Did Maronites speak the same Aramaic they use in mass today?

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I have identified the Language that Maronites use in mass is Western Syriac. However, Both varieties of Syriac are considered Eastern varieties of Aramaic whereas in Lebanon and Syria they apparently spoke a Western variety of Aramaic, all of which are extinct except for a variety called “Western Neo-Aramaic” spoken in 3 Villages (None of whom are maronite) in Syria on the Anti-Lebanon Range. I am trying to learn the old traditions of the Maronites (sad that its this hard for me, considering I am a Maronite) but there is so much missing information. All help is appreciated. Thank you all.
 
By the way for anyone who replies after here, I know Maronites don’t generally use too much Aramaic in Mass (sadly) today, I meant the Liturgical Western Syriac.
 
20+ years ago, my Byzantine Catholic cousin got married in a Maronite Catholic church. The service was in Arabic, Aramaic and English, with the words of consecration in Aramaic. POWERFUL.
 
I have consulted with my Grandparents, and they say it is the same as in Church. I am guessing that means they learned Syriac. I will learn Western (Serto) Syriac I guess, and it is the liturgical Language anyways. I currently know the Alphabet (not too different from Lebanese) and some words like Shlomo (Salaam or Peace), Bashmayo (Sama2 or heaven), Aloho (God), Moryo (Lord) and Beit (House). Syriac is beautiful and I want to learn it, so I can truly appreciate my Maronite heritage.
 
BartholomewB said:
is CAF’s resident expert.
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Thank you Bartholomew! Wouldn’t really call myself an expert as I’m learning new things everyday just like most of us but from my limited knowledge I would say probably, but there must have also been lots of colloqualisms that wouldn’t have been said within the context of a Qurbono Qadisho.
LebaneseCatbolic said:
whereas in Lebanon and Syria they apparently spoke a Western variety of Aramaic, all of which are extinct except for a variety called “Western Neo-Aramaic” spoken in 3 Villages (None of whom are maronite) in Syria on the Anti-Lebanon Range. I
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The entire population of the Middle East, including non-Christians, was mostly Aramaic-speaking prior to the seventh century. Jesus himself spoke Aramaic. After the Arab Conquest, Arabic gradually came to displace Aramaic, but Syriac influences can still be found in the Arabic languages of the region, such as in Lebanese. Examples of this would include (as far as I know) the words juwwet and barrat (inside and outside) instead of the Arabic dakhil and kharij respectively, the word wawa for pain (derived from Syriac wawo), sheresh, which means root, from Syriac shersho, etc… Lots of Lebanese and Syrian place names have Syriac origins as well. If you look at a map of Lebanon you’ll notice a lot of towns named Kfar something, such as Kfar Charbel, Kfar Matta, Kfar Debian… kfar is a Syriac word meaning village. In fact, tons of Lebanese place names are Syriac. Here’s a nice list I dug up online for you.

www.the961.com

Your Guide To The Ancient Names Of Lebanon's Towns & Cities

Most Lebanese towns and cities were named by the ancient natives of our land, for a purpose. This guide gives a glimpse at their original history.
www.the961.com www.the961.com

Hope this helps.
 
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Salibi said:
If you look at a map of Lebanon you’ll notice a lot of towns named Kfar something, such as Kfar Charbel, Kfar Matta, Kfar Debian… kfar is a Syriac word meaning village.
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A few miles south of the border there’s a place called Kfar Nachum, “Nahum’s Village,” usually anglicized as Capernaum.
 
Thank you. While I had figured that Lebanon was Aramaic before it spoke Arabic, it was hard to find which variety. I guess it was Syriac Aramaic, since my great grandparents were able to speak it fluently and my grandmother knows it in prayer (From the Lebanese village of bejjeh, which also is Syriac for Garden). Thanks for you help, Salibi
 
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I know it! It popped up on a search I was making for a movie named Capernaum (Lebanese: Kfar Nahum) by Lebanese filmmaker Nadine Labaki. I’m honestly not surprised at the numerous cognates and similarities as the whole area was just one huge cultural unit in ancient times and practically everyone is descended from the same ancestral Levantine/Canaanite population…in spite of modern borders and historical development of peoples!
 
LebaneseCatbolic said:
since my great grandparents were able to speak it fluently and my grandmother knows it in prayer
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Wow! That’s impressive. Not a lot of people can speak Syriac fluently now even thought we still have roadsigns in it in some places. I myself know only a few words and prayers in it.
 
You see that’s what many Maronites believe and we know we are descended from Canaanites or Phoenicians (Most Lebanese are, Muslims were all Christian at one point until Mohammed). Thats why we get annoyed when we are called arabs. Now I have began to relearn Syriac, because that is the true language of Lebanon.
 
Bejjeh is a VERY traditional place. Up until very recently they did mass the old way, and even now they separate men and women. Also becauss the Maronites began to retake Lebanon starting in Bejjeh, its a super Maronite place and thats why I am so proud that my Father’s family is from here. My family also knows a lot of Syriac people from Syria too.
 
I’m not a big supporter of Phoenicianism because I don’t think it has the capacity to unite the Lebanese people. I’m more of a proponent of Lebanism because it’s more encompassing of the various Lebanese groups. I do agree with you that Lebanese are not generally Arabs…although some may have more Arab in them than others, the truth of the matter is that Lebanese are a very diverse population and Arabs are only one layer of the whole mix. An argument can be made for us being cultural Arabs, but when I lived in the Gulf people there were under the impression that I was an ethnic Arab when I most certainly do not consider myself so.

On a side note, a weird thing I noticed with Gulf Arabs is that some of them seemed so intent to tell me that I was not a “real” Arab because I’m Lebanese then when I would tell them that that’s right they’d backtrack and insist that I am, in fact, an Arab.
 
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Yes. We are descended from Phoenicians but we certainly picked up many cultures, Greek, Roman, Syriac, Ottoman, and Arab, but the people in the land mostly remained the same, and that’s why National Geographic found that 93% of average Lebanese’s genome is from Canaanite origin. The Lebanese are their own people, and Arabs make up a part of our culture. I definitely however will say Maronites are not ethnically/genetically arab, and Lebanon used to be a predominantly Maronite place, and worldwide Maronites are the largest group of Lebanese people. For the original Demographics of Lebanon, just look at the demographics of its heart, Mount Lebanon Governorate. Lebanon was Originally a Christian nation, and although we are smaller, we always have the Saints to protect us. I also hear that Maronites and Christians are making a comeback and their decline is reversing. Anyways, I guess I am learning Syriac now, and it’s pretty fun (I like languages). Shlomo.
 
Although this is a fascinating discussion, and I certainly don’t want to derail it, I’m wondering how those of us who are non-Lebanese Maronites fit in. I’m a German-Irish Maronite. I don’t know Syriac (although I’d love to learn if I had the time), but I read the Syriac Fathers (in translation)…

How does a focus on the Syriac language and Maronite-Lebanese nationalism help us further our mandate from Christ to preach the Gospel to all nations?
 
Sarcelle said:
He tells them he is Assyrian, not Arab.
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I have heard the term Assyrian used (in the present-day context) to designate a specifically Christian community having its roots in the north of Iraq. Is that correct?
 
From my understanding, ecclesiastical Western Syriac as used in liturgy and the Syriac Fathers is a literary language: it is slightly archaic, has its own literary idiosyncrasies, and was more static than vernacular Aramaic (whether Eastern or Western). It is not unlike the status of ecclesiastical Koine Greek: the Greek language liturgies and patristics writings generally diverge from the vernacular.

I imagine that the first generation of Maronites - that is, the immediate disciples of St Maron - would have spoken a variety of Eastern Aramaic quite close to ecclesiastical Western Syriac as they originated from Antioch prior to their migration to Lebanon.
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
I’m wondering how those of us who are non-Lebanese Maronites fit in. I’m a German-Irish Maronite. I don’t know Syriac (although I’d love to learn if I had the time), but I read the Syriac Fathers (in translation)
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You fit in wonderfully! I saw you as a Maronite ever since you told me you were and I don’t think you’re less of a Maronite because you’re not of Lebanese heritage. I would find it quite ridiculous if someone were to insist otherwise…maybe favour him with a raised eyebrow and a sarcastic Lebanese wallah? (Really?)
Phillip_Rolfes said:
How does a focus on the Syriac language and Maronite-Lebanese nationalism help us further our mandate from Christ to preach the Gospel to all nations?
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Good question! I actually don’t have an answer, but I’m willing to ramble a little and explore…

First off I’d point out that Lebanese nationalism doesn’t really equal Maronite nationalism, even though some people do think so. In fact, I think that is a very ethnocentric and problematic view to hold. Lebanon is more than just Maronites and all of Lebanon’s communities are Lebanese…no one is really more Lebanese than the other, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise! It’s a very diverse country with around a dozen different ethnoreligious groups each with a unique cultural character…and they’re all Lebanese!

I don’t want to get too much into Lebanese history because I don’t want to bore you (I can if you want to) but Maronite-centric nationalism is less prevalent now than before the Lebanese Civil War (not surprising given that it had a hand in starting the thing).

Personally I’m not really a supporter of ethno-centric ideologies and dislike that mode of thinking, especially since it causes more problems than it’s worth. I don’t really understand what ethno-centrists think they’re going to achieve when they advocate for expelling (or even killing) members of other groups. I think it’s more beneficial for purposes of peace if extremistic ethnic nationalism just didn’t take hold.

While I do believe that Maronites should treasure our heritage and identity, I generally oppose ethnocentric nationalism. I would support revivalist movements aimed at preserving Maronite culture, as I would support movements preserving the cultures of other Lebanese groups, but I think bad things (cough Lebanese Civil War cough) would happen if ethnic identity begins to take precedence over national identity…and it would a problem evangelization-wise, as you correctly identified. Lots of non-Christians I know get put off Christianity by more ethnocentric Maronites…I just tell them to ignore them and dive right in!

So to answer your question, I don’t think it would be a help at all.
 
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