Did Judas go to heaven?

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McCartney said:
Read the first paragraph after "Levels of Purgatory. Yes mortal sin sends you to hell but with God all things are possible. Although they do not say mortal sin they do say those who committed terrible crimes which I interpret as Mortal sins.
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If one is truly in the state of mortal sin, by definition he cannot be saved unless he repents before he dies. Not even God can save someone who dies unrepentant of a mortal sin. If God could, he would infringe upon our freewill as well as somehow break the law of non-contradiction (which is impossible). The action of prevenient grace will draw a person in the state of mortal sin towards contrition and confession, but if this is not acted upon the person would be lost. Only those in the state of sanctifying grace will enter heaven.

That being said, these souls in purgatory simply cannot have died in the state of mortal sin, because if they had, they would not be in purgatory.
 
Stephanie_B said:
I thought that Judas had despaired of God’s Mercy by hanging himself. Is that not the greater sin? Correct me if I’m wrong.
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One tradition is that Judas failed to kill himself because the rope broke. Then he wandered the earth, diseased an bloated until he exploded! At least, I think that’s how it goes…
 
First of all, the Catholic Church does not teach that suicide is enough to land someone in hell on it’s own. The link in my first post is to a discussion on these very forums about the fate of suicides (from what I read it was a resounding “they won’t go to hell”).

Apart from that, the bible explicitly says that those who feel remorse and repent will be forgiven by God. Judas feels remorse, returns the money, and says “I have spilt innocent blood”. That sounds like repentance.

If someone who sincerely repented out of genuine remorse still went to hell, that would contradict what is said in John 1:9 (John 1:9 says “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.”)
 
Was he buried in Potter’s field, or the Field of Blood? Would the area be called Aceldama?
 
Stephanie_B said:
I thought that Judas had despaired of God’s Mercy by hanging himself. Is that not the greater sin? Correct me if I’m wrong.
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The point of my earlier post was that some believe that he did not die from the hanging itself, so he did not necessarily die in the act of suicide. Also, the greater sin was not despair. It was betraying Christ. Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
StrawberryJam said:
Was he buried in Potter’s field, or the Field of Blood? Would the area be called Aceldama?
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I don’t think it explicitly says where he was buried, but those are definitely all the same place, and Judas died there. Read the Accounts in Matthew 27 and Acts 1.
 
totheresuce said:
Isn’t killing yourself a sin too?
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Read your catechism.
Sin requires that one must have free will, sound mind, understand what they are doing.
Persons who take their own lives rarely meet all those conditions.

We DO NOT KNOW their state of mind and soul. We leave it to God to know.
 
christus_vincit said:
If one is truly in the state of mortal sin, by definition he cannot be saved unless he repents before he dies. Not even God can save someone who dies unrepentant of a mortal sin. If God could, he would infringe upon our freewill as well as somehow break the law of non-contradiction (which is impossible). The action of prevenient grace will draw a person in the state of mortal sin towards contrition and confession, but if this is not acted upon the person would be lost. Only those in the state of sanctifying grace will enter heaven.

That being said, these souls in purgatory simply cannot have died in the state of mortal sin, because if they had, they would not be in purgatory.
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Ok, but the fallacy comes in men judging what state of sin a person was in.
God’s job.
 
Micosil said:
I am not sure if this is the kind of answer you’re looking for, but in my humble opinion, we truly cannot know one way or the other. We must leave it up to God.
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YES!!!:tiphat:
Your “humble opinion” matches the catechism.
 
Ok, but the fallacy comes in men judging what state of sin a person was in.
God’s job.
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Right. I was just pointing out the criteria for and the nature of mortal sin. Of course, its God who determines whether we meet the criteria or not and judges us according to his perfection.

We have rare insight into Judas, as there is record of his demise in Sacred Scripture. Christ himself even makes reference to Judas’ fate. While this gives us no authority to make definitive judgment’s on the fate of his eternal soul, you can see why there is intrigue around the circumstances of his death.
 
PennyinCanada;11980909 said:
Isn’t saying that Judas despaired of God’s mercy like trying to read someone’s heart after the fact?

I guess we’ll have to see at the end of the world how that played out. I hope for God’s mercy, and for myself as well.
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👍
 
christus_vincit said:
Right. I was just pointing out the criteria for and the nature of mortal sin. Of course, its God who determines whether we meet the criteria or not and judges us according to his perfection.

We have rare insight into Judas, as there is record of his demise in Sacred Scripture. Christ himself even makes reference to Judas’ fate. While this gives us no authority to make definitive judgment’s on the fate of his eternal soul, you can see why there is intrigue around the circumstances of his death.
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Yes…I see why there is’ intrigue’.
It’ll undoubtedly be discussed to death, when the answer is pretty simple.
(Which is: we can’t know)
 
MacQ said:
Yes…I see why there is’ intrigue’.
It’ll undoubtedly be discussed to death, when the answer is pretty simple.
(Which is: we can’t know)
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We can’t ever know. But this doesn’t diminish the merit of discussion.
 
I believe that Judas went to heaven.

Jesus had 12 disciples, which included the betrayer Judas. The most interesting thing is that, during Jesus’ ministry, he more than once, promised his disciples some heavenly authorities.

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. [Matthew 19:28; King James Version]

The people who were promised that they would “sit upon 12 thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel” included Judas because he was one of the 12 disciples of Jesus. It is insane to believe that when Jesus was saying this, He did not know, or had not known yet, that Judas would betray him!

In John 14, we read of Jesus telling His disciples that in His Father’s House (Heaven) there are many “rooms”, He is going to prepare for them, so that where He (Jesus) shall be, there, they (Disciples) shall also be. If it was not so, He adds, He would have told them. Here, Judas was also present. Could he not have had a room in Jesus’ Father’s House? I doubt!

We must remember that the betrayal of Jesus by Judas was meant for a purpose - to fulfill the scriptures as was foreseen by prophet Jeremiah. This was all through God’s plans, otherwise if Judas had not betrayed Jesus as was supposed, then Jesus would not have been crucified, and the world would not have been saved from sins, hence the coming of Jesus to this world would be meaningless! Jesus would then be regarded as a liar because for more than three times he was heard telling his disciples that the Son of Man (Him) would be betrayed and brought into the hands of the Roman Authority. He would be beaten and killed but after three days he would rise to life again.

When Jesus appeared miraculously to his disciples after resurrection:
He said to them, “This is what I told you, while I was still with you, that all things which are written in the law of Moses, the prophets, and the psalms, concerning me must be fulfilled.”
Luke 24:44

The betrayal of Jesus by Judas catalyzed Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection, which, until today, is the backbone of the Christian Faith. The resurrection of Jesus is the reason why Christianity stands today because Christians have reason to believe that there is life in Jesus. After all, Jesus did not come to cause people to go to hell, so why would Judas go there?

We need to recall that it is not one’s good deeds or sins that determine whether they will go to heaven or hell, but** the size of faith **determines. Who knows whether Judas had strong faith of not?

Gondai Moyana
 
Ultimately, we do not know. But even if it is likely Judas went to hell, neither of our prior 2 Popes were willing to assert it for certain:*Even when Jesus says of Judas, the traitor, “It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Mt 26:24), His words do not allude for certain to eternal damnation. (Bl. John Paul II, Crossing the Threshold of Hope, 186)

The mystery of the choice remains, all the more since Jesus pronounces a very severe judgement on [Judas]: “Woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed!” (Mt 26: 24). What is more, it darkens the mystery around his eternal fate, knowing that Judas "repented and brought back the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders, saying, “I have sinned in betraying innocent blood’” (Mt 27: 3-4). Even though he went to hang himself (cf. Mt 27: 5), it is not up to us to judge his gesture, substituting ourselves for the infinitely merciful and just God. (Pope Benedict XVI, General Audience, Oct. 18, 2006)*
 
MacQ said:
Can’t see how. Like how many angels on the head of a pin?🤷
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Yes, we know that only God knows his fate. But discussion about Judas gets people thinking. Why can’t we speculate? There’s nothing wrong with speculation if one doesn’t assert to know the absolute.

Should we stop discussing the Trinity because we can’t fully comprehend it? Of course not. There’s just no reason to be so hostile to discussion on a forum meant for discussion.
 
Judas was an instrument used by God in bringing about the Crucifiction and as such must have been deprived of Free Will.

If this is so then he could not have sinned.
 
Eoin_Mac_Ruari said:
Judas was an instrument used by God in bringing about the Crucifiction and as such must have been deprived of Free Will.

If this is so then he could not have sinned.
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It is contrary to Catholic teaching to assert that we do not have free will. He would not otherwise be human. God is able to bring about His covenant through the free actions of any soul. For example:*CCC#1730 Man is rational and therefore like God; he is created with free will and is master over his acts. *
 
christus_vincit said:
Yes, we know that only God knows his fate. But discussion about Judas gets people thinking. Why can’t we speculate? There’s nothing wrong with speculation if one doesn’t assert to know the absolute.

Should we stop discussing the Trinity because we can’t fully comprehend it? Of course not. There’s just no reason to be so hostile to discussion on a forum meant for discussion.
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It wasn’t “hostility”.
:blackeye:
 
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