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Dianne_Schiltz
Guest
Is Mahatma GAndhi going to heaven? He was Hindu. What is Catholic teaching on this?
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1ke
Guest
Only God and Gandhi know the answer to this question.
The Church doesn’t have a teaching on any individual person’s final destination, except for canonized Catholic saints.
In general, the Church teaches that Christ instituted baptism as necessary for salvation. God might work outside of the sacraments. We don’t know when and how.
See these sections of the Catechism, especially starting at paragraph 839:
vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P29.HTM
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Sufjon
Guest
Hi 1ke: In Hinduism there is no place called heaven as known in the Christian sense. You don’t gain or get denied admittance to it. It is seen as a state of being that you attain, and once this is done, you are free from the cycle or births and deaths. It is a rather complex concept. It is believed that you go from lifetime to lifetime carrying the karma and samskara of past lives with you until you reach a point where you accrue no more bad karma and no more good karma. No karma at all. First, all samskara (or habits and proclivities) developed over many lifetimes have to be lost, and this leads a soul into a state of liberation called moksha, which is a Sanskrit term which basically means to be free from desire and attachment. Same idea as “the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” Want and attachment is the key to all suffering. Once you are free from this, you can attain enlightenment and enter a state of heavenly bliss that transcends this life and the afterlife. The borders between the two no longer matter, and you live forever in the realization of your oneness with the Lord. We believe there is but one great soul in all the universes, and each of us is a part of it. The only sin is falling prey to the illusion that we are somehow separate from God. We believe that at the very core of our being, He is not someone other than yourself. Our brains and sense organs give the illusion that we are some sort of independent beings. The human race, the planet we live on, our solar system, our galaxy, our universe is all one huge organism. This is explained in detail in the Upanishads. Some of our sacred texts such as the Bhagavad Gita and Uddhava Gita give specific instructions on how to go about working toward the attainment of this state of being where the realization of this becomes known to the devotee.
Gandhiji did not believe he was going to a place called heaven, nor do I. He believed that he was working his way toward the attainment of this heavenly state of being. The simple answer to the question is no, Mahatma Gandhi is not in a place called heaven. We do not believe in a permanent hell, for in the Gita the Lord says “surely you will attain me.” For us, it is just a matter of time, and no one is held to ransom. We believe that God is no fool - He loses nothing, including you.
As a disclaimer: I am telling you what we believe and not suggesting that you believe it or accept it.
To the contrary, I am telling you to stick to whatever faith you like - just be true to whatever it is.Your friend
Sufjon
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Publisher
Guest
As with all people…the Universal saving Light of Christ Within completes the work of salvation to all who respond to the Light Within.
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Dianne_Schiltz
Guest
Thank you!
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1ke
Guest
Having asked this question on a Catholic discussion forum, one can surmise that the OP was looking for what the Catholic Church teaches, not what Hinduism teaches.
Hinduism does not hold the Truth regarding God and our eternal destiny.
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Tsuwano
Guest
Amen! If someone like Mahatma Gandhi is not with God, what hope is there for me? Only God’s grace and mercy complete me.
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Sufjon
Guest
Fair enough. Thanks for setting me straight on that.
You are free to say and think what you will, although it doesn’t make you right. In this case it only makes you assertive, and an excellent example of the sort of behavior that prompted Ghandi’s most famous quote about Christians.
Your friend,
Sufjon
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rick43235
Guest
Point, Sufjon.
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MGLechner
Guest
Does such a question really have a place on this forum? It is not for us to judge the fate of another. For all we know, Gandhi was probably closer to God than many of us who post on this forum.
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Sufjon
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benidict
Guest
his religion aside. i cant judge the mans eternal destiny. but…yes the big BUT. he did shun his wife from thier marriage bed, and liked to sleep nude with 12 year old girls. when his wife fell ill, he denied her medical care, and she died miserably. when he took sick, he hired the best physicians he could get. he was not a very nice man. hopefully, he repented at the end of his life. i dont see much of a difference between him and some others we have serious problems with on moral grounds. hugh hefner for example. Peace
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benidict
Guest
hi Sufjon. Hindus are in search of Nirvana are they not? which is similar to bnai in Kabballah. to become one with the great ALL. they wish to get off the wheel of reincarnation and suffering, correct? i have read the teachings of Buddha, and that is some deep stuff! i actually had to put the book down, i was starting to “get it.” i do not agree with him on the eternal state of things, but i do think he tapped into some truth, that many miss. PeaceHi 1ke: In Hinduism there is no place called heaven as known in the Christian sense. You don’t gain or get denied admittance to it. It is seen as a state of being that you attain, and once this is done, you are free from the cycle or births and deaths. It is a rather complex concept. It is believed that you go from lifetime to lifetime carrying the karma and samskara of past lives with you until you reach a point where you accrue no more bad karma and no more good karma. No karma at all. First, all samskara (or habits and proclivities) developed over many lifetimes have to be lost, and this leads a soul into a state of liberation called moksha, which is a Sanskrit term which basically means to be free from desire and attachment. Same idea as “the Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want.” Want and attachment is the key to all suffering. Once you are free from this, you can attain enlightenment and enter a state of heavenly bliss that transcends this life and the afterlife. The borders between the two no longer matter, and you live forever in the realization of your oneness with the Lord. We believe there is but one great soul in all the universes, and each of us is a part of it. The only sin is falling prey to the illusion that we are somehow separate from God. We believe that at the very core of our being, He is not someone other than yourself. Our brains and sense organs give the illusion that we are some sort of independent beings. The human race, the planet we live on, our solar system, our galaxy, our universe is all one huge organism. This is explained in detail in the Upanishads. Some of our sacred texts such as the Bhagavad Gita and Uddhava Gita give specific instructions on how to go about working toward the attainment of this state of being where the realization of this becomes known to the devotee.
Gandhiji did not believe he was going to a place called heaven, nor do I. He believed that he was working his way toward the attainment of this heavenly state of being. The simple answer to the question is no, Mahatma Gandhi is not in a place called heaven. We do not believe in a permanent hell, for in the Gita the Lord says “surely you will attain me.” For us, it is just a matter of time, and no one is held to ransom. We believe that God is no fool - He loses nothing, including you.
As a disclaimer: I am telling you what we believe and not suggesting that you believe it or accept it.
Your friend
Sufjon
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manualman
Guest
It’s certainly interesting to hear what hindus believe about the afterlife. I don’t think the other poster was trying to be rude, just to point out that the hindu answer was to a question not asked.
If God is who Christianity says he is, then Ghandi’s beliefs about the afterlife during his life on earth are a rather moot point once he died and actually met his Creator!
As others have mentioned, we know what we know about God by what He has revealed about himself. We know that in Jesus he established a path to salvation by Grace as taught in the catholic faith. We really DON’T know what fate might lie in store for those who through no real fault of their own were unable to aprehend those truths as divinely revealed. All we know for sure is that neither Ghandi nor anybody else around us can be good enough on his own merits and willpower to objectively deserve heaven. The only hope for ANY of us is Mercy.
If God is who Christianity says he is, then Ghandi’s beliefs about the afterlife during his life on earth are a rather moot point once he died and actually met his Creator!
As others have mentioned, we know what we know about God by what He has revealed about himself. We know that in Jesus he established a path to salvation by Grace as taught in the catholic faith. We really DON’T know what fate might lie in store for those who through no real fault of their own were unable to aprehend those truths as divinely revealed. All we know for sure is that neither Ghandi nor anybody else around us can be good enough on his own merits and willpower to objectively deserve heaven. The only hope for ANY of us is Mercy.
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Sufjon
Guest
Hi Benedict: It’s good to hear from you again. We don’t actually use the term Nirvana, but the idea is pretty much the same. The Gautama Buddha was from India, so his ideas were not that far from what we believe. He focused more on technique and because of this, he never mentioned God. As his following moved to lands east of the Himalayas, it took on more of a no-God aspect, but we do not believe that was his intent. We very much believe in one God, although we believe the forms He takes on are endless. Specifically, we believe there is nothing that is not Him. For us Nirvana is the realization of this, but not on an intellectual level. It is at a much deeper level of consciousness that is normally masked by our lower consciousness that we experience everyday in the form of interactions between sense organs and the brain. So, rather than cal it Nirvana, we would call it things like Self-realization (realization of the greater Self within you). To get there, you have to achieve Moksha, which is freedom from want and desire. Not repression of want or desire, for instance being celibate when you really would rather have sex, or not eating junk food but still craving it. It is a state where you have transcended such desires. It is also a state where you transcend attachment, and this is where the devotee now sees all things as part of his or herself, and therefore no one receives a special level of love. It is equally felt for all. So, you have love of your husband or wife and children as a basic level of spirituality, and then higher levels where the devotee is able to expand that same level of love outward to others outside of his or her family. Eventually, the devotee sees God in all people and then all creatures and then in all things. I see a confluence between that idea and the time when your Jesus said to love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself. I think He said that because they are in fact all the same thing - God experiencing what He creates through the things He creates. Through a fish He experiences the physical reality of swimming, He experiences flying through a bird, and the capacity for higher thought and creativity through humans. But at the core, they all share one consciousness, hidden by the sense experiences themselves. Once people experience this oneness, it is understood on a level much deeper than the realm of our customary experience. The practices employed to achieve this are very well mapped out. They are rigorous and require a good deal of tenacity. We believe that for each creature a lifetime eventually comes where one is ready to achieve this. We believe that In this lifetime or any given lifetime you may be an atheist or whatever, but in some lifetime you will get the picture. That is why we never try to convert people to our faith. It is also why there has been very little success in converting us to other faiths. We see them all as part of the path that each piece of God takes to find it’s way back. It is these infinite paths taken by countless creatures that enable God to experience what He makes, so we do not disturb them.hi Sufjon. Hindus are in search of Nirvana are they not? which is similar to bnai in Kabballah. to become one with the great ALL. they wish to get off the wheel of reincarnation and suffering, correct? i have read the teachings of Buddha, and that is some deep stuff! i actually had to put the book down, i was starting to “get it.” i do not agree with him on the eternal state of things, but i do think he tapped into some truth, that many miss. Peace
I told you it was hard to explain. Long-winded too!
Your friend,
Sufjon
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Xuan
Guest
Hi Sufjon,
I’ve been reading your posts for several months now, and I have learned a great deal. It’s interesting reading other peoples’ perspectives, and I appreciate you sharing yours.
I have a question, though. You talked about achieving Moksha, which is freedom from want and desire. I guess Buddhists would call it freedom from attachments. What about wants and desires that are considered good? What about the desire to learn, or the desire to communicate with others? Is the idea to get to a point where you can simply take it or leave it?
I don’t quite understand. I would greatly appreciate any insight you can give me on this.
Xuan
I’ve been reading your posts for several months now, and I have learned a great deal. It’s interesting reading other peoples’ perspectives, and I appreciate you sharing yours.
I have a question, though. You talked about achieving Moksha, which is freedom from want and desire. I guess Buddhists would call it freedom from attachments. What about wants and desires that are considered good? What about the desire to learn, or the desire to communicate with others? Is the idea to get to a point where you can simply take it or leave it?
I don’t quite understand. I would greatly appreciate any insight you can give me on this.
Xuan
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benidict
Guest
no, you did a very good job Sufjon. thank you. do somewhat understand this, due to my studies of Kabballah. they have what is called B Nai meditation. it is experiencing the all and nothing of the Creator. i think you may understand this much better than others. also they teach equanimity. that no matter what, you are not swayed in your emotions, and can practice true compassion. weather a person curses you, or praises you makes no difference. it should affect you one in the same. this way, you can practice charity with a proper motive, and not to please men. it is the same mindset i get into, when battle is a real possiblity. i do not take the enemies hostility or anger personally. they are doing their job, i am doing mine. when i step into the ring with someone, its the same. no personal feelings, just deal with them in a way, that leaves emotion out of it. this way, i can also feed an enemy, or give them a cup of water, with no animosity, or other negative feelings. when we an get rid of our ego, we are truly free. Peace to you and yours.Hi Benedict: It’s good to hear from you again. We don’t actually use the term Nirvana, but the idea is pretty much the same. The Gautama Buddha was from India, so his ideas were not that far from what we believe. He focused more on technique and because of this, he never mentioned God. As his following moved to lands east of the Himalayas, it took on more of a no-God aspect, but we do not believe that was his intent. We very much believe in one God, although we believe the forms He takes on are endless. Specifically, we believe there is nothing that is not Him. For us Nirvana is the realization of this, but not on an intellectual level. It is at a much deeper level of consciousness that is normally masked by our lower consciousness that we experience everyday in the form of interactions between sense organs and the brain. So, rather than cal it Nirvana, we would call it things like Self-realization (realization of the greater Self within you). To get there, you have to achieve Moksha, which is freedom from want and desire. Not repression of want or desire, for instance being celibate when you really would rather have sex, or not eating junk food but still craving it. It is a state where you have transcended such desires. It is also a state where you transcend attachment, and this is where the devotee now sees all things as part of his or herself, and therefore no one receives a special level of love. It is equally felt for all. So, you have love of your husband or wife and children as a basic level of spirituality, and then higher levels where the devotee is able to expand that same level of love outward to others outside of his or her family. Eventually, the devotee sees God in all people and then all creatures and then in all things. I see a confluence between that idea and the time when your Jesus said to love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself. I think He said that because they are in fact all the same thing - God experiencing what He creates through the things He creates. Through a fish He experiences the physical reality of swimming, He experiences flying through a bird, and the capacity for higher thought and creativity through humans. But at the core, they all share one consciousness, hidden by the sense experiences themselves. Once people experience this oneness, it is understood on a level much deeper than the realm of our customary experience. The practices employed to achieve this are very well mapped out. They are rigorous and require a good deal of tenacity. We believe that for each creature a lifetime eventually comes where one is ready to achieve this. We believe that In this lifetime or any given lifetime you may be an atheist or whatever, but in some lifetime you will get the picture. That is why we never try to convert people to our faith. It is also why there has been very little success in converting us to other faiths. We see them all as part of the path that each piece of God takes to find it’s way back. It is these infinite paths taken by countless creatures that enable God to experience what He makes, so we do not disturb them.
I told you it was hard to explain. Long-winded too!
Your friend,
Sufjon
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Sufjon
Guest
Hi Xuan, and thank you for the kind response. You have a really good question. It was one of the first ones I ran into years ago, and the answer involves on of the most difficult aspects of our path. In our scriptures, the Lord calls upon us to perform our duties without attachment to the outcome. He asks us to give the outcomes (whether successful or not) as an offering of love to all others and to Him. Not an offering of worship, but an offering of love. The idea is that one achieves heaven by being involved in caring about others and not about yourself. So by doing things like learning or communicating, you are performing important endeavors. Again, this is what we believe so I’m not preaching, but we are to give the outcomes of what we do to the world around us, the people around us, and to God. We are free to enjoy every minute of it, but we are asked to try to avoid becoming attached to the enjoyment. We are asked to watch ourselves like an observer, the idea being that the soul observes what the person does, but not getting tied up in the drama. We can feel joy, sorrow and all of that, but the idea is to let it flow through you as you live in the moment. You feel happy because your friend kissed you, now let it pass and feel sorrow when someone lies to you the next minute. Just be there in the minute, take it as it comes and move on to the next minute. The trick is to be fully present in the here and fully present in the now. I am saying this like it’s easy. It isn’t. It takes a lot of practice and work, but over time you start to see it happen. I hope that somewhat answers your question. You happened to zero right in on one of the most difficult parts to comprehend. It’s also one of the hardest to do. You have to go little by little. I will also admit that many in my own faith are not even trying to reach that level in this lifetime. Most are still in the devotion stage, but that’s fine, because we have forever, and there is nothing wrong with wherever or whoever you happen to be. That’s where John Lennon got the idea that 'there’s nowhere you can be that isn’t where you’re meant to be." To illustrate this, we say that every saint has a past and every sinner has a future. We all go through these various phases at one time or another.
Your friend
Sufjon
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