Did Judas take communion?

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emily47017

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maybe this is a stupid question. (it is a question though, not a challenge… please don’t hurt me…)

did judas participate in the last supper? i didn’t see anywhere in the first three gospels that he was absent during the breaking of the bread, and in john there wasn’t any supper, just jesus giving judas the bread to fulfill isaiah’s prophesy (something like: he who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me).

???

was the last supper the same as holy communion? if jesus knew that judas was in a state of sin, why did he get to partake? how does this relate to paul’s statement about taking communion unworthily?

what does the church say?
 
Q: Did Judas take communion?
A: YES.

He said to them, “It is one of the twelve, one who is dipping bread into the bowl with me. For the Son of Man goes as it is written of him, but woe to that one by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been better for that one not to have been born.” While they were eating, he took a loaf of bread, and after blessing it he broke it, gave it to them, and said, “Take; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, and after giving thanks he gave it to them, and all of them drank from it. He said to them, “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many (Mk 14:20-24, NRSV).

See also Mt 20: 20-30, Lk 22:17-23 and Jn 13:22-27.

There is not much use asking why did Jesus do what he did. God is not big into giving explanations,

God bless,

NowlFitz.
 
As far as I can tell, it’s not definitive whether Judas did or did not take communion. And as far as I can tell, the Church doesn’t say a whole lot on the subject because nothing inhibits any person, much less Judas, from taking communion unworthily. If Judas were to have received communion unworthily in the sight of the Son of God, are we not just as guilty when we take communion unworthily in the sight of the Real Presence?

Christ didn’t withhold the Eucharist from Judas. The reason why is simple: Christ loved all his disciples, even Judas - and I’m sure Christ prayed for Judas’ conversion many times! Allowing Judas to partake of communion was the final gift Christ could give Judas…

…and, in a way, it was a gift that deeply affected Judas, especially when Christ was crucified. Judas, understanding the connection between the meal shared in the Upper Room and what was happening to Christ, felt an utter despair for what he had done. Unlike ourselves, who when we commit sacrelige, Judas did not hope in the Lord and seek Christ with a contrite heart, but he continued to trust in himself.

Hope this sheds some more light on your question. It’s definitely helped me understand the issue more by thinking about it. 🙂
 
John 13:27
As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him.
 
Q: If Judas were to have received communion unworthily in the sight of the Son of God, are we not just as guilty when we take communion unworthily in the sight of the Real Presence?
A: No.
 
Q: If Judas were to have received communion unworthily in the sight of the Son of God, are we not just as guilty when we take communion unworthily in the sight of the Real Presence?
A: No.
Thanks for the elaboration.
 
So when Judas dipped his bread in the bowl, was the bowl filled with wine? Was Judas practicing intinction?
 
Satan’s sin is unforgiveable because Satan possessed the full revelation of God and rejected Him in spite of it. What more could God do? Jesus warned the Pharisees that they were in danger of this sin as well. How much more would Judas be in danger of this sin as one of the twelve? We know we bring our own condemnation when we receive unworthily.
 
So when Judas dipped his bread in the bowl, was the bowl filled with wine? Was Judas practicing intinction?
I don’t have my copy of the Seder meal at hand at the moment. However, I think there is a point at which the leader dips a bit of bread in the sauce and gives it to a favored guest, maybe more than once. This was not the point at which Jesus consecrated the bread.

As I recall this is somewhat before the third cup of wine, which appears to be the one that Jesus consecrated. If so then Judas did not receive Communion because he left at that earlier point.
 
maybe this is a stupid question. (it is a question though, not a challenge… please don’t hurt me…)

did judas participate in the last supper? i didn’t see anywhere in the first three gospels that he was absent during the breaking of the bread, and in john there wasn’t any supper, just jesus giving judas the bread to fulfill isaiah’s prophesy (something like: he who ate my bread has lifted his heel against me).

???

was the last supper the same as holy communion? if jesus knew that judas was in a state of sin, why did he get to partake? how does this relate to paul’s statement about taking communion unworthily?

what does the church say?
This is a great question because the Bible does not give an answer as to whether Judas left the Last Supper before or after He instituted Communion as the sign of remembering the new covenant. Even more, it is a great question because you looked into the gospels for the answer.

We do have differing views of the Last Supper from Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. I think you will see that we can get a good picture of what was going on and that when Judas took the piece of bread from Jesus that it was definitely not during communion. Of course, there is more to find in these passages and some people have mistakenly felt that there is a contradiction here.

Matthew tells us that Jesus said, “The one who has dipped his hand into the bowl with me will betray me."
Judas had already dipped his hand in the bowl. Some time after this communion was given.

Mark tells us: “When evening came, Jesus arrived with the Twelve. While they were reclining at the table eating, he said, “Truly I tell you, one of you will betray me—one who is eating with me.” They were saddened, and one by one they said to him, “Surely you don’t mean me?” “It is one of the Twelve,” he replied, “one who dips bread into the bowl with me…”
From this we know that Jesus told the disciples ahead of time how they would know who it would be.

Luke is silent on the issue of when Judas took the bread and when he left. Luke just tells us that Jesus had communion.

John gives us some great insights into what happened: After he had said this, Jesus was troubled in spirit and testified, “Very truly I tell you, one of you is going to betray me.”

His disciples stared at one another, at a loss to know which of them he meant. One of them, the disciple whom Jesus loved, was reclining next to him. Simon Peter motioned to this disciple and said, “Ask him which one he means.” Leaning back against Jesus, he asked him, “Lord, who is it?” Jesus answered, “It is the one to whom I will give this piece of bread when I have dipped it in the dish.” Then, dipping the piece of bread, he gave it to Judas, the son of Simon Iscariot. As soon as Judas took the bread, Satan entered into him. So Jesus told him, “What you are about to do, do quickly.”

So we see that Jesus told the disciples that one of them would betray him and that person would dip his hand in the bowl with Jesus. John is reclining against Jesus and Simon Peter motions to John to ask Jesus which one. Jesus tells John that it will be the one that Jesus gives the bread to. We know that John heard the answer but we don’t know if anyone else did. Jesus dips the piece of bread into the dish/bowl and Judas must be close enough that he dips his hand into the bowl at the same time. Judas asks if he is the betrayer and Jesus confirms this and sends him away.

To your other question, communion was given for the first time at the Last Supper but it was just a part of that event. The Last Supper and holy communion are not interchangeable. Please note that I am not Catholic and am not trying to speak for the Catholic viewpoint.
 
In school we’re studying the last supper. My teacher said that one of the gospels said something along the lines of:’ “I give this bread to the one who shall betray me” And Jesus gave the bread to Judas.’ So, yeah, he did participate.
 
St Ephraim the Syrian, doctor of the Church, on this matter said definitively NO, Christ did not give Judas the Eucharist. Rather, the LORD de-consecrated the Host by dipping it in water. I am not familiar enough with what constitutes changing the “matter” for the Sacrament, though I have heard of priests dissolving Hosts that people desecrated with water.
 
Q: If Judas were to have received communion unworthily in the sight of the Son of God, are we not just as guilty when we take communion unworthily in the sight of the Real Presence?
A: No.
I’m sorry but I must respectfully disagree. Scripture tells us to carefully examine ourselves before taking communion.

I Corinthians 11:
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

We are all sinners and therefore are all guilty. Only through the new covenant that is celebrated in communion are we saved, but it is our acceptance of God’s grace through Christ’s atoning death that saves us. Therefore we must consider our hearts each time we take communion because the word means “sharing in common” from the Latin word “communio” or “fellowship” from the Greek word κοινωνία. Personally, I don’t think Judas was present for communion, but if he were he would not have been in fellowship with Jesus. What is important is that we are in fellowship when taking communion.

P.S. I love Dublin and hope to go back there sometime.
 
In his recent New York Times best seller book, Jesus of Nazareth Vol 2, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI discusses this very subject and indeed he confirms that Judas DID take and eat the consecrated bread.

The Pope’s sad commentary on this incident is that it seems that so many today do exactly the same thing.
 
St Ephraim the Syrian, doctor of the Church, on this matter said definitively NO, Christ did not give Judas the Eucharist. Rather, the LORD de-consecrated the Host by dipping it in water. I am not familiar enough with what constitutes changing the “matter” for the Sacrament, though I have heard of priests dissolving Hosts that people desecrated with water.
From This Rock
Q:“Can the body of Christ turn back into bread again? I have come to believe that a child of the devil (1 Jn 3:8,10) can cause reverse transubstantiation to occur by going up to receive the body of Christ.”
A: The theological ramifications of your suggestion are mind-boggling. The only reason that the apostles and their successors could change bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ is because Jesus explicitly told them to and thereby gave them the power to do it. He did not give them or anyone the power to change his body and blood back into bread and wine. That power originates in him—not in them. He alone has control of the Eucharistic Presence. This is Catholic dogma and Catholics are obliged to hold to it.
First John 3:8 refers to someone who is in mortal sin. When such a person receives the Eucharist, the Eucharist is greatly dishonored and the person is guilty of sacrilege (see also 1 Cor 11:27-29). His sin does not have the power to cause “reverse transubstantiation.” There is no power on earth that can reverse what God has confected in the sacrament.
Q:“Since Judas’s betrayal of Jesus likely was a grave sin, why did Jesus give him Communion at the Last Supper? Or had Judas left the table by that point?”
A:If Judas did receive Communion—as Scripture appears to indicate (Lk 22:19-23)—then there may be any number of reasons why Christ allowed it even though he had already been plotting Christ’s betrayal (Lk 22:3-4). Two possibilities include: Christ may have hoped that the grace of Communion ultimately could save Judas’s soul. Judas did indeed feel remorse for what he did (Mt 27:3-4), although he chose the wrong means to demonstrate that remorse (Mt 27:5). Or perhaps Christ respected Judas’s free will, just as he respects our free will, and so did not deny Judas Communion even though he apparently did not have faith that it was Christ’s body and blood (Jn 6:66-71).
—Michelle Arnold
 
I’m sorry but I must respectfully disagree. Scripture tells us to carefully examine ourselves before taking communion.

I Corinthians 11:
27 So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. 29 For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. 30 That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep. 31 But if we were more discerning with regard to ourselves, we would not come under such judgment. 32 Nevertheless, when we are judged in this way by the Lord, we are being disciplined so that we will not be finally condemned with the world.

We are all sinners and therefore are all guilty. Only through the new covenant that is celebrated in communion are we saved, but it is our acceptance of God’s grace through Christ’s atoning death that saves us. Therefore we must consider our hearts each time we take communion because the word means “sharing in common” from the Latin word “communio” or “fellowship” from the Greek word κοινωνία. Personally, I don’t think Judas was present for communion, but if he were he would not have been in fellowship with Jesus. What is important is that we are in fellowship when taking communion.

P.S. I love Dublin and hope to go back there sometime.
+1

Don’t understand the comment about Dublin though. Most of our young people can’t emigrate out of this place quick enough! Myself included. I’d stay well clear of the sH1te hole that Ireland has become.:mad:
 
In his recent New York Times best seller book, Jesus of Nazareth Vol 2, His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI discusses this very subject and indeed he confirms that Judas DID take and eat the consecrated bread.

The Pope’s sad commentary on this incident is that it seems that so many today do exactly the same thing.
That makes a strong case, but not definitive. I think that Jesus of Nazareth, like Pope John Paul’s Crossing the Threshold of Hope, is to be regarded as the product of a skilled theologian, but is not intended as a papal declaration.
 
+1

Don’t understand the comment about Dublin though. Most of our young people can’t emigrate out of this place quick enough! Myself included. I’d stay well clear of the sH1te hole that Ireland has become.:mad:
My wife and I have visited Dublin twice, the last time in 2008. My perspective was that of a tourist. I know that there are major economic problems there and I pray for the people of Ireland just as for all other countries in these tough but exciting times. Whether it happens in our lifetime or not, today we are one day closer to the Lord’s return.
 
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