Did Judas receive the Eucharist at the Last Supper?

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CFSmith

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Hello all. I just signed up so that I could get some feedback on this question. Did Judas receive the Eucharist at the Last Supper?
I get a different picture in the different Gospels? I do need concrete cites not just opinions. 👍 Thanks for you help !!
 
In Luke 22:19, Christ says “Take this, all of you, and eat it. This is my body, which will be given up for you”.

He says “all of you”. I think this would mean Judas, too. Why was Judas allowed to partake of the Body and Blood of Christ? Because he hadn’t committed his betrayal yet.
 
Was Judas at the last Supper? I thought he had left Jesus after Jesus’ teaching the Eucharist in John 6, which was before the last supper right?
 
Judas did not leave the Twelve then, as he was most definitely present for the Last Supper. The other gospels all include Judas as being present at the passover meal.
 
Dr. Colossus:
Judas did not leave the Twelve then, as he was most definitely present for the Last Supper. The other gospels all include Judas as being present at the passover meal.
Thanks. That might explain why he experience such a devastating fall. He had received the Eucharist and did not believe…
 
Actually the Gospels are silent on this matter…

And the Church has not made any pronoucements on this either…

Now Dr C is correct when he states that the Gospels do not say when Judas left the Last Supper, was it before or after Jesus instituted the Eucharist…

With that said, we must remember that when the Gospels were written things were a bit different. The writings were not always chronological in order even when speaking of certain events.
 
Here’s Mark’s account from the NAB (Courtesy of the USCCB website):

:bible1: “And as they reclined at table and were eating, Jesus said, “Amen, I say to you, one of you will betray me, one who is eating with me.” They began to be distressed and to say to him, one by one, “Surely it is not I?” He said to them, “One of the Twelve, the one who dips with me into the dish. For the Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.” While they were eating, he took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, and said, “Take it; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and gave it to them, and they all drank from it.” Mark 14:18-23

You’re right, it doesn’t say specifically when Judas left, but it sounds to me like he was there.

-“one of you will betray me, one who* is eating* with me”
-“One of the Twelve”
-“While they were eating, he took bread”

From this I would conclude that the Twelve were present, they all shared the meal, during which Jesus instituted the Eucharist.
 
Dr. Colossus:
Here’s Mark’s account from the NAB (Courtesy of the USCCB website):

:bible1: “For the Son of Man indeed goes, as it is written of him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed. It would be better for that man if he had never been born.” " Mark 14:18-23
QUOTE]

You know, that one has always troubled me in Mass…because it raises that whole destiny kinda thing with me for poor Judas. Can anyone shed some insight on that for me? (Or should I start another thread?)

Jesus had to die to saver our souls. He had a choice to accept the cup or deny it. But His entire purpose for being on this earth was to die for us.

Isn’t that the same for Judas? He had a choice to betray or not…but wasn’t that his purpose for being on this earth as well? Why would Jesus say “better for that man if he had never been born” when God had to create this man in order to fulfill our salvation? He had to create Mary and Joseph and all the apostles, including Judas…so why the harsh wording toward Judas?
 
Well, the Gospel of John really doesn’t have the institution narrative in it it but read John 13:21-30.

But as I said, as it is not explicity stated and the Church doesn’t teach on this, we can not know…

The reason for this question coming up, is that some use this as an example that they should be allowed to recieve the Eucharist when they have unrepented/unconfessed grave sin…

I am not saying that CFSmith posted this question with this in mind, I just have heard it used in this matter…

The Church has not definitively answered this question.

I believe that both sides can find support in their argument.
 
The reason for this question coming up, is that some use this as an example that they should be allowed to recieve the Eucharist when they have unrepented/unconfessed grave sin…
That argument doesn’t work, as Judas had not betrayed Jesus at the time of the Last Supper. He could have received the Eucharist and repented prior to meeting with the Sanhedrin, or even just prior to leading them to Jesus in the Garden.
 
That argument doesn’t work, as Judas had not betrayed Jesus at the time of the Last Supper.
This is incorrect. The Last Supper is the exact time Satan enterered Judas and when Judas left to betray him. Also Judas had already betrayed Jesus in his heart much earlier by not believing in the words of Jesus in John 6. Judas was long gone from Jesus in his heart well before the actual act of handing him over according to Matthew 26:16.
Actually the Gospels are silent on this matter…
The Church has not definitively answered this question.
This is very incorrect. The Gospels are very clear on this as well as the Church. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read this in the Saints and Doctors of the Church, as well as from many priests and Catholic writers.

Please read my article on the Eucharist here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=4728

Remember, all four Gospels give the account of the Last Supper – the institution of the Eucharist. You have to put all of them together to get the complete understanding.

Matthew 26:17-30
Jesus specifically says that the one who dips his hand [with the bread of the Eucharist] in the bowl will betray Him. Judas says, “Surely not I, Rabbi” and Jesus says, “Yes, it is you”. Then Jesus consecrated the Eucharist and gave it to all of them.

Mark 14:12-26
Jesus says that, “one of you will betray me–one who is eating with me."
Then Jesus consecrated the Eucharist and gave it to all of them.

Luke 22:7-23
Jesus consecrated the Eucharist and gave it to all of them.
After he took the cup Jesus said, “But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table.”

John gives two accounts, one in John 6 where he points out that Judas was one of those that did not believe in the words of Jesus about eating His body and blood and the other is:
John 13: 1-30
Jesus says, “‘He who shares my bread has lifted up his heel against me.’”
Then Jesus says, “I tell you the truth, one of you is going to betray me."
John asked Jesus, “Lord, who is it?” 26Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. …. 30As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.

So we see that as soon as Judas took the bread of the Eucharist Satan entered him and he left to go betray Jesus. Why?

Because at that moment he brought down judgment upon himself because according to 1 Corinthians 11:28-30,

“anyone who eats and drinks without recognizing the body of the Lord eats and drinks judgment on himself.”

There are many more points of correlation that can be noted.

-Ric
 
I stand by my statement…
Actually the Gospels are silent on this matter…
And the Church has not made any pronoucements on this either…
As the Gospels do not explicitly state that Judas either did or did not recieve the Eucharist…

Also, the Church has not made any offical pronoucements on this matter… Yes the Church Fathers may discuss it, according to the Q&A section on EWTN St Augustine says that Judas recieved teh Eucharist…

What I mean by pronoucement is that the Church has made do dogmatic statement on this issue…
 
This is incorrect. The Last Supper is the exact time Satan enterered Judas and when Judas left to betray him. Also Judas had already betrayed Jesus in his heart much earlier by not believing in the words of Jesus in John 6. Judas was long gone from Jesus in his heart well before the actual act of handing him over according to Matthew 26:16.
So you’re saying that from that point on, there was absolutely nothing Judas could have done to prevent his actions with the Sanhedrin? Perhaps he decided to betray Jesus, but that decision in and of itself, while sinful, was not mortal. Christ could not lead anyone to sin. If Judas were in a state of mortal sin, and therefore unworthy to receive the Eucharist, Christ would not have given him the bread to eat.
 
Please read my edited post, I added some stuff.
As the Gospels do not explicitly state that Judas either did or did not recieve the Eucharist…
Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him

That is pretty explicit to me. Judas took and received the bread from Jesus, then Satan entered him. The spiritual judgment that Paul talks about in 1 Corinthians 11:28-30 came upon Judas which indicated that whether or not Judas actually ate the Eucharist does not matter. The fact that Judas received the Eucharist directly from Jesus Himself in state of unbelief and mortal sin was enough to incur the most severe judgment. The Gospels and the Church are very clear on these points. It’s been common Catholic teaching for 2000 years and does not need a Dogma to make it true. That would be ridicules. Remember there is much true Catholic theology that we believe that is not Dogma and does not need to be unless there is a great challenge by those in the Church so the Church is put in the position of making a true belief into a Dogma.

Ric
 
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vangrosh:
Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon. 27As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him
Ric,
It is widely held, if not unanimously held, that the Gospel of John does not contain the institution of the Eucharist because it lacks the Institutional Narrative.

The section you state, John 13:26-27, is not the Eucharist. John 13:21-26 corresponds to Matthew 26:21-25, Mark 14:18-21, and Luke 22:21-23.

If we look at those… We see that they are not the Eucharist as the Eucharist in Matthew starts at Matthew 26:26, in Mark 14:22, and in Luke 22:19-20.

Also, the Eucharist has nothing to do with the dipping of bread in oil, which is what Jesus is talking about in John 23:26 Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.

This happened during the meal, as we can see in Matthew and Mark… Luke places this after the Eucharist…

So here you can also see that chronological order is not as we have it in writing today.

It has not been common teaching for 2000 years as both sides have been talked about and written about…
 
So you’re saying that from that point on, there was absolutely nothing Judas could have done to prevent his actions with the Sanhedrin?
Did I ever say this? If God was still giving him grace, which I believe to be very probable, then Judas could have followed that grace at any time. Even in a mortal sin, God still gives us the grace to repent and turn back to him. That’s the whole point of the sacrament of confession.
Perhaps he decided to betray Jesus, but that decision in and of itself, while sinful, was not mortal.
Perhaps? Matthew 26:16 specifically says that Judas had already made up his mind and was just waiting for the right time. Jesus says in John 6:64, “Yet there are some of you who do not believe. For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him."… Then is verse 70 Jesus says, “Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!" 71He meant Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot…

So even before Judas arranged to betray Jesus he was in a state of unbelief (verse 64), and Jesus at this point in time says, “one of you IS a devil”. Notice Jesus did not say, “will become a devil”, but he said, “IS a devil”. How can Jesus be any more clear?
Christ could not lead anyone to sin.
Where does it say that Christ led him into sin?
If Judas were in a state of mortal sin, and therefore unworthy to receive the Eucharist, Christ would not have given him the bread to eat.
Your logic is very flawed and your statement goes against the most basic Eucharistic theology.
Christ through the Priest offers the Eucharist to all his body. It is up to us to receive Him worthily and in a state of grace. Again Christ does not ever deny anyone the Eucharist. If someone takes it in an unworthy manner, as Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 11 then that person eats and drinks judgment on themselves. You are trying to turn this around and put the judgment on Christ for giving the person the Eucharist when Christ knows they are unworthy! That is the complete opposite of what the Church teaches. The only time a Priest can deny the Eucharist is if the person is openly and publicly going against the clear teaching of the Church on a doctrine that binds the conscience of the believer and if it is clear that by going against this that person is in a state of public mortal sin. That is the very issue that is being discussed by the Bishops today. That is far different then the state of Judas who was in a state of private and personal mortal sin. Paul teaches that Jesus does offer Himself to those that are in a state of mortal sin and who take the Eucharist in an unworthy manner. That is why Paul teaches us not to do this. That is way Paul says that, “Many of you are sick and have died because you have done this”. Remember what happened to Judas? It led to his death, just as Paul said it can.

-Ric
 
The section you state, John 13:26-27, is not the Eucharist….
If we look at those… We see that they are not the Eucharist as the Eucharist in Matthew starts at Matthew 26:26, in Mark 14:22, and in Luke 22:19-20.
Did you even read my post where I gave you the particular verses? Read them in context and put them all together.

You are correct in saying John does not have the *words of the institution * of the Eucharist but John shows the eating of the Eucharistic meal.

John 13:26 says, “Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, son of Simon.” Verse 30 says, “As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.”
So if Judas had left earlier, before the consecration then that would be in direct conflict with Luke 22:7-23 because after Jesus consecrated the bread and gave it to all of them, he took the cup and said, “But the hand of him who is going to betray me is with mine on the table.”

This proves that the bread that Judas took and dipped in the bowl was the Eucharistic bread! And why else then did John point out that that is the exact moment when Satan entered him.

Matthew 26 and Mark 14 do not say that Judas received any bread before the consecration. Please read it again. They both say that the one who dips the bread (or hand) in the bowl will be the one. Then the very next thing Jesus does in both Matthew and Mark is get out the bread, consecrate it and give it to them. John takes it from there in John 13:26.

You are confusing the part when Jesus says that Judas will dip the bread Matthew 26:17 which is before the consecration, with the time that Judas actually takes the bread and dips it which isn’t until after the consecration because when Judas takes it, he leaves. John simply is describing the same Eucharistic meal, but leaves out the words of institution and focuses on the moment Jesus gives the Eucharist to Judas. Then after this Jesus says, “What you are about to do, do quickly,” (John 13:28) That is when Judas went out to prepare to betray Him that night.

Again, I can’t believe we are even having this discussion. This is Eucharist theology 101. I don’t know where you are getting your info, but it is most certainly not from the Catholic Church. The only people that have a hard time with harmonizing these particular points are Protestants. But Protestants don’t even see the Eucharist in John 6 so why should be pay attention to them on these points?

-Ric
 
Below is from the site of Catholic apologist Phil Porvaznik.

Now I have not ever heard these particular quotes for Augustine, but here Augustine is saying the same thing that I have been trying to communicate. He is saying the same things that have been taught by other Saints for 2000 years.

Augustine believes that Judas did in fact receive the Eucharist as also the scripture plainly teaches:

“In one part of his teaching St. Augustine is EMPHATIC that the identification of the elements WITH THE BODY AND BLOOD OF CHRIST is so COMPLETE that even the WICKED recipients of the Sacrament receive Christ’s body and blood as REALLY, though with different effects, AS THOSE who partake of the Sacrament WORTHILY.”

Thus in his book -On Baptism against the Donatists- he says –

“For as JUDAS, to whom the Lord gave the sop, allowed place in himself to the devil not by receiving what was evil but by receiving in an evil WAY, so one who receives the Sacrament of the Lord unworthily does not bring about that it is evil because he is evil or that he has received nothing because he has not received to salvation. For it is THE BODY AND BLOOD OF THE LORD NO LESS in the case of those of whom the Apostle said, “Who eats unworthily and drinks judgment to himself”’ [5:9].
Similarly in one of his -Sermons- he insists that it is possible to ‘EAT THE VERY FLESH’ and ‘DRINK THE VERY BLOOD’ of Christ in such a way as to ‘eat and drink judgment,’ and that there are two ways of ‘eating that flesh and drinking that blood,’ one of which leads to the recipient abiding in Christ and Christ in him, the other of which leads to judgment [Serm 71:17].”​

-Ric
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church in #1354 – 86 says the same thing as Augustine that we must prepare ourselves so we do not eat and drink judgment on ourselves. Then the Catechism quotes the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom which eludes that we must not take communion like Judas did. How can we be like Judas in taking communion if Judas never took communion?

1385 To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. St. Paul urges us to examine our conscience: "Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself."218 Anyone conscious of a grave sin must receive the sacrament of Reconciliation before coming to communion.

1386 Before so great a sacrament, the faithful can only echo humbly and with ardent faith the words of the Centurion: “Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbo, et sanabitur anima mea” (“Lord, I am not worthy that you should enter under my roof, but only say the word and my soul will be healed.”). 219 And in the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom the faithful pray in the same spirit:
O Son of God, bring me into communion today with your mystical supper. I shall not tell your enemies the secret, nor kiss you with Judas’ kiss. But like the good thief I cry, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

Judas went to the enemies of Jesus after he received the Eucharist. St. John Chrysostom is praying that we shall not do what Judas did. If this connection between Judas and communion from both an official Liturgy of the Church and from the official Catechism of the Catholic Church does not convince one of the theological implications of this matter, I don’t think anything will.

-Ric
 
if Judas had a problem other than betrayal, it was probably pride, to prideful to go to Jesus and ask forgiveness…

remember, Peter’s sin was probably almost as great (to deny Christ 3 times), but he went to Jesus and asked forgiveness…

all the difference in the world… remember, the only sins that can’t be forgiven are the ones we don’t ask forgiveness for… (sin against the Holy Ghost)??

👍
 
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