Did Judas Iscariot ("The Son of Perdition") Have Redeeming Grace?

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I can’t tell you how many times that I have been caught in a charitable religious argument
about questions surrounding Judas Iscariot, one of Jesus Apostles.

In fact Jesus Himself called him the “Son of Perdition”
I heard people say that if he had sought forgiveness from Jesus he would have received forgiveness.

Judas Iscariot is said to have hung himself outside the gates of Jerusalem.
Was it guilt and remorse of coming to full realization of what he did?

Although debatable I have always wondered if Judas was fully cognizant in his understanding that Jesus was the Son of Almighty God?

In the time-line leading up to the crucifixion of our Lord, did Jesus die on the Cross before Judas hung himself or after.

If Judas hung himself before Jesus died on the Cross would that not pre-suppose Redeeming grace?

Would appreciate some answers
Thank You
 
well, definitely Judas could have been forgiven had he sought forgiveness. isn’t that what Jesus died for? for the forgiveness of ALL sins? Judas just removed the possibility of redemption when he killed himself.

Jesus called Peter, Satan, but eventually Peter was reconcilled.

was it guilt and remorse that brought Judas to kill himself? probably. he did feel guilty and tried to return the 30 pieces of silver

i always believed that Judas believed Jesus was the Son of God more than the others, but his concept of it was wrong. he gave Jesus up to force Jesus to wield His power and defeat all their enemies. but Jesus acted in humility and i think at that point Judas realized that the concept of the Messiah he had was wrong. he probably thought the same as the other Jews that the Messiah would be a conqueror who would free them from the Romans.
 
well, definitely Judas could have been forgiven had he sought forgiveness. isn’t that what Jesus died for? for the forgiveness of ALL sins? Judas just removed the possibility of redemption when he killed himself.

Jesus called Peter, Satan, but eventually Peter was reconcilled.

was it guilt and remorse that brought Judas to kill himself? probably. he did feel guilty and tried to return the 30 pieces of silver

i always believed that Judas believed Jesus was the Son of God more than the others, but his concept of it was wrong. he gave Jesus up to force Jesus to wield His power and defeat all their enemies. but Jesus acted in humility and i think at that point Judas realized that the concept of the Messiah he had was wrong. he probably thought the same as the other Jews that the Messiah would be a conqueror who would free them from the Romans.
i always believed that Judas believed Jesus was the Son of God more than the others, but his concept of it was wrong.
Not meaning to be argumentative but, I would have always thought that Peter and John would have been far more cognizant of Who Jesus was due to the fact that they were the only two apostles who witnessed the supernatural event of the Transfiguration of Jesus.
 
well, definitely Judas could have been forgiven had he sought forgiveness. isn’t that what Jesus died for? for the forgiveness of ALL sins? Judas just removed the possibility of redemption when he killed himself.

Jesus called Peter, Satan, but eventually Peter was reconcilled.

was it guilt and remorse that brought Judas to kill himself? probably. he did feel guilty and tried to return the 30 pieces of silver

i always believed that Judas believed Jesus was the Son of God more than the others, but his concept of it was wrong. he gave Jesus up to force Jesus to wield His power and defeat all their enemies. but Jesus acted in humility and i think at that point Judas realized that the concept of the Messiah he had was wrong. he probably thought the same as the other Jews that the Messiah would be a conqueror who would free them from the Romans.
well, definitely Judas could have been forgiven had he sought forgiveness. isn’t that what Jesus died for? for the forgiveness of ALL sins? Judas just removed the possibility of redemption when he killed himself.
I have to make the question…Was it the sole act of Judas committing suicide that Judas lost the redeeming grace to enter into Heaven?

OR

Was it the fact that Judas WAS the Son of Perdition that he lost any redeeming grace? Being the Son of Perdition meant that the soul of Judas from the moment of creation was Born and predestined to betray Jesus. I don’t think this is just a simple fact of being from the person-hood of Judas himself. Perhaps a mystery as far as human understanding. Someone from eternity had to actually set out and betray Jesus.

Despite the Godly gift of freedom in humans to choose good over evil or vice-versa does that not make human souls predestined to go to heaven or hell? There can be ONLY two choices. And God is All-Knowing
 
I can’t tell you how many times that I have been caught in a charitable religious argument
about questions surrounding Judas Iscariot, one of Jesus Apostles…

In fact Jesus Himself called him the “Son of Perdition”
I heard people say that if he had sought forgiveness from Jesus he would have received forgiveness…
Judas Iscariot is said to have hung himself outside the gates of Jerusalem.
Was it guilt and remorse of coming to full realization of what he did?

Although debatable I have always wondered if Judas was fully cognizant in his understanding that Jesus was the Son of Almighty God?

In the time-line leading up to the crucifixion of our Lord, did Jesus die on the Cross before Judas hung himself or after.

If Judas hung himself before Jesus died on the Cross would that not pre-suppose Redeeming grace?
“Have I not chosen all of you? But one of you is a devil!” Said Christ!

If you think about Jesus Casting out demons…why then was Judas so different? It was the decisions he made, free will that you cant stop… this was his actions. Deamed by the LORD as demonic.

“The Son of Man will be betrayed into the hands of sinners, but Woe unto that man through whom it happens…” Said Christ.

GOD’s Grace did not rest in Judas we know this because having tried hang himself, his body burst open into the field of blood, as recorded in Acts, later referred to as the son of Perdition…

Being a Jew, (Judas) and knowing the Law of Moses, He should have known the penalty for traitors is death… and judgement came.

My personal belief is that Judas didnt know Him to be the Son of God… Had he known this and acted thus would pose all manner of evils in my brain… Maybe this is so…I dont know…looking at his death…?

He was never saved, I think, but now, having act thus (betraying Christ) who will he seek forgiveness from? God I ask…? Was not God heart broken at the death of his son…? And turned darkness into the day (the eclipse also) at the crucifiction?

Had the Jews known, that He was the Christ, they would never have acted in such a manner. It was in ignorance. A veil (by GOD). Nevertheless the Christ had to suffer, as he later decreed through the Apostles. He had not rejected his people but because of their sins they did not know him. Christ will come again to fulfill all propehecy.

:cool:
 
It’s hard for me to tell for sure… Granted, he did accept money to deliver Jesus to the Jewish religious authorities. But after the fact, he went back to them saying, “I have sinned in delivering innocent blood.” It’s when they replied to him: " What does it matter to us? It’s your business." (Sounded like a washing of their own hands of it…) It seems that until then Judas thought the world of the Sanhedrin, and that their answer opened up his eyes. It is said that then he threw the money, probably in reaction to it, and then he went away to hang himself. So in the whole I don’t think I can tell…
 
Don’t get me wrong: I don’t think Judas’ exemple is one to follow, on the contrary. But as to his actual salvation or perdition, I leave it to God. We hope he didn’t get lost forever, but it’s not for us to decide… That’s how I see it.
 
Don’t get me wrong: I don’t think Judas’ exemple is one to follow, on the contrary. But as to his actual salvation or perdition, I leave it to God. We hope he didn’t get lost forever, but it’s not for us to decide… That’s how I see it.
But as to his actual salvation or perdition, I leave it to God. We hope he didn’t get lost forever, but it’s not for us to decide
I think you summed it up very well in a nut-shell. And verily true its not for us to decide. Like many numerous mysteries about God we are not meant to understand for many reasons, and the first and foremost bearing in mind humility.
 
I think if Jesus had said; ’ that one is perdition’ that would seal the deal. Since Judas is the son of damnation he has some wiggle room.
 
Not meaning to be argumentative but, I would have always thought that Peter and John would have been far more cognizant of Who Jesus was due to the fact that they were the only two apostles who witnessed the supernatural event of the Transfiguration of Jesus.
“The only two apostles”? Why do you leave out James, John’s brother? Not meaning to be argumentative either… (Unless you’d be one of the Franciscan school, just checking out if we are attentive…)
 
I just noticed, centurionguard, that you are writing from the same Canadian province as I… good to read you!
 
Here is what scripture says about Judas.

John 17:12 which says “While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of **them **is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.” Notice the reference to Judas. Judas is in the same group given to Jesus by the Father. This is the same language used in John 10:29 where it says,” My Father, who has **given **them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.” While no one can be snatched from the hand of Jesus or the hand of the Father, Judas was still lost. The only way that this can be properly understood is to see that while we have protection and we cannot be snatched from the hand of Jesus’ or the Father’s hand, we are still free to choose to leave that protection. It is for this reason that when we do rebel we must also repent. It is for this reason that the “repentant sinner that is rejoiced over in heaven is compared to a lost sheep.” It is for this reason that “if any one among you wanders from the truth and some one brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul[that of the sinner] from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”

It is important the do not make any mistakes about Judas and his position as an apostle. Judas was one of those that “believed” at the marriage feast of Cana[Jn 2:11]. Judas is present when Peter makes his public confession of faith and Jesus is revealed as the son of God[Matt 16:15-18]. Like the rest of the twelve, Judas has healed the sick and cast out demons while preaching that the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Judas has done these things by the power of the Holy Spirit[Matt 6:8-13, Mark 3:14-19 and Mark 6:13]. Judas was also present when Jesus gave the apostles as a group the “power to bind and loose” in Matthew 18:18. Judas believed and is one of the saved until he “betrayed” Jesus.

Judas is even referred to as “elect.”(Gk,eklegomai - Strong’s word # 1586 – Lk 6:13, Jn 6:70; cf. Mk 13:20, Jn 13:18, 15:16,19, Acts 1:2), and then falls away and is “apparently” (not definitively) damned.

In Matthew 14 we are told that Jesus tells the disciples[that is the twelve] to get into the boat and to cross to the other side of the sea. Jesus then walks on the water and Peter joins him and begins to sink beneath the waves as his faith falters. Jesus then helps Peter stay afloat and then they both get back into the boat. Once in the boat scripture tells us the following:
Matthew 14:33
“And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, ‘Truly you are the Son of God.’”
Judas worshiped Jesus and declared his faith by stating that Jesus was truly the son of God.

Judas was a believer but he “became” a betrayer.[Luke 6:16]

cont. on next post
 
cont. from prior post

In Matthew 19:28 we also read this:
"Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of man shall sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”
Obviously at that point in time, Judas was among the twelve and was going to be sitting on a throne with the rest of the twelve in heaven judging the twelve tribes of Israel. In the end that was not to be…Judas betrayed Jesus.

Jesus calls the apostles his friends. This includes Judas. He even individually refers to Judas as “friend” at the betrayal. Likewise we read this in Jn 13:18 in reference to Judas:

Jesus says: " I am not speaking of you all; I know whom I have chosen; it is that the scripture may be fulfilled, ‘He who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me.’"

This reference to the fulfillment of scripture leads us to Psalm 41:9 which says:

“Even my bosom friend in whom I trusted, who ate of my bread, has lifted his heel against me.”

Judas is referred to as a bosom friend. Judas “had” equal standing with the apostles which he traded for thirty pieces of silver.

Once Judas betrayed, Jesus, he still could have properly repented and been restored to salvation. Unfortunately, even though Judas repented before the chief priest and the elders in returning the thirty pieces of silver, he did not have a godly grief of repentance. His repentance was the “worldly repentance” that Paul says “leads to death as opposed to a godly grief that produces a repentance that leads to salvation.”[See 2 Cor 7:10]” This is the difference between the repentance of Peter after denying Jesus and the worldly repentance of Judas after the betrayal. Jesus even tells Peter that Satan wished to sift him like wheat but that He[Jesus] had prayed for him so that Peter’s “faith would not fail” and that when He[Peter] turned back to Jesus, that he was to strengthen his brothers.[See Luke 22:32] Peter and Judas both had free will and made their choices. God’s grace was there for them. Peter repented with a godly grief, Judas repented with a worldly grief.

Both Peter and Judas were believers, both had cast out demons and healed the sick by way of the Holy Spirit, and both were given power to bind and loose. Moreover, both were under the protection of Jesus and were given to Jesus by the Father. Neither Peter nor Judas was snatched from the hand of Jesus or the Father. Peter denied Jesus and temporarily chose to leave that protection, but he freely repented with a godly grief, whereas Judas freely chose to betray Jesus and in his own weakness chose a worldly grief that leads to death.

–After this Jesus and the disciples went to Jerusalem for the Passover.

*** Please note that scripture tells us in Luke 6:16 that:
“…Judas Iscariot,… became a traitor.”
Judas was not always a traitor and he was not always a son of perdition. He instead “became” a traitor and the son of perdition(i.e. a wicked man).

Chronologically scripture tells us when this happened:
–Luke 22:1-6
“Now the feast of Unleavened Bread drew near, which is called the Passover. And the chief priests and the scribes were seeking how to put him to death; for they feared the people. Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve; he went away and conferred with the chief priests and officers how he might betray him to them. And they were glad, and engaged to give him money. So he agreed, and sought an opportunity to betray him to them in the absence of the multitude.”
In Acts 1:24-25 when the Church prepared to choose a replacement for Judas Peter says the following:
"And they prayed and said, “Lord, who knowest the hearts of all men, show which one of these two thou hast chosen to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside, to go to his own place.”
Judas “turned aside” from that which was given him by God. Judas turned away from the gifts God gave to him through Jesus. Think about that…he turned away from the gift of salvation to go to his own place. This is exactly what each and everyone of us is “free” to do.
 
*6 And when Jesus was in Bethania, in the house of Simon the leper, 7 There came to him a woman having an alabaster box of precious ointment, and poured it on his head as he was at table. 8 And the disciples seeing it, had indignation, saying: To what purpose is this waste? 9 For this might have been sold for much, and given to the poor. 10 And Jesus knowing it, said to them: Why do you trouble this woman? for she hath wrought a good work upon me. *
*11 For the poor you have always with you: but me you have not always. 12 For she in pouring this ointment upon my body, hath done it for my burial. 13 Amen I say to you, wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, that also which she hath done, shall be told for a memory of her. 14 Then went one of the twelve, who was called Judas Iscariot, to the chief priests, 15 And said to them: What will you give me, and I will deliver him unto you? But they appointed him thirty pieces of silver. **16 And from thenceforth he sought opportunity to betray him. *

***This passage indicates the possibility that there was an underlying power struggle going on and Judas thought he had the support of the diciples.
 
21 And whilst they were eating, he said: Amen I say to you, that one of you is about to betray me. 22 And they being very much troubled, began every one to say: Is it I, Lord? 23 But he answering, said: He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, he shall betray me. 24 The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed: it were better for him, if that man had not been born. 25 And Judas that betrayed him, answering, said: Is it I, Rabbi? He saith to him: Thou hast said it.
This passage that closely follows also indicates the guilt of association present in the other diciples. Also bolded is the difference indiposition between them and Judas. Note that in another Gospel only Peter and John the beloved were confident eneough to ask who it was.
 
That is a good point and one which I will remember for the future.

God bless.
 
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