Did Mary ascend?

[Rye-Guy]

I find it interesting that you say Mary was born again in Christ, because if such is the case, then that would make her very much alive (if you are born again that would mean you would be living again too)! Anyway, once again Mary is present in Revelation as the woman clothed with the sun who gives birth to a young child who later destroys the serpent. As you yourself stated Joseph Smith, she is mentioned in the Old Testament as the woman that would give brth to a child who would bruise the head of the serpent (though I believe in another forum)…Here in Revelation we have much of the same imagery and therefore (using your own words) we can deduce that both women are the same and therefore both women are Mary…

 

[WynCatholic]

Where to begin…

You should not be disturbed at all i am a prophet i always upset people.

1 Cor. 13:2

Did Jesus come back to take Mary up to heaevn. And can he come back and take up Mary before he comes back for the whole body of christ.

Why would Jesus have to ‘come back’ to bring His mother up to heaven?

Jesus is in heaven setting beside the Father, He has been there for 2000 year. Until the foolness of the gentiles is complete he will not and can’t return to earth.

you’re a dispensationalist and the 19th century filter you impose upon scripture disassociates you from the truth of the gospel

The problem for the catholic church is the fact they teach Mary went to heaven and not hell. Jesus went to hell for us making him a single redeemer paying all the price for sin and him sinnless. Mary paid no price for sin other then the personnel price of her own sin. Jesus paid the price from the world sins and not a single one his. The fullness of God dwelt in Christ alone. He alone is God he alone is our redeemer and he alone is our salvaton and our hope. He is the Christ the messiah of GOD the Son of the living God. Christ is the one answer for sin. The whole bible points to God and his plan from Christ to raise him up and to exalt him this is the Fathers will.

why do you claim that Mary didn’t trust Jesus as her Saviour and is in hell? you severely don’t understand what the Catholic Church teaches. May I suggest the catechism of the Catholic Church. (available at www.vatican.va )

In the teaching ot the divine nature of Mary the catholic church has itself show itself less then in right standing with scripture. This is human worship over Christ worship and it is actually as old as the word. For which many have been judged by God.

It is a good thing that the church doesn’t teach that then

Only because you Worship Mary the creation over Christ the creator.

Catholics don’t do that.

You may want to consider putting on the mind of Christ.

thanks. and also to you.

This book with its red words cost his blood. He is your only redemer.

The church/his people/his body/his bride cost his blood. The scriptures is the book of the church. please do not make a book divine.

Three people have assended into heaven. Jesus, Enoch and Prophet Elijah.

No. One person Assended into heaven. Jesus.
Enoch walked with God.(and was not, for God took him) (BTW:how does that fit with your understanding of the fall and total depravity?)
Moses: (for reference see Jude and also the transfiguration.)
Elijah: in the Chariot into heaven.
God didn’t do them exactly alike, did he?

also, meditate on Jesus’ words and actions about ruling, serving, and humility.
Peace to your soul.
wayne

 

[deb1]

You should not be disturbed at all i am a prophet i always upset people.

Can you offer proof of this? How does a prophet know that he/she is a prophet?

Did Jesus come back to take Mary up to heaevn. And can he come back and take up Mary before he comes back for the whole body of christ.

Jesus is God and can do whatever he pleases. I do not put limits on God

 

[maryj]

Well you still have not provide me one scripture to supports that Mary was indeed caught up to heaven. There is not reports from the apostles ever seeing it or it ever taking place.
no reference to it in the new testiment. And the reference someone gave in revelation is not speaking about Mary it is speaking about Israel and the baby Jesus. As proven by the 12stars over the head of the woman. 12 tribes, This is the Father God bride Israel holding his Son Jesus. So you can’t prove me any scripture on it i guess.
You know the word of God is good for the casting down of imaginations. That means if you can’t prove it in scriptures it is indeed imagination.

I really need someone to explain to me why it is that the Catholic church is the only church on the face of the earth that screws up the interpretations of scriptures. I am completely baffled by how many protestants come to these boards and tell that they are the ones who interpret scriptures correctly and that we as catholics are the ones who always have the wrong interpretation, ALWAYS. They KNOW that their interpretation is right, how? tell me!! And if the response is “the Holy Spirit leads us” then my response is “RIGHT BACK AT CHA” arrrggggggghhhhhh!!! vent complete, I think.

 

[Orogeny]

Can you offer proof of this? How does a prophet know that he/she is a prophet?

Because of the little voice telling him it is so.

Peace

Tim

 

[heisenburg]

In Joe’s defense…

We shouldnt automaticaly assume he is delusionsal.

obviously he THINKS something ‘special’ is going on, but, we dont know what it is. It is entirly possible that he is infact hearing a supernatural voice. But i think by his fruits we can tell that if this is the case it is not an angel of light, but an angel of darkess.

One might ask why would the devil focus on someone that isnt really with Christ?

Simple answer, we do not know the future. and we do not know what is instore for this man. Though satan is not Omniscient, he can get glimpses of what are where peopel are destined. God may have a very specific plan for him. He may be destined to bring many people in his area to christ.

If the devil knows this, of coarse he would send an angel of darkness to try and thwart gods plan.

Keep in mind, Paul was a great persecutor before turning to Christ and His Church. I seriously doubt any offense Joe has done exceeds setting up Christians to Death as Paul did.

Point is, even if he isnt seeing demons, and he really is delusionsal, this simply means we must show him our love for Christ, share with him our love for christ, and speak to him with the same love.

Ridiculing him will only ‘prove’ he is right in his eyes.

TO JOE—
I mean no disrespect, but please, look at your fruits and see if they show you to be a prophet (or even truely with christ)
You have displayed contempt for our views, lack of any willingness to even read what we provide, You show Hatred, and anger very clearly. You have either intentionally or or unintentionaly twisted words. You have borne false witness by making connections that are not there. and you seem to be consumed with pride in your own PRIVATE interpretation and understand…

Again, I mean no disrespect, I mearely ask you to test your self and your actions against scripture.

Where is your Love
Where is your Humility
Where is your Compassion

All of these would be planly clear if you were truely a Christian Prophet.

Again, do NOT answer these questions here, I dont want your answer. All I want from you is to truely Test your self and your actions and atleast consider, based on your bitter fruit, is it possible you have been lead astray by an angel of darkness.

You will be in my prayers.

In Christ

 

[deb1]

In Joe’s defense…

We shouldnt automaticaly assume he is delusionsal.

obviously he THINKS something ‘special’ is going on, but, we dont know what it is. It is entirly possible that he is infact hearing a supernatural voice. But i think by his fruits we can tell that if this is the case it is not an angel of light, but an angel of darkess.

One might ask why would the devil focus on someone that isnt really with Christ?

Simple answer, we do not know the future. and we do not know what is instore for this man. Though satan is not Omniscient, he can get glimpses of what are where peopel are destined. God may have a very specific plan for him. He may be destined to bring many people in his area to christ.

If the devil knows this, of coarse he would send an angel of darkness to try and thwart gods plan.

Keep in mind, Paul was a great persecutor before turning to Christ and His Church. I seriously doubt any offense Joe has done exceeds setting up Christians to Death as Paul did.

Point is, even if he isnt seeing demons, and he really is delusionsal, this simply means we must show him our love for Christ, share with him our love for christ, and speak to him with the same love.

Ridiculing him will only ‘prove’ he is right in his eyes.

TO JOE—
I mean no disrespect, but please, look at your fruits and see if they show you to be a prophet (or even truely with christ)
You have displayed contempt for our views, lack of any willingness to even read what we provide, You show Hatred, and anger very clearly. You have either intentionally or or unintentionaly twisted words. You have borne false witness by making connections that are not there. and you seem to be consumed with pride in your own PRIVATE interpretation and understand…

Again, I mean no disrespect, I mearely ask you to test your self and your actions against scripture.

Where is your Love
Where is your Humility
Where is your Compassion

All of these would be planly clear if you were truely a Christian Prophet.

Again, do NOT answer these questions here, I dont want your answer. All I want from you is to truely Test your self and your actions and atleast consider, based on your bitter fruit, is it possible you have been lead astray by an angel of darkness.

You will be in my prayers.

In Christ

That was very mature and Christ like. I should be so patient.

 

[Truthstalker]

The Assumption of Mary (that she arose body and soul into Heaven after death). This was declared by Pope Pius the Twelvth in November, 1950.—Nowhere taught in Scripture. The Apostle John, to whom Christ commended His mother while He was on the cross, and who lived about 70 years after the crucifixion, who wrote five books of the New Testament, and in whose house Mary lived until she died, isn’t it strange that he never mentioned such a miracle? Because it never happened.
So this is what if not writen by the apostle paul who indeed lived with and cared for mary for all these many years.
Strange is it not that it took 1950 years for this new age teaching to find it way into the chruch. As it is not in scripture at all.

The apostle John’s death isn’t in Scripture either. I guess it didn’t happen. History did not stop when John finished writing.

The Catholic position is that Mary is sinless. The following is my reasoning: the curse of death is because of sin. If she didn’t sin, she was not and is not subject to death. So she did not need to die. So she did not die. Staying on earth isn’t anyone’s heart’s desire who loves God. So where was she supposed to go? Without sin, hell and Purgatory are out. So she went to heaven.

Before you make the argument that Mary didn’t get raptured on an early flight, argue that she wasn’t sinless. Usually the Catholics around here don’t exactly enjoy iit when people say stuff like that, so be careful. And it has been covered on multiple threads, so do some research before you try it.

And the idea that Mary was sinless is very old. The pope didn’t find it in a fortune cookie in 1950 like you suggest.

 

[nkelly]

**Joseph Smith, is your purpose in this thread to insult and provoke catholics??

Let’s get this VERY CLEAR,**

Catholics do NOT worship Mary!
Catholics do NOT teach that Mary is Divine!

**Unless you can show us in an official document where the Church teaches this, then I suggest you remain silent!

God bless,
Noel.**

 

[Nicene]

Well until you can show me in the writing of the apostles Mary accended you really do not have a leg to stand on.

It appears you don’t know the difference between ascention and assumption. Point two, you project onto scripture that Mary was dead during the ministry of the apostles.

Scripture please to back up your unbiblical belief.

And the fact is it is a mythical teaching and all made up. And christians are a whole lot more then followers of Christ.

Baptists follow men other than Jesus?

But First and for most we are born again into the Kingdom of God by a actually salvation experence the baptism that is spoke of is a spirtual baptist. Not holy water that cost 17 cents. We are born into the living waters of Christ spirit. Remember the woman at the well and the living waters Christ spoke of. That is how you get baptisted by recieving the living waters of christ spirit. Not literal waters like you wash your hands with.

Actually it says water AND Spirit.

5: Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

You may wish to read up in Ezekial 36, as well as John 7

38: He who believes in me, as the scripture has said, `Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water.’"
39: Now this he said about the Spirit, which those who believed in him were to receive; for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

Hrmm, where is that water part? Yep, there it is, right after his talk with Nicodemus he teaches his disciples:

22: After this Jesus and his disciples went into the land of Judea; there he remained with them and baptized.

Someone is deleting from Scripture. I find it offensive when people remove things from scripture.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene

 

[runandsew]

Nowhere taught in Scripture. The Apostle John, to whom Christ commended His mother while He was on the cross, and who lived about 70 years after the crucifixion, who wrote five books of the New Testament, and in whose house Mary lived until she died

Where is that is scripture?
I don’t recall reading about Mary’s death in my version of the bible.
So if you are going to throw out her assumption because it isn’t in the bible, let’s throw out her death also.
In fact except for St Stephen and Judas, whose deaths are recorded, lets throw out all the apostles deaths also.
I don’t read about that in the bible either.

Why do you assume that everything that a Christian believes is found only in scripture?
Is there a bible verse that states that?

 

[Tomster]

Joseph Smith,

Each of the Blessed Virgin’s titles tells us something (oftern a number of things) about Mary and her beauty, glories, doctrines and prerogatives. But, of them all, Foederis Arca (“Ark of the Covenant”) is one which makes for a particularly engaging object of study, because of its profound Scriptural implications.

One often hears, even from sound Catholic theologians, that “the Scriptures don’t say too much about Mary.” By this they mean to say that Our Lady’s 'appearances, in the Gospel are minimal. Relatively few verses are devoted to her. By this reasoning, we could also say that the Scriptures don’t say much about the Sacrament of Confession.

Obviously, we understand that it is the quality of the truths preserved in the inspired texts that makes them so precious, not the quantityof the verses used to express each one. If only one verse throughout the entire Gospels spoke of Our Lord’s Real Presence in the Blessed Sacrament, we would need no others. The same thing applies to Our Lady.

And yet, it is also patently false to say that the Scriptures do not speak much of the Blessed Virgin. If these sacred texts are read correctly - - i.e., under the guidance of the Church which alone posses the authority to interpret them - - then the brilliant presence of Our Lady can be found warming the pages of the Bible from Genesis to the Apocalypse. We will find her in the Pentateuch, in the Prophets, in the Sapiential Books, announced in Eden, speaking to an Archangel, making her way to Bethlehem, standing on Calvary and, finally wearing a crown in Heaven. Far from remaining silent concerning the Mother of God, the books of the Old and New Testaments, understood correctly, tell us much more about her.

“Through this tangled skein runs a single golden thread; between these soiled pages lies, now and again, by type and analogue, of whom all generations of Christendom have called blessed, the Virgin of Virgins, the Queen of Heaven, the Holy Mother of God.” - Msgr. Ronald Knox

If you are up to it, I will be more than happy to go through this with you in a respectful conversation. I will consider your position with respect and hopefully you will do the same.

Tomster

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

I really need someone to explain to me why it is that the Catholic church is the only church on the face of the earth that screws up the interpretations of scriptures. I am completely baffled by how many protestants come to these boards and tell that they are the ones who interpret scriptures correctly and that we as catholics are the ones who always have the wrong interpretation, ALWAYS. They KNOW that their interpretation is right, how? tell me!! And if the response is “the Holy Spirit leads us” then my response is “RIGHT BACK AT CHA” arrrggggggghhhhhh!!! vent complete, I think.

Thanks! I’ll borrow that vent for myself.

 

[andexa]

did mary ascended to heaven?

 

[Randy_Carson]

did mary ascended to heaven?

This is a really old thread. But to answer your question:

Jesus *ascended *under His own power.

Mary was *assumed *by God into Heaven; she did not ascend by her own power.

 

[SPH1]

This is a really old thread. But to answer your question:

Jesus *ascended *under His own power.

Mary was *assumed *by God into Heaven; she did not ascend by her own power.

True. But I doubt that the OP (and others like him) will get such nuances because they don’t want to.

Anyway, as for Mary’s assumption and scripture. When the Gospels end most everyone is still alive, and so is Mary. So her Assumption would not be recorded there. When Acts ends many are still alive and so possibly could have been Mary. The same with most of the epistles.

The only book dealing with events after many are since dead would be Revelation. Yet here verse 12:1 very well could be a reference to Mary’s assumption.

So back to the OP’s claim: it looks like the apostle John, into whose care Mary was placed by Christ, did mention or allude to the Assumption, in the only book it could be.