Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

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RAR said:
Interesting Zerinus,

If you’ve read the Church Fathers and they have attested to you that the Mormon church is the true church, then why doesn’t the Mormon church teach that the “substance” of bread and wine truly becomes the “substance” of Jesus… the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ himself?

There was no confusion among the early Church as to the nature of the Eucharist. I suggest reading Ireneaus… he understood very well what the Holy Eucharist.

RAR
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That is not true. Take a look at this article. I think it is very enlightening.

zerinus
 
MHalsey said:
Based on your blog, it seems you didn’t do the research yourself. You based it on some other article. What your blog says to me is that you looked through them to find passages that fit your preconceived notion that the ECFs actually believe we become gods, (even though never once is God pluralized in any of the quotes you referenced.) That doesn’t cut it.

The challenge to you was, read the writings of the early church fathers in sincerity and prayer. All of them. Don’t rely on an anti-Catholic person’s interpretation.
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That is not true. I have read a good selection of their writings. I haven’t read everything they wrote. I don’t think anybody has. But there are good representative selections of their writings, such as those by Lightfoot and Bettenson, and I have read those. I had directed you to two articles on my blog. In the first one, I had made the selections myself. In the second article, I used another selection conveniently made by someone else.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
That is not true. Take a look at this article. I think it is very enlightening.

zerinus
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It is surely true.

Semantics aside, though the “doctrine” of transubstantiation may not have been taught (and I’m not going that far, I’d have to look into it more), it is clear that it was understood as being Christ’s flesh and body itself.

And take a look at Catholic Answers own site on the subject.

RAR
 
RAR said:
It is surely true.

Semantics aside, though the “doctrine” of transubstantiation may not have been taught (and I’m not going that far, I’d have to look into it more), it is clear that it was understood as being Christ’s flesh and body itself.

And take a look at Catholic Answers own site on the subject.

RAR
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Not true! That doctrine is not biblical, as I have already discussed in these posts:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3234436&postcount=30
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3234685&postcount=31

And the ECFs didn’t believe it either. They understood the scriptures, and knew that the scriptures did not teach that doctrine.

zerinus
 
why_me said:
Mormondiscussions is not a ‘mormon’ board. It is mainly made up of people who have left the lds church. However, there are also active lds members on that board too. But it is not a place to have a nice discussion about the lds church. However, mormonapologetics could be the place for socrates.

I would recommend www.ldsforums.net for soc and also for you Zerinus.
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WhyMe:

Please tell me, what is your opinion of the Book of Mormon?
 
zerinus said:
Not true! That doctrine is not biblical, as I have already discussed in these posts:

And the ECFs didn’t believe it either. They understood the scriptures, and knew that the scriptures did not teach that doctrine.

zerinus
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One needs go no further than John 6. It is there for all to see. He let those such as yourself leave Him because of it’s importance.

Zerinus, I mean no disrespect, but it’s clear you’ve spent the greater part of 4 years making it your mission to attempt to convert Catholics from this site. What is your preoccupation?

Yours seems to be an issue of authority… you don’t recognize any but yourself. Obedience leaves little room for Pride and by recognizing the Authority of the Catholic Church one humbles himself to Jesus Christ and the church he founded. Anything else is fiction.
I’ll pray for you that the scales fall from your eyes and that it doesn’t take a lightening bolt to knock you off your horse.

RAR

Point of interest: the BoM, in Joseph’s History, there is no mention of the Catholic church.
 
RAR said:
One needs go no further than John 6. It is there for all to see. He let those such as yourself leave Him because of it’s importance.
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Yes, and you conveniently ignore verse 63:

“It is the spirit that quickeneth ; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
Zerinus, I mean no disrespect, but it’s clear you’ve spent the greater part of 4 years making it your mission to attempt to convert Catholics from this site. What is your preoccupation?
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What is yours? I am here to debate with non-LDS. That is what this site is for.
Yours seems to be an issue of authority… you don’t recognize any but yourself.
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Nay, I don’t recognize any but that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
I’ll pray for you that the scales fall from your eyes and that it doesn’t take a lightening bolt to knock you off your horse.
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Save your breath!
Point of interest: the BoM, in Joseph’s History, there is no mention of the Catholic church.
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And so?

zerinus
 
What does Zerinus stand for anyway? Where did you get your name? It surely must have some significance.

RAR
 
zerinus said:
Nothing particular. It means me! 🙂

zerinus
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Oh, funny… you got me thinking… so I Googled zerinus…

You’re known as Physogaleus zerinus Winkler… commonly called “requiem sharks,” which are extinct.

So, you’re sharkin around looking for a funeral?

😃

But look on the bright side… you’re not spineless… you’re part of the phylum Chordata.

👍

RAR

p.s. Purely in fun… I had no idea.
 
RAR said:
Oh, funny… you got me thinking… so I Googled zerinus…

You’re known as Physogaleus zerinus Winkler… commonly called “requiem sharks,” which are extinct.

So, you’re sharkin around looking for a funeral?

😃

But look on the bright side… you’re not spineless… you’re part of the phylum Chordata.

👍

RAR

p.s. Purely in fun… I had no idea.
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Not spineless…clueless.😛
 
RAR said:
Oh, funny… you got me thinking… so I Googled zerinus…

You’re known as Physogaleus zerinus Winkler… commonly called “requiem sharks,” which are extinct.

So, you’re sharkin around looking for a funeral?

😃

But look on the bright side… you’re not spineless… you’re part of the phylum Chordata.

👍

RAR

p.s. Purely in fun… I had no idea.
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That question has been asked before. Here are the exchanges, if you are interested:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1772258&postcount=52
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1772338&postcount=53
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773090&postcount=55
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773701&postcount=61
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773776&postcount=63
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773876&postcount=71
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773912&postcount=75
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773982&postcount=78

You guys are a boring lot. You ask me repeat questions, and I get bored with answering them. You must lead absolutely boring lives! If that is what you religion does to you, I sure like being a Mormon! 😃

By the way, the above exchanges took place with a lovely lady who used to post here under the name of Nan_S. She was a student of Patristic studies, and was very knowledgeable about that subject. She was also a good debater. She last posted here exactly a year ago. Her last exchanges were with me. She asked me to suggest to her some good books on deification and plurality of gods as taught by the ECFs, which I did. She went off to read those books, and never came back! My guess is that she was so impressed with the books and with my debates that she decided to become a happy Mormon, and decided that it wasn’t worth her while spending any more time at CAF no more! 😛

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
That question has been asked before. Here are the exchanges, if you are interested:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1772258&postcount=52

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1772338&postcount=53forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773090&postcount=55forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773701&postcount=61forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773776&postcount=63forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773876&postcount=71forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773912&postcount=75forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773982&postcount=78You guys are a boring lot. You ask me repeat questions, and I get bored with answering them. You must lead absolutely boring lives! If that is what you religion does to you, I sure like being a Mormon! 😃

By the way, the above exchanges took place with a lovely lady who used to post here under the name of Nan_S. She was a student of Patristic studies, and was very knowledgeable about that subject. She was also a good debater. She last posted here exactly a year ago. Her last exchanges were with me. She asked me to suggest to her some good books on deification and plurality of gods as taught by the ECFs, which I did. She went off to read those books, and never came back! My guess is that she was so impressed with the books and with my debates that she decided to become a happy Mormon, and decided that it wasn’t worth her while spending any more time at CAF no more! 😛

zerinus
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Oh, don’t get so defensive… “boring lot,” I’m truly offended! Okay, maybe I’m not so thin skinned, but I truly I should tell you that I have not found anything as beautiful or as exciting as Catholicism… just for the record.

Zerinus, I need to thank you… because I’m finding that, just as living in Utah County has done, my Catholicism has benefitted. One must always question his beliefs and in doing so, I’ve never been disappointed.

And a person may be able to find a number quotes among the ECFs that can be taken as confused, but taken as a whole they point to the understanding that it was truly Jesus’ real presence in the Body and Blood. And that is why they had councils… to better enunciate their beliefs.

RAR
 
zerinus said:
That question has been asked before. Here are the exchanges, if you are interested:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1772258&postcount=52
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1772338&postcount=53
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773090&postcount=55
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773701&postcount=61
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773776&postcount=63
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773876&postcount=71
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773912&postcount=75
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773982&postcount=78

You guys are a boring lot. You ask me repeat questions, and I get bored with answering them. You must lead absolutely boring lives! If that is what you religion does to you, I sure like being a Mormon! 😃

By the way, the above exchanges took place with a lovely lady who used to post here under the name of Nan_S. She was a student of Patristic studies, and was very knowledgeable about that subject. She was also a good debater. She last posted here exactly a year ago. Her last exchanges were with me. She asked me to suggest to her some good books on deification and plurality of gods as taught by the ECFs, which I did. She went off to read those books, and never came back! My guess is that she was so impressed with the books and with my debates that she decided to become a happy Mormon, and decided that it wasn’t worth her while spending any more time at CAF no more! 😛

zerinus
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Zerinus,

Based upon her most recent post (Dec 2007, not exactly a year ago as you stated) I believe Nan_S is currently an instructor in RCIA. I’m guessing your guess is a bad guess. 😊
 
truthsilence said:
Zerinus,

Based upon her most recent post (Dec 2007, not exactly a year ago as you stated) I believe Nan_S is currently an instructor in RCIA. I’m guessing your guess is a bad guess. 😊
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Can you provide a link to that post? I have done a search, and cannot find anything newer than February last year. You are probably confusing December 2006 with December 2007.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
That is not true. I have read a good selection of their writings. I haven’t read everything they wrote. I don’t think anybody has. But there are good representative selections of their writings, such as those by Lightfoot and Bettenson, and I have read those. I had directed you to two articles on my blog. In the first one, I had made the selections myself. In the second article, I used another selection conveniently made by someone else.

zerinus
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I did read your blogs, and I hold to my assertion. You only read into them in an attempt to prove your false belief in the deification of man. You have not read through them with sincerity and prayer. You own belief that you are correct and “knowing” impairs your ability to do this.

Incidentally, who are Bettenson and Lightfoot? Are these ECFs of the Mormon church? I hope you know that when I refer to the ECFs, I am referring to the ECFs of the Church in the first few centuries after the Apostolic age.

By using a selection written by someone else, you’re allowing that writer’s bias to influence you. So why should I read your blogs when I can read the writings of the Early Church Fathers myself? On the one hand you insist on people reading the BOM for themselves without influence from someone who is anti-mormon, then you expect me to read what you believe (know) about the Early Church Fathers when we all know you are anti-Catholic.

So, the challenge has not been accepted. You won’t read the writings of the Early Church Fathers with prayer and sincerity, without influence from another. Until you do, don’t expect others to read the BOM in the same manner. To do so is to be hypocritical.
 
zerinus said:
That question has been asked before. Here are the exchanges, if you are interested:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1772258&postcount=52
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1772338&postcount=53
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773090&postcount=55
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773701&postcount=61
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773776&postcount=63
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773876&postcount=71
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773912&postcount=75
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1773982&postcount=78

You guys are a boring lot. You ask me repeat questions, and I get bored with answering them. You must lead absolutely boring lives! If that is what you religion does to you, I sure like being a Mormon! 😃

By the way, the above exchanges took place with a lovely lady who used to post here under the name of Nan_S. She was a student of Patristic studies, and was very knowledgeable about that subject. She was also a good debater. She last posted here exactly a year ago. Her last exchanges were with me. She asked me to suggest to her some good books on deification and plurality of gods as taught by the ECFs, which I did. She went off to read those books, and never came back! My guess is that she was so impressed with the books and with my debates that she decided to become a happy Mormon, and decided that it wasn’t worth her while spending any more time at CAF no more! 😛

zerinus
Click to expand...
I’d say this is clear proof you are only here to proselytize, but seeing as how others have pointed out that Nan_s posted as recently as 6 weeks ago, you are obviously incorrect in your assumption.
 
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