Did Luke know Mary in person?

  • Thread starter Thread starter minichibi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

minichibi

Guest
IF the author of the Gospel of Luke was indeed Luke, and Luke was Paul’s companion, and Paul knew Mary. Is it possible (and probable, and likely) that Luke met Mary in person (and got all the birth stories directly from her mouth), even if he wrote the Gospel several years after Mary passed away?
 
Luke has been through Ephesus in one of his journeys. It is not very far off that he paid the Mother of our Lord a visit and even “interviewed” her to get the details he has in his Gospel.
 
Luke has been through Ephesus in one of his journeys. It is not very far off that he paid the Mother of our Lord a visit and even “interviewed” her to get the details he has in his Gospel.
Yes, it is quite possible that he at least met her and “interviewed” her, as ConstantineTG says. That would explain how he got so many details about the nativity and birth of Jesus
 
Who did “Matthew” interview…the two nativity stories are incompatiple as written.
 
Who did “Matthew” interview…the two nativity stories are incompatiple as written.
The gospels are not the biography of Jesus, but the story of salvation through Christ. Therefore there is no issue of “non comparability”.
 
There was a time recently when I did question Luke’s long account and wondered “where did that come from?”

Now with some reasoning and helpful understanding I believe there is nothing “legendary” in the gospels and little if any embellishing.

Therefore IMHO Luke’s account… if NOT having contact with BVM would make it much more legend than accurate.

There are other accounts in the gospels that no one was within earshot or eye-shot of the events reported. I just accept them.
 
Who did “Matthew” interview…the two nativity stories are incompatiple as written.
Matthew was an apostle chosen by Jesus who knew Him personally. Matthew knew scripture well, and takes care to point out how Jesus fulfilled ancient prophecies about the Messias.

The reason the two geneologies in the four Gospels differ, is that one gives Mary’s ancestry and the other Joseph’s; but the point is that both show Joseph and Mary as descended from the royal House of David, of the tribe of Judah.
 
Matthew was an apostle chosen by Jesus who knew Him personally. Matthew knew scripture well, and takes care to point out how Jesus fulfilled ancient prophecies about the Messias.

The reason the two geneologies in the four Gospels differ, is that one gives Mary’s ancestry and the other Joseph’s; but the point is that both show Joseph and Mary as descended from the royal House of David, of the tribe of Judah.
The stories are incompatible with one another…

In Luke, the story focuses on getting the couple to Bethlehem…in Matthew…it appears they already live in Bethlehem as they are visited by Magi in the “house”.

In Luke they go back to Nazareth after Jesus is dedicated in the Temple…In Matthew they flea Herod to Egypt…the “reason” "Matthew gives them going to Nazareth is not because that is their home town…but because of a prophesy that never really indicated a “town”…but “Matthew” believed them going to Nazareth fulfilled “He shall be called a Nazarene”…

I do not find the birth narratives historical…“Mark” knew nothing of them…or if he did, didn’t consider it important enough to include…Neither did “John”…nor Paul.

The geneologies from the text do not confirm at all…"one was Mary’s and the other Joseph’s…Joseph’s genology would mean nothing since Jesus was not Joseph’s son or related to him by blood…in Luke…Joseph went before the Lord in the Temple and presented Jesus as his son…which seems strange to me…because he wasn’t according to the narrative.

They are not eyewitness accounts…no one “interviewed” Mary…in fact components of both narratives have parallels in OT stories of the birth of the great heroes…but them…I’m “heretical” in my beliefs anyway.🙂
 
The stories are incompatible with one another…

In Luke, the story focuses on getting the couple to Bethlehem…in Matthew…it appears they already live in Bethlehem as they are visited by Magi in the “house”.
The star appeared only at the birth of Christ. It would have taken the Magi a long time to get there, anytime between a few weeks up to two years. Why would Herod have male children age 2 and under killed if the Magi arrived within hours or days of seeing the star? It would have made sense to just have newborns killed.
In Luke they go back to Nazareth after Jesus is dedicated in the Temple…In Matthew they flea Herod to Egypt…the “reason” "Matthew gives them going to Nazareth is not because that is their home town…but because of a prophesy that never really indicated a “town”…but “Matthew” believed them going to Nazareth fulfilled “He shall be called a Nazarene”…
The fleeing also happened when Jesus was much older. Going to the temple should be done on the 8th day according to Jewish law.
I do not find the birth narratives historical…“Mark” knew nothing of them…or if he did, didn’t consider it important enough to include…Neither did “John”…nor Paul.
The Bible isn’t mean to give a full historical accounting of all the events. That is how we think today, but not back then. Even the style of writing is typical of their time where narratives seem to just flow from one story to the next without regards of the actual timing. Back then people care less about the minute-by-minute events as we do today.

Remember also that each Gospel was written for a purpose, not necessarily a general historical account of things. John’s Gospel focused on affirming the divine nature of Christ. You will see this theme continue into the Apocalypse which he also wrote.
The geneologies from the text do not confirm at all…"one was Mary’s and the other Joseph’s…Joseph’s genology would mean nothing since Jesus was not Joseph’s son or related to him by blood…in Luke…Joseph went before the Lord in the Temple and presented Jesus as his son…which seems strange to me…because he wasn’t according to the narrative.
The genealogies are presented in a way that make sense to the target audience at the time. Again, try not to read them from a 21st century wired world perspective. These are 1st century Jews and Greek Gentiles we are talking about here, it was a different time and a different culture.
They are not eyewitness accounts…no one “interviewed” Mary…in fact components of both narratives have parallels in OT stories of the birth of the great heroes…but them…I’m “heretical” in my beliefs anyway.🙂
I don’t think Luke would have asked for a CNN-type of eyewitnes account from Mary anyway. Think of it this way, you go visit someone and you tell stories about each other. Luke probably didn’t come to Mary as a Gospel writer. The Apostles adored Mary and would pay her homage every so often. Luke would have come with Paul and probably had a casual conversation about it.
 
From an article…don’t have the source…I copied it from a “Draft” file I have.

**"“Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”

The Greek word for “seed” is “sperma” [Strongs#4690]
Only males have “sperma” and woman do not.
“according to the flesh;” indicates a human progenitor.

Paul wrote that Jesus had a male progenitor or father who was a descendant of King David.

But the Gospel writers Matthew and Luke wrote that Jesus had a virgin birth by Mary through the Holy Spirit who is not a flesh human and not a descendant of King David."**

Must have had the discussion with Luke after he wrote Romans.🙂
 

**"“Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”

The Greek word for “seed” is “sperma” [Strongs#4690]
Only males have “sperma” and woman do not.
“according to the flesh;” indicates a human progenitor…**
Someone forgot to explain that to God
14* The LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, cursed are you above all cattle, and above all wild animals; upon your belly you shall go, and dust you shall eat all the days of your life. 15 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heel.”
Genesis 3:14-15
 
From an article…don’t have the source…I copied it from a “Draft” file I have.

**"“Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;”

The Greek word for “seed” is “sperma” [Strongs#4690]
Only males have “sperma” and woman do not.
“according to the flesh;” indicates a human progenitor.

Paul wrote that Jesus had a male progenitor or father who was a descendant of King David.

But the Gospel writers Matthew and Luke wrote that Jesus had a virgin birth by Mary through the Holy Spirit who is not a flesh human and not a descendant of King David."**

Must have had the discussion with Luke after he wrote Romans.🙂
I think this is a Hebrew / Aramaic <–> Greek translation issue. Remember back that time, Paul used the scriptures from the Septuagint, which was translated from Hebrew into Greek in order to be part of the collection of the Library of Alexandria:

From the Septuagint, we have:

Gen 3:15 καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν (kaí échthran thí̱so̱ aná méson sou kaí aná méson tí̱s gynaikós kaí aná méson toú spérmatós sou kaí aná méson toú spérmatos a̓f̱tí̱s a̓f̱tós sou ti̱rí̱sei kefalí̱n kaí sý ti̱rí̱seis a̓f̱toú ptérnan)

now translated to English:
Gen 3:15 " And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Please note that here the word for a woman’s “seed” is the same word for the male “seed” in the Greek translation, as well as the same word used by Paul. So, Paul might as well have meant that Mary was also a descendant of King David herself.
 
I think this is a Hebrew / Aramaic <–> Greek translation issue. Remember back that time, Paul used the scriptures from the Septuagint, which was translated from Hebrew into Greek in order to be part of the collection of the Library of Alexandria:

From the Septuagint, we have:

Gen 3:15 καὶ ἔχθραν θήσω ἀνὰ μέσον σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῆς γυναικὸς καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματός σου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τοῦ σπέρματος αὐτῆς αὐτός σου τηρήσει κεφαλήν καὶ σὺ τηρήσεις αὐτοῦ πτέρναν (kaí échthran thí̱so̱ aná méson sou kaí aná méson tí̱s gynaikós kaí aná méson toú spérmatós sou kaí aná méson toú spérmatos a̓f̱tí̱s a̓f̱tós sou ti̱rí̱sei kefalí̱n kaí sý ti̱rí̱seis a̓f̱toú ptérnan)

now translated to English:
Gen 3:15 " And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel."

Please note that here the word for a woman’s “seed” is the same word for the male “seed” in the Greek translation, as well as the same word used by Paul. So, Paul might as well have meant that Mary was also a descendant of King David herself.
The Protoevangelium of James says that Mary is from the House of David as well.
 
Both statements are true. Jesus was/is both God and man. He was in eternity begotten of the Father, --and in time he was born of the Virgin Mary (who conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit) who was descended from King David, the same bloodline as his step-father Joseph who was his legal though not his biological father.

As a friend of mine (a philosopher) has noted, " In God, the opposite of one truth is not a falsehood; it is merely another truth." 😉
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top