Did Judas Iscariot have free will to not betray Jesus?

[jcrichton]

Jesus spoke those words because Her knew, not because He was going to make it so.

Hi!

…no, you’re missing the point; Jesus is singling out Judas… He is not suggesting that “someone” will betray Him; He is stating that Judas will betray Him.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[James248]

Hi!

…no, you’re missing the point; Jesus is singling out Judas… He is not suggesting that “someone” will betray Him; He is stating that Judas will betray Him.

Maran atha!

Angel

The statement Jesus made had to do with foreknowledge. Judas still was culpable. He could have repented.

 

[Wesrock]

The statement Jesus made had to do with foreknowledge. Judas still was culpable. He could have repented.

Could is a tricky word here. He could have in that it was within his own power to do so or to continue down the path he was on. However, Jesus already knew that Judas would not.

 

[jcrichton]

The statement Jesus made had to do with foreknowledge. Judas still was culpable. He could have repented.

Hi, James!

…well, he did!

It is interesting that many do not want to accept that in his diminished capacity Judas could not have come to the full understanding of Jesus; it is also interesting that many of those same people begrudge him for not being a “true” Believer.

I’ve heard/read the comparison (here and else where) of Judas’ betrayal to Peter’s denial… it seems that hindsight is truly wonderful as we can speculate and judge both the sinner and the One Whose Justice and Mercy must meet the sins and the sinners.

…the argument for Judas: the son of perdition did exactly what needed to be done; Jesus did not pray that he would awaken from his limited scope/knowledge/spirituality; Jesus allowed what was meant to happen to unfold; when the son of perdition begins to see the light, he attempts to undo his error; he does not seek the release of drugs/alcohol to numb the pain that awakens in him; when his master plan to undo his treachery fails he succumbs to impotence; his only recourse is to compensate, with his own life, the deed he committed against the Just One.

It is interesting how many people champion those who commit suicide–how far they are willing to stretch God’s Mercy, Patience, and Love towards those who reject God’s Providence… yet, Judas must suffer hell because man has determined that he did not partake of perfect contrition (let’s ignore that those same people continuously hold that Judas did not Know/Accept Jesus… yet, he should have known better!).

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jinglebelle]

Question is… if he hadn’t betrayed Christ, and Christ hasn’t died on the cross… what then?

That’s it,if it hadn’t been him,it would have to be another disciple.At that point the passion play was already running,the Christ would have needed someone/anyone to fulfil.They are all players,He descended into Hell so Judas is redeemed by your own faith

 

[James248]

Could is a tricky word here. He could have in that it was within his own power to do so or to continue down the path he was on. However, Jesus already knew that Judas would not.

Yes.

But let’s not forget that Jesus Himself gave Him many chances to repent there and then. He washed his feet. He made him sit at His right hand at table. Jesus treated Judas as one would a friend, yet Judas acted in contempt toward Him.

 

[jcrichton]

That’s it,if it hadn’t been him,it would have to be another disciple.At that point the passion play was already running,the Christ would have needed someone/anyone to fulfil.They are all players,He descended into Hell so Judas is redeemed by your own faith

Hi, jinglebelle!

…I caution against such flexibility… God’s Salvific Plan cannot be subjected to man’s whims and temperament; Judas was the “son of perdition;” the Twelve were not sons of perdition.

Conversely, Cephas was singled out as the one who would deny Jesus… while at the Shepherd being struck the sheep scattered (abandoned Him) only one had the opportunity do deny Him; the Word of God cannot be void!

…to inject such flexibility as “comme ci comme ça” is to place God’s Salvific Plan at man’s volatile and unpredictable disposition.

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[jcrichton]

Yes.

But let’s not forget that Jesus Himself gave Him many chances to repent there and then. He washed his feet. He made him sit at His right hand at table. Jesus treated Judas as one would a friend, yet Judas acted in contempt toward Him.

Hi, James!

…so no one else could handle the “purse?”

…it is obvious, from what you have described, that Judas was not working with a full tank of gas… so why do you suppose Jesus did not kick him to the curb?

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[Kaninchen]

If Reuben rather than Judah had come up with the selling Joseph idea, would there have had to be a disciple called Reuben Iscariot?

 

[Wesrock]

If Reuben rather than Judah had come up with the selling Joseph idea, would there have had to be a disciple called Reuben Iscariot?

lol!

It’s my understanding that Judas was an extra-popular name due to Judas Maccabee. Some have proposed that Judas Iscariot may have had zealot-like sentiments and became disillusioned when Jesus did not seem poised to lead a military revolt against the Romans (like the Maccabees did against the Hellens), though we can only speculate.

 

[jcrichton]

If Reuben rather than Judah had come up with the selling Joseph idea, would there have had to be a disciple called Reuben Iscariot?

Hi!

Great connection!

…yeah, all Sacred Scriptures would have had to be re-Inspired and re-Written every time man would go through one of his “changes!”

Maran atha!

Angel

 

[James248]

Hi, James!

…so no one else could handle the “purse?”

…it is obvious, from what you have described, that Judas was not working with a full tank of gas… so why do you suppose Jesus did not kick him to the curb?

Maran atha!

Angel

Scripture tells us that God doesn’t desire that ANYONE perish, but wants ALL to come to repentance. To me, it’s clear He wanted the same for Judas as well, even though He knew fully what path he would take.