Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BartBurk
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Socrates4Jesus said:
You know more about it than i do. I don’t know enough to say one way or the other.

I think what i’d like to do is follow Zer’s advice and read the Book of Mormon and see what answers he has for me. I appreciate your concern, and would be grateful for your prayers. If i decide to reject the Book of Mormon, i’d like to do so after i’ve done my level best to see whether it teaches the truth. If it teaches the truth and shows itself to be trustworthy, how could i reject it?
Click to expand...
I think that’s a good choice, however if you only look at the Mormon propaganda that ignores facts you will be mistaken. You need to look at both sides of the issue.
 
zerinus said:
… That depends on what you mean by “being deceived”. If by that you mean whether I have made any mistakes in my life or not, the answer is yes, sure I have. No man is perfect, and we are all liable to make mistakes. I have even committed sins that I have had to repent of. But lucky for us, through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, when we sin we can repent of them, and God has said that if we repent, He will forgive us of our sins. But if by “being deceived” you meant that any doubts has arisen in my mind about the truth of the Church I adhere to, or of the holy calling of its leaders, the answer to that is absolutely not. I have never had any reason to want to question that at all.

zerinus
Click to expand...
Yes, i understand, Zer. The difficulty for me is that Roman Catholics, Muslims, Evangelicals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Latter Day Saints like yourself all say the same as you, or something similar. They might be deceived on one point or another, but they know their religion is the one true religion. Perhaps you can appreciate my skepticism and caution?
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes, i understand, Zer. The difficulty for me is that Roman Catholics, Muslims, Evangelicals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Latter Day Saints like yourself all say the same as you, or something similar. They might be deceived on one point or another, but they know their religion is the one true religion. Perhaps you can appreciate my skepticism and caution?
Click to expand...
Just because you feel happy when reading something doesn’t make it true. Guess what I loved reading Ender’s Game. Does that make it true?
 
zerinus said:
… It is a guarantee because God has said so. That is why one of the names of the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth. There are two forces in operation in the world: one is the Spirit of God, which is Light and Truth, and whose essence is Truth; and the other is the spirit of Satan, whose essence is that of darkness and a lie. The only way to avoid being deceived by the evil spirit is to flee to the Spirit of God, which is Light and Truth. Hence the Lord’s counsel to His disciples:

John 16:

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: . . .
And John’s teachings:

1 John 2:

27 But the anointing [of the Holy Ghost] which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
…
Click to expand...
I think i’m not doubting the Holy Spirit’s ability to speak; it’s more like i’m doubting my ability to listen, or understand. I want desperately to have, as Jesus said, ears to hear, yet at times i feel as though i’m deaf. Either i am, or so many others are.

It’s getting late. Thanks for giving me something to sleep on. Talk with you later.
 
holdencaulfield said:
Just because you feel happy when reading something doesn’t make it true. Guess what I loved reading Ender’s Game. Does that make it true?
Click to expand...
What is it that makes the Bible true, Holden? Sleep on that one and maybe we will talk about it tomorrow.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes, i understand, Zer. The difficulty for me is that Roman Catholics, Muslims, Evangelicals, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Latter Day Saints like yourself all say the same as you, or something similar. They might be deceived on one point or another, but they know their religion is the one true religion. Perhaps you can appreciate my skepticism and caution?
Click to expand...
Well, I cannot speak for them. I can only speak for myself and my own religion. If you think that they might have the truth, you are very welcome to examine them too. I have nothing against you doing that. But I believe that only my religion will stand the test specified.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
Well, I cannot speak for them. I can only speak for myself and my own religion. If you think that they might have the truth, you are very welcome to examine them too. I have nothing against you doing that. But I believe that only my religion will stand the test specified.

zerinus
Click to expand...
Once again you just skipped over my questions. Guess you can’t answer them.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
I think i’m not doubting the Holy Spirit’s ability to speak; it’s more like i’m doubting my ability to listen, or understand. I want desperately to have, as Jesus said, ears to hear, yet at times i feel as though i’m deaf. Either i am, or so many others are.
Click to expand...
The answer to that is “be not faithless, but believing” (John 20:27).

There is a passage in the Book of Mormon perhaps answers that:

Mosiah 2:

9 And these are the words which he spake and caused to be written, saying: My brethren, all ye that have assembled yourselves together, you that can hear my words which I shall speak unto you this day; for I have not commanded you to come up hither to trifle with the words which I shall speak, but that you should hearken unto me, and open your ears that ye may hear, and your hearts that ye may understand, and your minds that the mysteries of God may be unfolded to your view.
It’s getting late. Thanks for giving me something to sleep on. Talk with you later.
Click to expand...
Yes, I need to go to bed too! Happy to answer more of your questions tomorrow.

zerinus
 
holdencaulfield said:
Just because you feel happy when reading something doesn’t make it true. Guess what I loved reading Ender’s Game. Does that make it true?
Click to expand...
I believe you are right, Holden, that there are Latter Day Saints who believe this. As i mentioned to Zer, some elders of the church, who brought me a Book of Mormon, told me that they believed the book to be true because they had “burning in their bosoms” when the read it.

These young men even used this passage as a proof text:

And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
(Luke 24:32)

However, if i am understanding Zer correctly, he is saying that this feeling that some Latter Day Saints claim to have is not the reason he himself has for believing. Rather than an esoteric experience of a fire in his chest, he has a strong sense of conviction that the Book of Mormon is true, which he believes to come from none other than the Spirit of God.

I hope he will correct me if i misrepresent him.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Ironically, also a story written by a mormon.
Click to expand...
The Battle Star Galactica series was also created by a Latter Day Saint, Rebecca. I find it interesting that the modern reincarnation of the saga has two waring races–the human race, which believes in the pagan gods and goddesses of the ancient Greeks, and the Cylons, which are cloned human beings, who believe in only one god.

I think that with any work of fiction one can take the good and leave the bad. The Battle Star Galactica TV series, for example, does a great job of exploring the reasons why terrorists would blow themselves up to kill their enemies, and the immorality of torture, and how war drives people to do horrific things that they would, in times of peace, never consider. However, i think it would be a mistake to form one’s religious beliefs based on the fictional epic.
 
zerinus said:
… There is a passage in the Book of Mormon perhaps answers that:

Mosiah 2:9 And these are the words which he spake and caused to be written, saying: My brethren, all ye that have assembled yourselves together, you that can hear my words which I shall speak unto you this day; for I have not commanded you to come up hither to trifle with the words which I shall speak, but that you should hearken unto me, and open your ears that ye may hear, and your hearts that ye may understand, and your minds that the mysteries of God may be unfolded to your view.…
Click to expand...
Yes, i like that passage. It reminds me of David’s words:

Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law.*(Psalms 119)*I’m not one to easily shed tears, yet this is a psalm that i’ve never been able to read without having an emotional reaction.

Very well, then, it has long been my desire that the Holy Spirit open my eyes to the truth. As He has in the past, i shall trust Him to do now. This shall be my prayer as i read the Book of Mormon.

👍
 
zerinus said:
The answer to that is “be not faithless, but believing” (John 20:27).
…
Click to expand...
Yes, Zer, that is my desire, and i’m attempting to wrap my mind around what you are saying to me. Please let me know if i’m getting closer:

I think what you are saying is that it is not an emotional feeling of a fire in your heart (whatever that might be) that leads you to believe that the Book of Mormon is true. Rather, it is a strong feeling of conviction, that comes from the Holy Spirit, that leads you to believe the book is true.

Am i understanding you correctly, or do you need to give me further explanation to help me understand?
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
I believe you are right, Holden, that there are Latter Day Saints who believe this. As i mentioned to Zer, some elders of the church, who brought me a Book of Mormon, told me that they believed the book to be true because they had “burning in their bosoms” when the read it.

These young men even used this passage as a proof text:

And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?
(Luke 24:32)
Click to expand...
The expression “burning in the bosom” that occurs in the scriptures has become a much maligned cliché that has lost its true meaning. The “burning in the bosom” does not mean just “feeling good” about something. It means a lot more than that. It is an experience that is hard to describe. It is something that enlightens your mind as well as touches your heart. It is something that not only makes you feel in your heart that something is right; but also know in your mind that it is so. It is literally an enlightening of the mind, but one which also touches your heart. It just is not an easy experience to describe.

In the case of the Book of Mormon, however, people’s experiences have been different. Just as people’s character and personalities are different, and the level of their faith or spiritual development is different, the manner in which the Spirit has communicated the truth of the Book of Mormon to them has been different. That is why I am not willing to describe to you exactly how the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of the Book of Mormon to you. You will know when you have received that witness. No one expects you to accept the truth of it if you don’t. If you don’t think that you have received a spiritual witness of the truth of the Book of Mormon, then don’t accept it. Nobody says that you should.

The promise made in Moroni 10:1–5 says nothing about any “burning in the bosom”. It merely says that you shall know the truth of it by the power of the Holy Ghost. How the Holy Ghost chooses to communicate that message to you is the Holy Ghost’s business. I am not in the business of second guessing the Holy Ghost, and neither should any body else be.

zerinus
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top