Did LDS Church contribute to restoration of Salt Lake Cathedral?

[ricko]

I can see what your mormon source is saying. Can’t you? The cross to the romans and to many civilizations even farther back was used as a tool of pain and humiliation. Much like an electric chair or any tool of death common today. Say guns were around and Jesus was executed by firing squad. Would catholics/protestants be wearing a symbol of a gun? we will never know. You must try to understand where people are coming from and not go through life with blinders. If you’ll study history even early christians did not use the symbol of the cross it was a fish. No where in the bible does it mention the symbol of the cross as the symbol for christianity. From my mormon source I was told that the early believers looked beyond the crucifixtion to the resurrection. Towards the promise of life given to all only through him. And I was told mormons do not focus on the crucifixtion although as vital as it was, they prefer to look towards that promise of life. does that sufficiently answer your question?

Actually the early Christians did use the cross. Evidence of the cross as a symbol of Christianity has been found in ancient ruins with one being found and in the news just yesterday. The fish was used out in the open for a mark of a Christian as the Romans did not know what it meant. They did know what the cross meant.

 

[AMDGtoo]

No where in the bible does it mention the symbol of the cross as the symbol for christianity.

Actually the New Testament mentions “Christ Crucified” quite a bit, same with the “Blood of the Cross”. Galatians 6:14 speaks of “glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ” and 1 Corinthians 1:23 states “we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness”.

And I believe that some graffitti of the cross was found that shows that the early Christians did in fact use the symbol.

Jesus chose the cross to bring salvation for many. (He didn’t have to–He was God–He could have commanded legions to save Him, but He chose not to. You really think that Christians would not honor the vehicle of our salvation? Think again. Immerse yourself in the history of the Church Jesus left us. Read the early Church Fathers and then perhaps you can tell the Mormons that the cross Jesus used to save us is not something to look down upon (and neither is the symbol.)

 

[Stephen168]

this is crazy. it all sounds like god loves me more than you cause my church gives more charity. Knock it off. really. Grow up. this is why there is so many problems because there is so little understanding and too much pride. And thats coming from a non religious person.

I agree but it was started by your fellow Mormon, falisrm

 

[ricko]

I agree but it was started by your fellow Mormon, falisrm

Not only that but falisrm started a thread " Catholic Church the only right one" as a troll and to stir up trouble.

 

[jbrdu08]

Actually the New Testament mentions “Christ Crucified” quite a bit, same with the “Blood of the Cross”. Galatians 6:14 speaks of “glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ” and 1 Corinthians 1:23 states “we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness”.

And I believe that some graffitti of the cross was found that shows that the early Christians did in fact use the symbol.

Jesus chose the cross to bring salvation for many. (He didn’t have to–He was God–He could have commanded legions to save Him, but He chose not to. You really think that Christians would not honor the vehicle of our salvation? Think again. Immerse yourself in the history of the Church Jesus left us. Read the early Church Fathers and then perhaps you can tell the Mormons that the cross Jesus used to save us is not something to look down upon (and neither is the symbol.)

I’m not talking about not mentioning christ curcified I’m talking about the cross as a symbol. Now in Gal. it does say the blood of the cross, but since when does wood bleed? It was the blood of christ that ran from the cross. I believe what is said in your refrences is that it is the death by the crucifixition of christ that is our salvation. Wood can not bring men salvation only the atoning blood of christ. And the symbol of the cross has been used for centuries, long before the birth of christ. The egyptians and greeks used the symbol in their own worship. and in the first two centuries after christ it was not widely used because it was still a method of public execution. It was really when constantine 1adopted the cross for his banner did it come widely accepted.

 

[AMDGtoo]

It was really when constantine 1adopted the cross for his banner did it come widely accepted.

Interesting, we learn from Tertullian that as early as the second century, the Christian Fathers had to defend themselves against the charge of being worshipers of the cross.

But, yes, until after Constantine the Christians were unable for the most part to freely practice their Faith–their enemies were out to kill them. (Hence the fish sign or the disguised cross as an anchor). But as far as I know, only the JWs and the Mormons (and they are both modern day religions) have rejected the cross.

 

[Stephen168]

It was really when constantine 1adopted the cross for his banner did it come widely accepted.

Are you a Mormon?

 

[zaffiroborant]

Are you a Mormon?

S/he says not, simply on a quest to chose a religion. I wonder what choice will win out???

 

[jbrdu08]

well, so is what I said about our salvation being through the blood of christ rather than the wood of the cross? I’m not downplaying the crucifixition- it was a vital part of the antonement, but what I’m trying to say is that I would rather look towards the promise of eternal life. I don’t see mormons having a problem with the cross, I think that is more of an assumption.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

well, so is what I said about our salvation being through the blood of christ rather than the wood of the cross? I’m not downplaying the crucifixition- it was a vital part of the antonement, but what I’m trying to say is that I would rather look towards the promise of eternal life. I don’t see mormons having a problem with the cross, I think that is more of an assumption.

I think they have a problem with it. They don’t use it in any of thier worship. They also liken it to a weapon. That sounds like a BIG problem.

 

[Stephen168]

S/he says not, simply on a quest to chose a religion. I wonder what choice will win out???

I was wondering because, Mormons, JWs, and SDAs seem to suffer from a Constantine fetish. An irrational understanding of Constantine in Christian history.

 

[RebeccaJ]

well, so is what I said about our salvation being through the blood of christ rather than the wood of the cross? I’m not downplaying the crucifixition- it was a vital part of the antonement, but what I’m trying to say is that I would rather look towards the promise of eternal life. I don’t see mormons having a problem with the cross, I think that is more of an assumption.

Salvation is through Jesus Christ, His suffering and death atoned for the sin of Adam, and all our sins. The Cross is where our Lord suffered and died. We do not discount this as part of Christ’s death because it is difficult to look at or contemplate, we seek to understand God suffering for us, because God is God, and could have chosen another way to set things right, but He chose a Sacrificial death.

Every Easter is a celebration of Christ’s victory over death. Every Sunday is a mini-Easter, where we celebrate Christ’s victory over death at Mass.

When we venerate the Cross, we are acknowledging the mystery of our faith: Christ has died, Christ is risen, Christ will come again.

We see no problem with you looking forwards to eternal life, as that is our promise, and our hope, which is only found through Jesus Christ. No lay-person who is Catholic is required to wear or venerate a cross.

Mormonism has softened its glare of the Cross. When I was being raised in the LDS faith, the Cross was seen as a symbol of Satan himself. Mormons tell me that there are Mormons wearing crosses these days. That is worlds biggest shocker to me, but a good thing. Maybe someday we’ll see them positioned on all the new steeples they’ve installed. The RLDS, now the Church of Christ, went that direction.

 

[ricko]

In 1986, people on a desert picnic discovered the ruins of a church near the city of Jubail, Saudi Arabia, while digging one of their trucks out of the sand. The church is believed to have been built prior to A.D. 400, making it older than most churches in Europe.
At the doorways to the sacristy, sanctuary, chapel, and the main entrance, stone crosses were attached to the wall. These four crosses, in place during the early excavation, disappeared in late 1986 or early 1987.

It is probable, though we have no historical evidence for it, that the primitive Christians used the cross to distinguish one another from the pagans in ordinary social intercourse. The latter called the Christians “cross-worshippers”, and ironically added, “id colunt quod merentur”, i.e. they worship that which they deserve.
Notice that it was only the pagans that had a problem with the cross.

 

[jbrdu08]

Look, you know you aren’t getting anywhere by saying mormons, JWs or any other variant of christianity is wrong. They will believe what they will. if mormons or JWs don’t chose to use the cross as their symbol oh well. Thats their choice, although they can’t deny the importance of the crucifixtion, it is not the part they chose to focus on. Does that make them wrong? No it doesn’t. They are within reasonable boundries of worship. By the way there is NO archaeological proof of the bible, only evidence. All the best research in the world and most advanced tools cannot prove it. So who is to say your right and they are wrong you yourselves have absolutely no proof only evidence.

 

[AMDGtoo]

if mormons or JWs don’t chose to use the cross as their symbol oh well. Thats their choice,…

Um, if I recall, we are just answering the accusation that early Christianity did not use the cross as a symbol. And yes, all we can do is give evidence. It’s up to the questioner to actually use that clear evidence to help him/her determine the obvious–proof if you will. And you are right–there are some that are unable to make that leap of logic. (I imagine that it’s a little like the old saying “you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink”.)

 

[jbrdu08]

Exactly. I could argue to you and give you evidence that the trinity does not exist as you know it and many other things about catholics/christians, but you wouldn’t accept anything I say. I could say the most logical thing in the world and there would be those who wouldn’t believe it. Thank you, YOU have proved my point. So let those cast the first stone eh?

 

[Donna_Mc]

Perhaps you might want to inform them of this. I was informed (by a Mormon) that showing any sort of deference for the cross was like “glorifying” an electric chair or any object of death. And you’ll note that there isn’t a cross on any of their ward buildings.

This is exactly what I was told by a friend of mine who became
Mormon.

 

[RebeccaJ]

well, so is what I said about our salvation being through the blood of christ rather than the wood of the cross? I’m not downplaying the crucifixition- it was a vital part of the antonement, but what I’m trying to say is that I would rather look towards the promise of eternal life. I don’t see mormons having a problem with the cross, I think that is more of an assumption.

From the CCC

**662 **“And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” The lifting up of Jesus on the cross signifies and announces his lifting up by his Ascension into heaven, and indeed begins it.

 

[BDawg]

Mormons give all kinds of reasons for not using the Cross as a visual symbol. Some of them were just made up by someone trying to think of a reason for the practice, while others have been given by Church leaders. Gordon Hinckley once said that we don’t use the Cross because we prefer to dwell on Jesus’ triumph over death, rather than his death, in our symbology, for instance.

But the problem isn’t that we don’t acknowledge a central role to Christ’s crucifixion. “And so it was made known among the dead, both small and great, the unrighteous as well as the faithful, that redemption had been wrought through the sacrifice of the Son of God upon the cross” (D&C 138:35).

In any case, I think many of these explanations, including Hinckley’s, are fine, but they sort of politely dodge what I see as the core issue. Lots of Christians have not just used the Cross as a symbol, but have venerated it in a way that smacks of idolatry to us. “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them” (Exodus 20:4-5). The Israelites didn’t interpret this to mean that they couldn’t use ANY statues or symbols, and that sort of thing. They had some in the Temple. But they didn’t bow down to those images. Contrast that with your typical Catholic entering a church and genuflecting to the Crucifix.

I know, I know–Catholics don’t see this as “worshiping” an image. I’m glad of that. But the commandment clearly says not to “bow down” to any likeness of anything. I understand that you guys don’t buy that argument, but I’m just trying to explain why I don’t think we use the Cross.

That is, you ruined if for us. JWs like to point out lots of Christian symbols (like Christmas trees and Easter bunnies) that are Christianized pagan symbols, but Mormons are usually fine with all that. Christmas would suck without Santa and all the rest, if you ask most of us. But I think we react differently to “paganized Christian symbols” like the Cross. So many hundreds of millions of people are used to genuflecting to Crucifixes, that it’s probably best to just tell them to lose the Crucifixes if they join us. Otherwise, I think there would be crosses all over Mormon buildings.

 

[AMDGtoo]

the commandment clearly says not to “bow down” to any likeness of anything.

Funny you should choose to mention that. You know that there are seventeen God-given commands mentioned in Exodus 1-17 (The Ten Commandments), but we know that there were only ten commandments, and since “Thou shalt not bow down” refers to a manmade image, and we know that since some manmade images were actually on the Temple or even commanded by God, the “Thou shalt not bow down” was an explanation of a commandment–not a commandment in itself. So we look for that Commandment it explains. Why it’s “Thou shalt have no other gods before me” (Exodus 3). I guess that brings us to how many gods Mormons claim there are (talk about pagan belief)–not anything about the chosen vehicle for our salvation (the cross).