Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

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But the quote says “most correct of any book on earth”, not “the most correct book except the Bible if it is translated correctly”.

“I told the brethren, [the twelve Apostles] that the Book of Mormon was the most correct book of any on earth, and the keystone of our religion, and a man would get nearer to God by abiding by its precepts, than by any other book.” JSHC 7 Vol., 4:461

If that is the case, then the use of the superlative “most correct” in reference to the BoM was incorrect. 🤷 And, it would also mean that the second part of the quote was completely inaccurate as well since it claims that one would get nearer to God through the BoM than through the Bible.

su·per·la·tive   /səˈpɜrlətɪv, sʊ-/ Show Spelled[suh-pur-luh-tiv, soo-] Show IPA
–adjective
  1. of the highest kind, quality, or order; surpassing all else or others; supreme; extreme: superlative wisdom.
Grammar . of, pertaining to, or noting the highest degree of the comparison of adjectives and adverbs, as smallest, best, and most carefully, the superlative forms of small, good, and carefully. Compare comparative ( def. 4 ) , positive ( def. 20 ) .
Jay53,
I’ve been very busy but wanted to post a brief response to this if you happen back. The Book of Mormon teaches quite a bit more about when and where to pray and how to draw close to the Holy Spirit and understand personal revelation through the Spirit than does the Bible, so that would be why “get nearer to God” would be a valid comparison.

That of course can be considered a subjective statement, as can the statement about “most correct book”, since superlatives are often quite subjective. (As, for example, a man telling his wife she is the “most beautiful woman in the world”).

I would say Joseph Smith was addressing an LDS audience and thus to think his statement applied to the whole world would be a literal assumption from generalizing the words “a man”, but perhaps not the intent of the statement since he had an audience in front of him at the time and wrote that he “told the brethren”, meaning LDS members listening to him or who would later read his words.
 
Jay53,
I’ve been very busy but wanted to post a brief response to this if you happen back. The Book of Mormon teaches quite a bit more about when and where to pray and how to draw close to the Holy Spirit and understand personal revelation through the Spirit than does the Bible, so that would be why “get nearer to God” would be a valid comparison.

That of course can be considered a subjective statement, as can the statement about “most correct book”, since superlatives are often quite subjective. (As, for example, a man telling his wife she is the “most beautiful woman in the world”).

I would say Joseph Smith was addressing an LDS audience and thus to think his statement applied to the whole world would be a literal assumption from generalizing the words “a man”, but perhaps not the intent of the statement since he had an audience in front of him at the time and wrote that he “told the brethren”, meaning LDS members listening to him or who would later read his words.
Nice tap dancing around the subject, not that anyone believes a word of this nonsense. You’re trying to rewrite history and I won’t let you.

What you’re doing is the historical equivalent of going from Cleveland to Pittsburgh, by heading west. The simple and much more plausible explanation is that Smith meant exactly what he said the way he said it: that the BOM was more reliable and more correct than the Bible. Trying to downplay the intent behind his words is deceitful and dishonest.
 
Rosetta Stone? We don;t need Rosetta Stone…all we need is go dig us up some of them there seer stones
It turns out that Joseph Smith had a seer stone even before he dug up the fictional plates. In fact, he apparently used it to find the plates in the first place, trying him even closer to folk magic and making its influence on early Mormonism even more clear.
 
I disagree, STM. .
But then, as I said, people rarely quote themselves
One can find many similarities between Solomon Spalding’s Manuscript story and the Book of Mormon. A guy by the name of Vernal Holley studied that intensely.:
sidneyrigdon.com/vern/vernP1.htm
Apparently, his idiosyncratic ways of expressing himself, and some plot themes found their way into the BoM, probably through a work apparently no longer in existence, which was used in compiling the BoM.
So one can find people quoting themselves, not necessarily intentionally, quite frequently. One could theoretically compose a text of many posts on the internet by one identity, and discover if that person wrote other posts, or IRL works.
 
I disagree, STM. . One can find many similarities between Solomon Spalding’s Manuscript story and the Book of Mormon. A guy by the name of Vernal Holley studied that intensely.:
sidneyrigdon.com/vern/vernP1.htm
Apparently, his idiosyncratic ways of expressing himself, and some plot themes found their way into the BoM, probably through a work apparently no longer in existence, which was used in compiling the BoM.
So one can find people quoting themselves, not necessarily intentionally, quite frequently. One could theoretically compose a text of many posts on the internet by one identity, and discover if that person wrote other posts, or IRL works.
LongJourney,
You might try reading the “study” you linked and use your own intelligence to compare with actual words and sentence structure and word usage in the Book of Mormon. Here is a passage from that “study” that is an example of the level of scholarship offered:

"Many of the war stories in the Book of Mormon contain tactical stratagems and descriptions of battles that are almost identical to Spaulding’s battle narratives. In the Spaulding account, the war was fought to “avenge” their “country’s wrongs,” [Manuscript Story p. 79, 83]. In the Book of Mormon, “the war was waged to avenge” the “wrongs” [caused by] their enemies, [Alma 54:24; 61:6]. Warriors in both “died in the cause of their country and their God,” [Manuscript Story p. 79, cf. Alma 56:11]. Both records develop the theme of a small band of young, daring “warriors,” who were called “their sons” and who were “determined to conquer or die,” [Manuscript Story p. 91, cf. Alma 56:17] in the defense of their country. The terms used to describe this [very large “small band”] of young warriors are similar in both works. In Spaulding, they are described as a “chosen band of warriors ,” “my brave warriors,” “my brave sons,” “young heroes,” “a band of about three thousand resolute warriors,” a “small band of valiant citizens,” and a “little band of desperate heroes” (Manuscript Story pp. 89, 90, 98, 100, 108). In the Book of Mormon, they are described as “two thousand stripling warriors,” “my two thousand sons,” “two thousand young men,” “my little army,” “my little band of two thousand,” “young men valiant for courage,” and “my little band (who) fought most desperately” (Book of Mormon: Alma Chapter 53 Heading [not in 1830 edition]; Alma 56:9,10, 33; 57:6; 53:20; 57:19).

In both stories, night-time stratagems were developed and given special importance. Each tells of enemies caught off guard while they were “in a profound sleep” [or sleeping in a profound silence. (Manuscript Story p. 98; cf. Mosiah 24:19; Alma 55:16-17)]

In the Spaulding account, the remains of the dead were secured from “the voracious jaws of carniverous beasts” by “digging into the ground about three feet deep . . . they there deposited the bodies in it . . . and then placing others upon them until the whole were deposited, they then proceeded to throw dirt upon them, to raise over them a high mound” (Manuscript Story p. 95). A similar description is found in the Book of Mormon’s story of Zoram. It reads: “. . . in one day it (the city) was left desolate; and the carcasses (of the dead) were mangled by . . . wild beasts . . . Nevertheless after many days their dead bodies were heaped up upon the face of the earth, and they were covered with a shallow covering” (Alma 16:10,11). [The “heaped up” Book of Mormon battlefield dead parallel Spaulding’s “heaps” of battlefield dead (Manuscript Story p. 100).] "

The Book of Mormon has no expression “the voracious jaws of carniverous beasts”. The mounds were something that were known to exist in various places in the eastern United States, so if a person were writing a story trying to make it realistic they would use those features. “Wars to avenge wrongs” could be expected in any war book, as also a small valiant band and using the hills and mountains to advantage.

What that supposedly scholarly study fails to do is demonstrate patterns of language usage extensively that could be said to be “lifted” from Solomon Spaulding’s writing. The idea of the native Americans having come from the Old World and being Israelites was not a novel idea–it was already an extant idea. Of course Spaulding would come up with dark-skinned and lighter skinned people–that would take about two seconds to figure out as a plot line. That doesn’t mean Joseph Smith copied the idea from Spaulding. It just means it made a good plot line for Spaulding’s made-to-be-believable account.

One can certainly see why assumptions galore point to the Book of Mormon and say “that is not original material”–but the idea of sentences, word usage, language usage, account complexity, and religious genuineness and sincerity being in any way similar is about an eighth grade level “study”, it seems to me. If someone were going to try, for example, to get their doctorate in English by making such a “study” they would have to demonstrate far deeper thinking and comparisons than are made in the study you linked, or they would be laughed out of the doctoral review board and told to go back to their writing and do a much more thorough job or forget the whole thing.
 
It was a very early book on the subject. Others have gone further. Let our readers make their own conclusions. Again, this is a frequently-used Mormon apologetic. A panning review will discourage others from reading the work, and thus discourage open discussion.
 
It was a very early book on the subject. Others have gone further. Let our readers make their own conclusions. Again, this is a frequently-used Mormon apologetic. A panning review will discourage others from reading the work, and thus discourage open discussion.
OK, LongJourney,
So do some independent thinking and your own comparisons and show how thorough your own research has been on the subject.
 
Jay53,
I’ve been very busy but wanted to post a brief response to this if you happen back. The Book of Mormon teaches quite a bit more about when and where to pray and how to draw close to the Holy Spirit and understand personal revelation through the Spirit than does the Bible, so that would be why “get nearer to God” would be a valid comparison.

That of course can be considered a subjective statement, as can the statement about “most correct book”, since superlatives are often quite subjective. (As, for example, a man telling his wife she is the “most beautiful woman in the world”).

I would say Joseph Smith was addressing an LDS audience and thus to think his statement applied to the whole world would be a literal assumption from generalizing the words “a man”, but perhaps not the intent of the statement since he had an audience in front of him at the time and wrote that he “told the brethren”, meaning LDS members listening to him or who would later read his words.
What? :confused:

Your comparison doesn’t even hold water. If a man tell his wife she is “the most beautiful woman in the world” then HE believes that - to him she is the most beautiful. And if he tells other people that, he expects them to believe that he thinks that. To extend that comparison we would have to believe that Joseph Smith believed that the BoM was the most correct book - more correct than the Bible and he expected others to share in that belief.

I have to agree with Returning Home, you are tap dancing around his quote in order to make it more palatable. 😦

Also, given that Mormonism denies the Sacraments of Reconciliation and Eucharist which are clearly two ways to become nearer to God and are clearly explained in the Bible, I would have to vehemently disagree that the BoM in any way brings one nearer to God than the Bible.
 
Your comparison doesn’t even hold water. If a man tell his wife she is “the most beautiful woman in the world” then HE believes that - to him she is the most beautiful. And if he tells other people that, he expects them to believe that he thinks that. To extend that comparison we would have to believe that Joseph Smith believed that the BoM was the most correct book - more correct than the Bible and he expected others to share in that belief.

I have to agree with Returning Home, you are tap dancing around his quote in order to make it more palatable. 😦
Thanks, Jay. And if I’m right, why does he never address my posts? Is he afraid of the truth?
Also, given that Mormonism denies the Sacraments of Reconciliation and Eucharist which are clearly two ways to become nearer to God and are clearly explained in the Bible, I would have to vehemently disagree that the BoM in any way brings one nearer to God than the Bible.
Another semi-related point is that for a church that supposedly values the Bible, why don’t they bother to say the “Our Father” prayer? Was that mistranslated or is it missing many 'plain and precious things?
 
Thanks, Jay. And if I’m right, why does he never address my posts? Is he afraid of the truth?

Another semi-related point is that for a church that supposedly values the Bible, why don’t they bother to say the “Our Father” prayer? Was that mistranslated or is it missing many 'plain and precious things?
I find that very curious, too - particularly since I’ve noticed that it is another similarity between Islam and Mormonism. (Islam claims to revere Jesus and follow His teachings, but they don’t say the prayer He taught us either.) 🤷

If I remember correctly, Mormons claim that they don’t need to say the prayer as it was taught; they believe that it was given just as a formula to use in constructing one’s own prayers to God.

I would be interested to know if there are any Mormon converts who do pray the Lord’s Prayer, (having learned and prayed it in their former religion)? Or if some Mormons do pray the Lord’s Prayer, just not with any regularity or with any formality (i.e. as it is said at Mass.)
 
I find that very curious, too - particularly since I’ve noticed that it is another similarity between Islam and Mormonism. (Islam claims to revere Jesus and follow His teachings, but they don’t say the prayer He taught us either.) 🤷

If I remember correctly, Mormons claim that they don’t need to say the prayer as it was taught; they believe that it was given just as a formula to use in constructing one’s own prayers to God.

I would be interested to know if there are any Mormon converts who do pray the Lord’s Prayer, (having learned and prayed it in their former religion)? Or if some Mormons do pray the Lord’s Prayer, just not with any regularity or with any formality (i.e. as it is said at Mass.)
Being raised LDS, no, we didn’t pray the Our Father. Not once that I can recall.

Somehow I had it memorized, though I don’t know for what reason. Maybe it’s all the movies I’ve watched where it is recited. Even after 20+ years of no religion in my life, at all, when I started going to Mass I still remembered the Our Father and it was one of the things I “got”. 🙂

During my conversion, coming into a life of prayer was very difficult for me. Many times I relied on the Our Father. It is a very incredible and special prayer.

When I see a very young child at Mass saying the Our Father with us, I am touched beyond belief. Just imagine, your parents teaching you this prayer while so young!
 
It turns out that Joseph Smith had a seer stone even before he dug up the fictional plates. In fact, he apparently used it to find the plates in the first place, trying him even closer to folk magic and making its influence on early Mormonism even more clear.
I know. In fact, he stole it from a neighbor
 
What? :confused:

Your comparison doesn’t even hold water. If a man tell his wife she is “the most beautiful woman in the world” then HE believes that - to him she is the most beautiful. And if he tells other people that, he expects them to believe that he thinks that. To extend that comparison we would have to believe that Joseph Smith believed that the BoM was the most correct book - more correct than the Bible and he expected others to share in that belief.

I have to agree with Returning Home, you are tap dancing around his quote in order to make it more palatable. 😦

Also, given that Mormonism denies the Sacraments of Reconciliation and Eucharist which are clearly two ways to become nearer to God and are clearly explained in the Bible, I would have to vehemently disagree that the BoM in any way brings one nearer to God than the Bible.
Jay53,
I doubt that a man who “tells other people that … expects them to believe that he thinks that.” Perhaps he may hope that they will, but I doubt that he expects them to. Joseph Smith would have hoped that his audience would share in that belief, but to say that now the whole world has to share in that belief is an odd assumption about the use of a superlative in speaking.

What I was illustrating is that there is a subjective element to the quote.

As to the Bible versus the Book of Mormon and teaching how and where to pray, your more recent comment about the Lord’s prayer shows the lack of Biblical teaching about how and where to pray, and the resulting formulaic prayers that certainly do not draw a person closer to God.

Through this post I will let the person who asked about being ignored know that there is an option in this forum that allows comments to not be seen, and I have chosen that option in the particular case in question. I do that after I can see that to continue a conversation that will always be antagonistic will not be helpful to anyone, particularly since in each of those cases the person already has learned all they wanted to learn about LDS teachings and beliefs when they were a member and now are merely justifying their different choice of religion in life.

If anyone would like to see all of the Book of Mormon verses that teach about prayer and compare them on their own with all of the Bible verses that teach about prayer, then let me know and I will list all of the Book of Mormon verses that teach about prayer.

As far as getting close to Christ through what is called the “Eucharist”, that is not prayer and does not communicate with Christ directly, so to think that it replaces prayer as a way of drawing closer to Christ or the Holy Spirit seems to me to be a belief that is not taught by the New Testament–especially if as someone has commented on another thread, there really is “remembrance” going on since the act of “remembrance” can be done anywhere, anytime–or should be able to be done, I hope at least (subjective again–some may not be “able” to do that. They may think partaking the Eucharist is the only time they are allowed to have “remembrance” of Him.
 
Parker is the only person I know who does not believe that “most correct” does not mean superior
 
Parker is the only person I know who does not believe that “most correct” does not mean superior
Well, he must be a liberal Mormon, in order to have stayed around here for so long. And in order to be a liberal Mormon he has to redefine a LOT of words.
 
yes…like “superior”, God, Jesus, Preisthood, angel, truth, Bible, translate, seer stone…etc
 
Another semi-related point is that for a church that supposedly values the Bible, why don’t they bother to say the “Our Father” prayer? Was that mistranslated or is it missing many 'plain and precious things?
Mormons do not value the bible. They say they do in order to dupe unsuspecting Christians, but among themselves they have always taught that the bible is hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy.
 
Mormons do not value the bible. They say they do in order to dupe unsuspecting Christians, but among themselves they have always taught that the bible is hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy.
Not true. In the parts of the Bible they believe support their belief…,.the Bible is totally accurate. It is only the plethora of verses that show the LDS Church to be a hoplessely lost cult that are hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy
 
Mormons do not value the bible. They say they do in order to dupe unsuspecting Christians, but among themselves they have always taught that the bible is hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy.
So which verse are you talking about with this comment? As a Mormon, I strongly value the Bible, and have (it appears based on my experience in this forum) a more thorough knowledge of it than most of the people with whom I have conversed on this forum. It comes up time and again that they are unfamiliar with a concept or the language nuances or the background beyond the few isolated verses they know and quote within a chapter. So then, who really “values the Bible” in terms of real study of the entire Bible as opposed to valuing the verses they happen to be familiar with?

I know of no verse in the Bible that is “hopelessly corrupt and untrustworthy”, unless you are talking about the newer translation used by Catholics that is indeed untrustworthy based on how the original language has been brought over into English without regard to the original intent of the writer or speaker using the origin language and its background.
 
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