byzantine Rite. It is included in Byzantine liturgical hymns.
 
rcwitness said:
Is there historical evidence of this practice happening in old testament Jewish life?

Thanks,
Michael
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Michael, I am aware that no one is answering your question…

I dont know if there is or is not any historical evidence that this was a cultural practice of the Jews during the time of Mariam and Joseph, all Church teaching aside…

I realize you are looking for scholarly insight, not faith for traditional insight.

Good luck in your quest for authentic answers. 🙂
 
thistle said:
That is not in Scripture and not taught by the Church.
You will only find that in the Protoevangelium of James written around 150 AD.
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It is not included in Scripture and is not taught by the Church, but many believe in the attribution of Sts. Joachim and Anne as the parents of Our Lady. Devotion to St. Anne began in the Roman Church sometime prior to the late 12th century, and devotion to St. Anne began in the Eastern Church as early as the 6th century. St. Joachim was given a feast day on March 20th (the day following the Feast of St. Joseph) beginning in 1584 (the feast day is currently July 26th, after several changes in the calendar, and September 9th for the Eastern Orthodox and Greek Catholics). I would consider the attribution of Sts. Joachim and Anne as the parents of Our Lady to be tradition, although not binding (such as Sacred Tradition), but held by many (“many” being a loose term, as I do not know many devotees to Sts. Joachim or Anne for a definitive answer).

As for the original topic at hand, I am afraid I know little of the relations between 1st century Jews (a peculiar phrase :o) for any worthwhile (name removed by moderator)ut. Hopefully you will be able to receive your answer, OP (I certainly would be interesting in knowing)!
 
**Num 30:1 (30:2) And he said to the princes of the tribes of the children of Israel: This is the word that the Lord hath commanded:
Num 30:2 (30:3) If any man make a vow to the Lord, or bind himself by an oath: he shall not make his word void but shall fulfil all that he promised.
Num 30:3 (30:4) If a woman vow any thing, and bind herself by an oath, being in her father’s house, and but yet a girl in age: if her father knew the vow that she hath promised, and the oath wherewith she hath bound her soul, and held his peace, she shall be bound by the vow:
Num 30:4 (30:5) Whatsoever she promised and swore, she shall fulfil in deed.
Num 30:5 (30:6) But if her father, immediately as soon as he heard it, gainsaid it, both her vows and her oaths shall be void, neither shall she be bound to what she promised, because her father hath gainsaid it.
Num 30:6 (30:7) If she have a husband, and shall vow any thing, and the word once going out of her mouth shall bind her soul by an oath,
Num 30:7 (30:8) The day that her husband shall hear it, and not gainsay it, she shall be bound to the vow, and shall give whatsoever she promised.
Num 30:8 (30:9) But if as soon as he heareth he gainsay it, and make her promises and the words wherewith she had bound her soul of no effect: the Lord will forgive her.
Num 30:9 (30:10) The widow, and she that is divorced, shall fulfil whatsoever they vow.
Num 30:10 (30:11) If the wife in the house of her husband, hath bound herself by vow and by oath,
Num 30:11 (30:12) If her husband hear, and hold his peace, and doth not disallow the promise, she shall accomplish whatsoever she had promised.
Num 30:12 (30:13) But if forthwith he gainsay it, she shall not be bound by the promise: because her husband gainsaid it, and the Lord will be merciful to her.
Num 30:13 (30:14) If she vow and bind herself by oath, to afflict her soul by fasting, or abstinence from other things, it shall depend on the will of her husband, whether she shall do it, or not do it.
Num 30:14 (30:15) But if the husband hearing it hold his peace, and defer the declaring his mind till another day: whatsoever she had vowed and promised, she shall fulfil: because immediately as he heard it, he held his peace.
Num 30:15 (30:16) But if he gainsay it after that he knew it, he shall bear her iniquity.
Num 30:16 (30:17) These are the laws which the Lord appointed to Moses between the husband and the wife, between the father and the daughter that is as yet but a girl in age, or that abideth in her father’s house. **
 
Since one of the parables is of ten virgins - Matthew 25 - i think you could assume it was an understood practice during that time.

Perhaps developing a relationship with her would help with some of your doubts 👍
 
Yes celibate marriage was practiced during the time of Jesus in Judea. Two people would marry each other but would remain chaste and not have sex it wasn’t a very common practice obviously. I apologize for my ignorance but I don’t see how celibate marriage in ancient Judea affects ones belief or opinion of Mary
 
padrepio_2012 said:
Yes celibate marriage was practiced during the time of Jesus in Judea. Two people would marry each other but would remain chaste and not have sex it wasn’t a very common practice obviously. I apologize for my ignorance but I don’t see how celibate marriage in ancient Judea affects ones belief or opinion of Mary
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It is still practiced today, and it is known as Josephite marriage - it is still uncommon, as you might expect.
 
rcwitness said:
The Church teaches that Mary was a vowed virgin, then was betrothed to Joseph.

I admit certain aspects of Our Lady are a struggle for me. Please be considerate with my inquirey. I am seeking for strength, for encouragement.

Is there historical evidence of this practice happening in old testament Jewish life?

Thanks,
Michael
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Like the Catholic Church , the Jewish religion has a lot of rituals, sayings, and practise that are tradition not written anywhere, for example when a Jewish couple get married and they are religious it is a given “that they don’t have sex for a week” as this week is given to the Lord, and that the Lord will bless there marriage.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
**Num 30:1 (30:2) And he said to the princes of the tribes of the children of Israel: This is the word that the Lord hath commanded:

Num 30:3 (30:4) If a woman vow any thing, and bind herself by an oath, being in her father’s house, and but yet a girl in age: if her father knew the vow that she hath promised, and the oath wherewith she hath bound her soul, and held his peace, she shall be bound by the vow:
Num 30:4 (30:5) Whatsoever she promised and swore, she shall fulfil in deed.
Num 30:5 (30:6) But if her father, immediately as soon as he heard it, gainsaid it, both her vows and her oaths shall be void, neither shall she be bound to what she promised, because her father hath gainsaid it.
Num 30:6 (30:7) If she have a husband, and shall vow any thing, and the word once going out of her mouth shall bind her soul by an oath,
Num 30:7 (30:8) The day that her husband shall hear it, and not gainsay it, she shall be bound to the vow, and shall give whatsoever she promised.
Num 30:8 (30:9) But if as soon as he heareth he gainsay it, and make her promises and the words wherewith she had bound her soul of no effect: the Lord will forgive her.

Num 30:16 (30:17) These are the laws which the Lord appointed to Moses between the husband and the wife, between the father and the daughter that is as yet but a girl in age, or that abideth in her father’s house. **
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This is interesting, thanks
 
Warandpeace said:
Since one of the parables is of ten virgins - Matthew 25 - i think you could assume it was an understood practice during that time.
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I don’t understand what point you are trying to make? The ten virgins in the parable are bridesmaids, they are not brides. It is actually translated as ‘bridesmaids’ in many Bibles.

There is no mention of them taking vows, either - the word ‘virgin’ means young unmarried girl, in that context.
 
thistle said:
That is not in Scripture and not taught by the Church.
You will only find that in the Protoevangelium of James written around 150 AD.
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So?

The Gettysburg address is not found in Scripture either, and the Church doesn’t teach it either; but no one would claim that it’s recitation by Lincoln is a historical fact.

Do you really believe that the only factual information in the world what is found in Scripture?
 
paperwight66 said:
I don’t understand what point you are trying to make? The ten virgins in the parable are bridesmaids, they are not brides. It is actually translated as ‘bridesmaids’ in many Bibles.

There is no mention of them taking vows, either - the word ‘virgin’ means young unmarried girl, in that context.
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Celibacy is correlated to the anticipation of end times. Consecrated virginity was popular during early Christianity, probably due to the persecution of the Church.

I don’t think it out of the realm of possibility that Mary’s holiness went unnoticed. Perhaps her parents or herself thought virginity prudent, or something discerned through prayer. Certainly Jewish men practiced celibacy, for example, John the Baptist, St. Paul, and St. John. No one seems to raise a fuss in the gospels about Jesus being celibate either.
 
Warandpeace said:
**Celibacy is correlated to the anticipation of end times. **Consecrated virginity was popular during early Christianity, probably due to the persecution of the Church.

I don’t think it out of the realm of possibility that Mary’s holiness went unnoticed. Perhaps her parents or herself thought virginity prudent, or something discerned through prayer. Certainly Jewish men practiced celibacy, for example, John the Baptist, St. Paul, and St. John.** No one seems to raise a fuss in the gospels about Jesus being celibate either.**
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The ten virgins is about consecrating our love, worship, and hearts to God, not worldly pleasures or false gods.
Virginity is pure, and even called for, for an unwed bridesmaid. I am inquiring about evidence of the practice of vowed virgin celibate women entering into a marriage and keeping their virginity.
No one is raising a fuss here. I am not denying what the Church teaches. I believe, though I admitt it is not easy, nor is my faith in all Mary doctrines super strong. Nevertheless, I consistantly show faith by defending them. Some information supporting this practice could go a long way in helping myself and other’s to see its likelyhood.

peace,
Michael
 
Although I certainly believe Mary is ever-virgin, I don’t believe she originally intended celibate marriage with St. Joseph. I believe they decided to remain virgins because of Jesus.

It’s possible I’m wrong, but I just don’t think the House of David practiced celibate marriages.
 
bsroufek said:
Although I certainly believe Mary is ever-virgin, I don’t believe she originally intended celibate marriage with St. Joseph. I believe they decided to remain virgins because of Jesus.

It’s possible I’m wrong, but I just don’t think the House of David practiced celibate marriages.
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Well, you raise a good point…Is it required to believe the vow before marriage interpretation? I am almost certain the Church teaches this (particularly from Leo Trese’s book, The Faith Explained). I really enjoy the book, but this came up and is hard to accept. Though, I am not one to reject something just because it is “hard”.

If it was a documented practice of the Jews, I would embrace it more. As it is, I simply don’t deny it. To believe Mary, Joseph, and her parents chose this completely unOrthodox practice is not impossible, but “the teaching” makes it sound common practice for consecrated virgins to still be wed to a husband as a caretaker, and thus both husband and wife living in chastity.
 
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