Depends how filled he was.
I believe the eastern orthodox explain Mary’s situation in this way. They say she is so filled with the Holy Spirit there was no room for sin to enter. So, they dont say she was sinless but that sin had no room in Mary (same thing really!) I don’t recall seeing anything about a definitive statement on if John had OS or not. I do think its entirely possible he did not. But, why would the church need to formally define his situation either way?
Where can one find 4 Ezra?Adam is blamed in 4 Ezra for the tendency to sinfulness of his descendants; don’t read it when you’re in low spirits - it’s a decidedly gloomy book
Yes, that is how the Church understands John the Baptist’s spiritual condition at birth. It is why we celebrate a Mass to honor his birth (along with those of Jesus and Mary) because they were all born without the stain of original sin. However, in JtB case he was not born without concupiscence (the inclination to sin) as were Jesus and Mary. His was a baptism by Christ when both were in the womb–so that he (JtB) would be fit to be the forerunner, the announcer to Israel, of the long awaited Messiah, thus fulfilling prophecy.
It wouldn’t be any more miraculous than Mary’s condition, true, but it was not necessary that he be without any sin. But, the Scriptures are silent about JtB’s personal sin because he wasn’t the focus of the NT, especially the Gospels. He went through a period of intense doubt, but we do not know if he entailed any sin in it. Jesus never rebuked him for his struggle, but only told JtB’s disciples to go tell him the wonderful things Jesus was doing. It’s possible he was without sin, but the Church doesn’t teach that he was.We don’t know if John the Baptist ever sinned or not, so if he DID not, then wouldn’t it be more miraculous than Mary being spared the burden of the tendency to be inclined to sin?
I mean, he would be even more remarkable for avoiding sin if this were the case, right?
I agree he did not need to be without sin.
Mary’s holiness is not merely that she is sinless. Every prenatal and infant is without any personal sin. Baptized infants are in one sense sinless. If every person on earth were sinless, throughout all of history, Mary would still be preeminent in holiness, below Christ and above all other created persons.
I think the hurdle here would be how can someone without this singular exception ever come close to not sinning?
It’s not impossible, by the grace of God, to lead a holy life. No one (except Jesus and Mary) can avoid venial sins, but it is possible to avoid mortal sins. A good example of this is St. Therese of Lisieux. She never committed a mortal sin.
Although your ideas are well thought out, they are just that–your ideas.
The Church teaches that JtB was born without original sin not that his martyr’s death was his baptism. JtB declaration that he ought to be the one being baptized by Christ is not a theological/doctrinal statement on his part. Jesus instituted baptism as the means of restoring saving grace to the human person, but JtB had no such concept in mind. He was simply stating the fact that he wasn’t sinless (actual sin), i. e. it was a simple statement of humility.No, he didn’t. That is a line from the movie “The King of Kings” not from the biblical text.
And you are wrong, dear fellow Catholic.Thats how i see it anyhow but i could be wrong
We can speculate on a lot of things, but it’s best to leave biblical interpretation to those trained by the Church to do it in matters of faith and morals. Thats interesting, but John the Baptist was baptising people and insisting on it from people. All this means is he knew Jesus as Christ or Messiah (even though later it appears as if he wonders if he really is)I think that he had Original Sin, according to his own words, “it is i who need baptism from you and yet you come to me” that shows he was in need of baptism.
John was never baptized by Jesus he acchieved the baptism of the blood as he was martyred by Herod Antippas.
He also said when Herod asked him what he will do if he should be released, he said that he would follow Jesus, but he never got that opportunity.
Thats how i see it anyhow but i could be wrong
But, he did for Lazarus!
A couple of things to keep in mind when thinking about such things is: firstly, Jesus, being divine as well as human, did what he did for a greater good. You will remember that even with Lazarus Jesus didn’t rush to be with the family, but tarried a bit longer, and when his disciples asked him why he replied that it was for the glory of God. So, he had things in mind for each of these people that we can’t see, as he does with all of us now. Some people seem to have everything going perfect in their lives while others have great suffering. Why? Because God knows what is best for each of us. Our “job” is not to ask “why me?” but to ask what does God want me to do in this situation.Thats interesting, but John the Baptist was baptising people and insisting on it from people. All this means is he knew Jesus as Christ or Messiah (even though later it appears as if he wonders if he really is)
And, if you had your choice, to be baptised by Jesus, or to not be
!!!
Maybe this is the real problem! Jesus never did baptise anyone.
There is no mention of JTB getting baptised himself.
He did to others and there is mention they were rebaptised in Christ’s name later…
WOAH.
What kind of guy was Jesus, to not baptise JTB after he baptised Jesus?
JTB likely would not accept anything less.
And, Jesus never rushed to see him when he found out he was dead with his head chopped off!
I don’t like this topic! I better stop thinking about it, its reminding me of my skeptic days.
YES! A whole lot!A couple of things to keep in mind when thinking about such things is: firstly, Jesus, being divine as well as human, did what he did for a greater good. You will remember that even with Lazarus Jesus didn’t rush to be with the family, but tarried a bit longer, and when his disciples asked him why he replied that it was for the glory of God. So, he had things in mind for each of these people that we can’t see, as he does with all of us now. Some people seem to have everything going perfect in their lives while others have great suffering. Why? Because God knows what is best for each of us. Our “job” is not to ask “why me?” but to ask what does God want me to do in this situation.
Also, JtB was baptized in the womb when he was filled with the Holy Spirit by the Infant Jesus in Mary’s womb. So, he had no need of water baptism. As I wrote in an earlier post, this is why we celebrate JtB’s birthday, along with those of Jesus and Mary, because he was born (not conceived) without original sin. Does that help?
JOHN 21:25 REMEMBERThats interesting, but John the Baptist was baptising people and insisting on it from people. All this means is he knew Jesus as Christ or Messiah (even though later it appears as if he wonders if he really is)
And, if you had your choice, to be baptised by Jesus, or to not be
!!!
Maybe this is the real problem! Jesus never did baptise anyone.
There is no mention of JTB getting baptised himself.
He did to others and there is mention they were rebaptised in Christ’s name later…
WOAH.
What kind of guy was Jesus, to not baptise JTB after he baptised Jesus?
JTB likely would not accept anything less.
And, Jesus never rushed to see him when he found out he was dead with his head chopped off!
I don’t like this topic! I better stop thinking about it, its reminding me of my skeptic days.