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zerinus
Guest
When you have read the Book of Mormon, come back to me with your questions, and I will be happy to answer any questions you may have about it.
zerinus
- Status
zerinus
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Zer:
I have been reading the Book of Mormon, and i have been coming to you with my questions. I’ve asked from whom the Nephites were descended and how it was that some of them were deceived by Satan and others were not.
I am still praying that the Spirit of God will confirm the truth and reveal the lies. I would like to continue to read, and pray for wisdom, and ask you questions about the Book of Mormon, if you are sincere about answering them.
My concern is the remark you made that you had nothing more to say to me. You see, my mother may have given birth to an ugly son, but she did not raise a stupid one! After hearing your remark i asked myself:
"Is it possible you are playing the fool, Soc? Lets say you take Zer’s advice and read the entire Book of Mormon. If you really were, by some miracle, able to contain yourself and keep your questions bottled up inside until you have read every page and were ready to burst, how do you know you should trust him? How do you know all this exertion will not be in vain? For, you might, after all this suffering of having so much to ask and no one to answer, return to Zer seeking answers, and after asking the first question, be horrified to have him say, ‘I still have nothing more to say to you.’
“What embarrassment you would feel to be the object of such a cruel joke! You know nothing about this Zer–whether he is honest or deceptive, trustworthy or treacherous, you cannot say. It would be wise to proceed cautiously and see if this Zer, who you hardly know and recklessly call your friend, is a man of his word, or if he means to do you harm.”
Would you then, Zer, be willing to compromise? Will you show me, by your actions, you should be trusted, and answer my questions about the Book of Mormon as they come to me?
S
Socrates4Jesus
Guest
I see. Thank you.
There were two elders who brought my Book of Mormon to my home and spoke of “burning in their bosoms” as the answers to their prayers, and confirmation that the book was true. I suppose, judging by your answer, that they were, in reality, deceived about the meaning of the truth of this hymn. For you are saying the “hidden fire that trembles in the breast” is not the answer from the Spirit of God, but the method by which the question is asked of Him.
The question of how people are deceived is one i asked you about 3 Nephi, chapters 1 and 2. Perhaps i’m slow to learn, but i’m not sure i understand your answer, yet. I thought you were saying a Latter Day Saint always knows the difference between truth and lies.
Would you say that these two, who claimed to be Latter Day Saints, were not, in this case, immune to deception?
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zerinus
Guest
I have no problems with answering your questions about the Book of Mormon, or any aspect of the Church for that matter that you might want to know about. If you will go back to my previous posts, I think you will find that I have patiently answered all your question. But I am not prepared to engage in a protracted metaphysical philosophical analysis of some theological aspect of Mormonism. I don’t think that will be productive for either of us.
zerinus
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
No problem. I just wondered if the Book of Mormon gave any clue as to why some of God’s people were susceptible to deception and some were not. Personally, i cannot imagine why anyone who witnessed a night as bright as noonday would not see this as a miracle and am curious as to how anyone could ignore such strong evidence. If there is another passage of the Book of Mormon describing why some are deceived and others are not, i’d be extremely interested in reading it, if you will only point it out to me.
I’m asking for my own benefit, as i do not share your confidence of being imune to deception. My concern is always that i might become decieved, and so i am always putting what i believe, and what others tell me to believe, to the test.
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Zer:
I have a question about chapters 3 and 4 of 3 Nephi, if you care to answer: Where did the battles mentioned therein occur? In North America, Central America, South America, or elsewhere?
I have a question about chapters 3 and 4 of 3 Nephi, if you care to answer: Where did the battles mentioned therein occur? In North America, Central America, South America, or elsewhere?
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holdencaulfield
Guest
Just thought I’d drop in with this.
“I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, I had a dream! I had a dream! How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?” (Jeremiah 23:25-26)
Also here is how you can know a true prophet.
“For what has straw to do with grain?” (Jeremiah 23:28)
“I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, I had a dream! I had a dream! How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets who prophesy the delusions of their own minds?” (Jeremiah 23:25-26)
Also here is how you can know a true prophet.
“For what has straw to do with grain?” (Jeremiah 23:28)
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Yes, but how do you know who prophesy lies in God’s name and who does not, Holden?
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holdencaulfield
Guest
Let’s start with my first quote:Yes, but how do you know who prophesy lies in God’s name and who does not, Holden?
“For what has straw to do with grain.” (Jeremiah 23:28)
When taken in context this quote is referring to false prophets. It shows how if something a prophet says contradicts what God says then it is not from God. This is because straw (the Word of God) is not like grain (the word of false prophets).
“But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!” (Galatians 1:8)
No one not even an angel (which wouldn’t be an angel, they would be a demon) can contradict the Word of God.
Lets look at the character of Balaam. He claimed to be a prophet of God, however he tried to use the Israelite religion for his own personal gain. He believed in polytheism and sexual immorality. Does this remind us of someone named Joseph Smith?
“While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with the Moabite women, who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods.” (Numbers 25:1-2)
Also how can one person defy what God has said, he can’t.
“How can I denounce those whom the Lord has not denounced?” (Numbers 23:8)
And finally here is what we can say about anyone (Joseph Smith) who try to make people worship false gods.
“If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, Let us follow other gods (gods you have no known) and let us worship them, you must not listen to the words of that prophet of dreamer.” (Deuteronomy 13:1-3)
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holdencaulfield
Guest
I have a question for you. If you met a man who claimed to be a prophet and would speak the word of God; would you believe them if they showed you no miraculous signs. And the only ones who agreed with them was their close friends. Would you believe them if they were known not to repay loans. Would you believe them if they stared into stones all day. Would you believe them if they later changed their mind. I wouldn’t, would you?
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Rbt_Southwell
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zerinus
Guest
The Bible tells us that it is the business of Satan to go about deceiving the nations of the earth. Here are some references for you to consider:
Revelation 12:
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: . . .
Revelation 20:
3 And cast him [Satan] into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, . . .
8 And [Satan] shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, . . .
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, . . .
Throughout the Bible, there are many examples of people who have been deceived by Satan. You ask, how could the Nephites in the Book of Mormon have been deceived, after they had seen all the great miracles mentioned in the book of Third Nephi. The answer is, for the same reason that the Jews did not believe in Jesus, notwithstanding all the great miracles that He performed among them; or for the same reason that Pharaoh and his servants and courtiers did not believe in Moses, despite all the great miracles that he did in front of their eyes. Your answer to that question is basically as good as mine! But the scriptures inform us that when we are deceived, it is always our own fault, otherwise we could not come under condemnation for being deceived. There is a way that we can avoid being deceived—and that is by putting our trust in God, and submitting to be guided by His Spirit:
D&C 45:
57 For they that are wise and have received the truth, and have taken the Holy Spirit for their guide, and have not been deceived—verily I say unto you, they shall not be hewn down and cast into the fire, but shall abide the day.
That is a good policy and a good practice. The formula for that is the one given in the scripture above: it is to be “wise”, and “receive the truth,” and “take the Holy Spirit for our guide”. Then we are assured that we will not be deceived.
zerinus
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Rbt_Southwell
Guest
- Did Joseph Smith EVER quote from the Book of Mormon?
- Does ANYONE else other than LDS and LDS splinter sects quote from the Book of Mormon?
Robert
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
I must admit that i know little about Joseph Smith. For me to pass judgement on him before hearing what a Latter Day Saint has to say in his defense would be out of character for me. If you have any quotes by Mr. Smith or his contemporaries, i’d be interested in reading them.
As for the Book of Mormon teaching a different story about who Jesus is and why He did what He did, this might be true. I have not read enough of the Book of Mormon to know for certain, but have only the opinions of others, which i have not verified. If i find that the Book of Mormon is opposed to the New Testament, i shall have to carefully compare the two and decide, with the help of the Holy Ghost, in which i should put my trust.
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
Have you not eyes to see?
How many times must this non-Latter Day Saint quote from the Book of Mormon before you stop asking?
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Socrates4Jesus
Guest
To be wise, receive the truth and take the Holy Spirit for my guide is my desire and what i strive to do on my best of days.
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zerinus
Guest
We believe it was in Central and South America. The Book of Mormon does not give precise geographical information about the places where the events took place so that they can be identified; but it is believed by us that they landed first in Central or South America, and that most of their history developed in that area.
zerinus
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holdencaulfield
Guest
I know, Thank YouLOL
Zerinus would.
Robert
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Rbt_Southwell
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zerinus
Guest
Good, I am glad to hear it. If you pursue that course, it will eventualy lead you to the truth.
zerinus
- Status