Did John the Baptist know that Jesus was the Messiah?

[hilarycotter]

At the Baptism the heavens opened and a voice said “this is My Son in whom I am well Pleased.” John seems to have know something about the nature of Jesus as he indicated that he was not fit to be baptized by Jesus, but Jesus should baptize him (Mark 3:14).

Now when we consider Mathew 11:4 it seems to imply that John is asking Jesus if he is the Messiah, and then we have Acts 18:24-28 where it seems to imply that John’s followers did not know that Jesus was the Messiah.

So what did John know about Christ?

TIA

Hilary

 

[Robbinson]

At the Baptism the heavens opened and a voice said “this is My Son in whom I am well Pleased.” John seems to have know something about the nature of Jesus as he indicated that he was not fit to be baptized by Jesus, but Jesus should baptize him (Mark 3:14).

Now when we consider Mathew 11:4 it seems to imply that John is asking Jesus if he is the Messiah, and then we have Acts 18:24-28 where it seems to imply that John’s followers did not know that Jesus was the Messiah.

So what did John know about Christ?

TIA

Hilary

I believe he knew, then had doubt, and then was assured.

He knew first in the womb of Elizabeth, when he leaped in the womb upon Mary’s arrival with Jesus in her own womb.

He hoped when he met Jesus and baptized him - and the signs were there with the Holy Spirit.

He had doubt when he was in prison and sent his disciples to inquire of Jesus. Perhaps he was also expecting the political messiah who would come as a conquering hero. He sent his followers to inquire, and Jesus supplied them with the answer by reference to what he was doing. So I believe John ultimately knew that Jesus was the Messiah.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[NotWorthy]

John knew fully well that Jesus was the Messiah. In the incident where John sends his disciples to question Jesus, I think it is John’s subtle way of steering his disciples to follow Jesus. Remember John’s words, “He must increase, while I must decrease” (Paraphrasing).

By sending his disciples to see the miracles and wonders that Jesus was performing, he was nudging them to follow Jesus. In the event of John’s death, he didn’t want to leave them orphan. This is all my opinion, though. I like to call it the Gospel of Notworthy!

And those in Acts 18 are not necessarily disciples of John. I conclude from the text that they were simply part of the multitude that came down to the Jordan to be baptized by John.

 

[jcrichton]

John knew fully well that Jesus was the Messiah. In the incident where John sends his disciples to question Jesus, I think it is John’s subtle way of steering his disciples to follow Jesus. Remember John’s words, “He must increase, while I must decrease” (Paraphrasing).

By sending his disciples to see the miracles and wonders that Jesus was performing, he was nudging them to follow Jesus. In the event of John’s death, he didn’t want to leave them orphan. This is all my opinion, though. I like to call it the Gospel of Notworthy! Hi, Notworthy!

I concur with you. John knew exactly who Jesus was; though he was unaware of whom he was (the physical person of Jesus) till it was reveal to him by God ("…the Holy Spirit in form of a dove…").

There was also a schism arising between John’s and Jesus’ disciples; since John was the first to Baptize his disciples felt that Jesus was infringing upon their teacher’s turf… no doubt John hoped that, by getting a direct response from Jesus, his disciples would understant that He was the Pastor that they had to follow.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[NotWorthy]

Hi, Notworthy!

I concur with you. John knew exactly who Jesus was; though he was unaware of whom he was (the physical person of Jesus) till it was reveal to him by God ("…the Holy Spirit in form of a dove…").

There was also a schism arising between John’s and Jesus’ disciples; since John was the first to Baptize his disciples felt that Jesus was infringing upon their teacher’s turf… no doubt John hoped that, by getting a direct response from Jesus, his disciples would understant that He was the Pastor that they had to follow.

Maran atha!

Angel

On that “schism” note, I seem to recall that the Apostle John was at first a disciple of John the Baptists. Is this recorded in Scripture or is it simply tradition?

I also see that Andrew was one of the two of John’s disciples that turned and followed Jesus in John’s Gospel (John 1:37-40).

So, did this really cause angst among the two groups of disciples? At first it seems childish that these two groups of followers of such holy men could have this issue, but then again, the Gospel authors don’t paint the Apostles as being very mature and level-headed, either.

 

[hilarycotter]

Sorry guys a couple of follow up questions

1. Was John the Baptist baptized in his mother’s womb when Mary came to see Elizabeth? I am referring to the leap that the in utero John the Baptist did.
2. Did the in utero John know that Jesus was the Messiah?
3. Did John know Jesus was the Messiah before the baptism (when he makes the statement I am not worthy to baptize you) or was it after the baptism when God spoke saying - this “my son in whom I am well pleased”, or did he know he was the Messiah and then come to realize he was also the son of God?

Thanks and sorry for trying your patience

 

[NotWorthy]

Sorry guys a couple of follow up questions

No problem, this is a discussion forum. The only question that I refuse to answer is “Are you still beating your wife?”

1. Was John the Baptist baptized in his mother’s womb when Mary came to see Elizabeth? I am referring to the leap that the in utero John the Baptist did.

I wouldn’t say that he was baptized, for the Sacramental Baptism in the name of Jesus was not yet instituted. He was filled with the Holy Spirit, however.

Remember, just because God sets guidelines for the normal reception of Graces and/or the Holy Spirit, doesn’t mean He is boxed in by those guidelines in extraordinary circumstances. I’d list Cornelius in Acts (so that Gentiles would be able to bypass

• Circumcision in order to be baptized),
• the Immaculate Conception of Mary (so that Jesus would dwell in an untainted vessel while in her womb), and
• John the Baptists’ “filled with the Holy Spirit even in the womb” as extraordinary cases.

1. Did the in utero John know that Jesus was the Messiah?

I wouldn’t think so (and this is just my opinion). I think John is reacting to the joy of receiving the Holy Spirit so much, that he was doing triple back flips in Elizabeth’s womb!!! Imagine, a 90 year old pregnant woman having to put up with that!

1. Did John know Jesus was the Messiah before the baptism (when he makes the statement I am not worthy to baptize you) or was it after the baptism when God spoke saying - this “my son in whom I am well pleased”, or did he know he was the Messiah and then come to realize he was also the son of God?

Thanks and sorry for trying your patience

John knew that:
a) His mission was to issue in the Messiah’s coming.
b) He wasn’t fit to unlace his sandals (Incidentally, this role was left to the lowliest of slaves. A Jewish slave had the right to refuse to unlace his master’s sandals, but a gentile slave had no choice… interesting).

But, as evidenced in John’s Gospel, John the Baptist did not know Jesus until He arrived at the Jordan.

Again, just my opinion, but John may not have known that Jesus was much more than simply the Messiah until the Holy Spirit blessed him with this knowledge.

 

[hilarycotter]

great answers again NotWorthy, especially #2!

How do you know about me beating me wife?

 

[NotWorthy]

great answers again NotWorthy, especially #2!

How do you know about me beating me wife?

Because only wife-beaters ask follow-up questions?

 

[jcrichton]

On that “schism” note, I seem to recall that the Apostle John was at first a disciple of John the Baptists. Is this recorded in Scripture or is it simply tradition?

I also see that Andrew was one of the two of John’s disciples that turned and followed Jesus in John’s Gospel (John 1:37-40).

So, did this really cause angst among the two groups of disciples? At first it seems childish that these two groups of followers of such holy men could have this issue, but then again, the Gospel authors don’t paint the Apostles as being very mature and level-headed, either.

…we also have the several notations in Scripture of the various religious divisions within Judaism (Masters of the Law, Pharisees, Sadducees, Nazareans, Yahwehists (not sure if this is the correct spelling), Zelots…); John the Baptist, as his names indicates, is in a league all to his own… it was only after Jesus began His public ministry that John saw some “competition…” we also find this sort of zealousness in the early Church as St. Paul has to admonish the Corinthians (1 Cor 1:10-17); human nature dictates that we develop certain preferences which eventually, if left unchecked, can become personal prejudice or discrimination–Christ Commands us to Live above such pettiness… sadly, for some, that is almost as difficult as the eye of the needle example!

Maran atha!

Angel