Did Mary Choose to be Assumed into Heaven?

[Mannyfit75]

I do not find any evidence in the Bible that Mary chose to be assumed into heaven. She died just as we all do. What made Mary special was that God chose her to be the mother of Jesus. Other than a few passage in the Gospels there is very little else said about her in the bible. If she was as special as the Catholic church says, why does the Bible not say so?

Mary is special. She said, my soul manify the Greatness of the Lord. She also said that all generations will be blessed.

Consider the following website concerning Mary.

catholicapologetics.org/ap080300.htm

home.inreach.com/bstanley/breth.htm

home.inreach.com/bstanley/assum.htm

I’ll give you a short summary. Are you familiar with typography of the OT and NT?

In the OT, the Ark hold the Word of God. In the NT, Mary is the Type of Ark. Since she carried Jesus in her womb, the Word of God. Since the Ark is pure so too Mary must be pure.

You are familiar with Moses when he saw God in the burning bush. God told him to take off his scandal for the ground you stand on is Holy.

Revelations 11:19.

19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail.

Revelations 12:1-5

And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars: 2 And being with child, she cried travailing in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. 3 And there was seen another sign in heaven: and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads, and ten horns: and on his head seven diadems: 4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered; that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod: and her son was taken up to God, and to his throne.

Catholics believe this woman is Mary. She appeared in heaven. How did she get there? Well, she was assumed. Of course. That only explains it. How do we know this woman is Mary. Well, the woman gave birth to male child who will rule all nations. This male child is Jesus.

 

[DLC]

Here is a challenge: Would you read the NT over the next few months, and pay special attention to what you read about Mary? Keep a record of what you find.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Here is a challenge: Would you read the NT over the next few months, and pay special attention to what you read about Mary? Keep a record of what you find.

I have read the NT over a course of 2 yrs and I find it in uniform with Catholic Church teachings. It is my love of Scripture and of Jesus Christ that lead me to believe that Jesus established the Catholic Church.

The doctrine of Mary is an ancient Christian beliefs. I have know many Protestants try to persuade us to change our belief and even try to convert us. I’m not convince. I find many of the doctrine of Protestantism erroneous. Their beliefs are not unified. There are many intepretation which came out of Bible Alone doctrine, which focus on self-interpreting Scripture.

2 Peter 3:15-17

15 And consider the patience of our Lord as salvation, as our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, also wrote to you,
16
speaking of these things as he does in all his letters. In them there are some things hard to understand that the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, just as they do the other scriptures.
17
Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability

The passage I mention warns of self-interpretation, and in way predicted the fallacy of Protestantism Bible Alone doctrine. The only sole authority who can interpret Scripture is the Catholic Church.

In Catholicism, it teaches one faith in Christ, one baptism, it’s doctrine is the same, it is universal. This include the belief of the assumption of Mary.

 

[guanophore]

No, Mary was a mortal human, she obeyed God, she did not “choose" to be assumed.

How can you say this? Surely you don’t think she went against her will?! OR are you saying that she did not ascend under own power, as Christ did, but that He assumed her by His power?

 

[HailMary]

How can you say this?

because the Spouse of Christ, the Catholic Church, has declared this to be a dogma

Surely you don’t think she went against her will?!

Why do you assume it was against her will?

 

[thecoach]

There is none! It comes solely from the RCCs sacred tradition which, I might add, is not the inspired word of God.

Charlye

Fundamentalist forum is two doors down, you took a wrong turn!

 

[Tom]

are you saying that she did not ascend under own power, as Christ did, but that He assumed her by His power?

Yes, that is one of the differences between the Ascension of Jesus and the assumption of Mary. The ascension of Jesus was the elevation of Christ into heaven by His own power, and the assumption of Mary, was the taking up of Mary by the power of God. To say Mary determined she would be assumed is to say she had the power to raise herself up which of course is untrue.

 

[charlye]

@charlye:
There are a million threads about whether the BVM was assumed to Heaven or not in the “non-Catholic religions” and “Apologetics” forums of CA. Please go there if you want to discuss it and refrain in the future from derailing this thread.

QUOTE]

Been out of the country for the last couple of weeks so I haven’t been able to answer your post.

Until the moderators tell me I can’t post where I want to, and post what I want to … deal with it!

Charlye

 

[charlye]

“If the Holy Virgin had died and was buried, her falling asleep would have been surrounded with honour, death would have found her pure, and her crown would have been a virginal one…Had she been martyred according to what is written: ‘Thine own soul a sword shall pierce’, then she would shine gloriously among the martyrs, and her holy body would have been declared blessed; for by her, did light come to the world."
Epiphanius, Panarion, 78:23 (A.D. 377).

“[T]he Apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb; and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; and the holy body having been received, He commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise: where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones…” Gregory of Tours, Eight Books of Miracles, 1:4 (inter A.D. 575-593).

“As the most glorious Mother of Christ, our Savior and God and the giver of life and immortality, has been endowed with life by him, she has received an eternal incorruptibility of the body together with him who has raised her up from the tomb and has taken her up to himself in a way known only to him.” Modestus of Jerusalem, Encomium in dormitionnem Sanctissimae Dominae nostrae Deiparae semperque Virginis Mariae (PG 86-II,3306),(ante A.D. 634).

“It was fitting …that the most holy-body of Mary, God-bearing body, receptacle of God, divinised, incorruptible, illuminated by divine grace and full glory …should be entrusted to the earth for a little while and raised up to heaven in glory, with her soul pleasing to God.” Theoteknos of Livias, Homily on the Assumption (ante A.D. 650).

“You are she who, as it is written, appears in beauty, and your virginal body is all holy, all chaste, entirely the dwelling place of God, so that it is henceforth completely exempt from dissolution into dust. Though still human, it is changed into the heavenly life of incorruptibility, truly living and glorious, undamaged and sharing in perfect life.” Germanus of Constantinople, Sermon I (PG 98,346), (ante A.D. 733).

Ah … I see. You consider this to be the inspired word of God? (Edited)

Charlye

 

[Mannyfit75]

Ah … I see. You consider this to be the inspired word of God? (Edited)

Charlye

They are held by the traditions of our Church. (Edited)

The Assumption is very Biblical. If you read Revelation 12:1, 'And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars."

This woman gave birth to male child who will rule all nations. This child is Jesus Christ. How do we know this is Jesus? Because the male child was taken up to heaven to be in the throne with God.

Who is the woman in this verse. It has three meanings, the Church, Israel, and Mary. Literally speaking this woman is Mary because it is Mary who gave birth to Mary. If you read the early verse, it said, “a great sign appear in heaven.”

How did she end up there? She assumed. Revelation is not set in chronological order and many of its text has both literal and symbolic meaning.

The Assumption is not even against Scripture. We have Elijah assumed Body and Soul into heaven. We have two witness in the Rev 11:11-12 assumed. So in assuming body and soul of a follower of Jesus Christ contrary to the Bible? No.

Mary is the first disciple of Jesus Christ because without her consent, the Living Word of God would not become Flesh, in the incarnation as Jesus Christ.

In Scripture she had remain obedient to God’s will. I would think God would reward her heaven and reunite her with God. Why do you wish to deny this? Does not Jesus love his mother that much? I would believe Jesus could and he can assumed His Mother into Heaven.

 

[water]

Charlye

The word that you used is for sure not inspired.

 

[Mannyfit75]

Charlye

The word that you used is for sure not inspired.

Nope. His words are like those of the Pharisees and Sadducees

 

[thecoach]

Ah … I see. You consider this to be the inspired word of God? Pathetic!

Charlye

no, whats pathetic is your need to be here for no other reason than to flame the board and show disrespect. YOu need to move elsewhere.

 

[charlye]

They are held by the traditions of our Church. What kind of Christian Charity do you have by calling this pathetic. I would be careful least the Moderator here would ban you.

I would believe Jesus could and he can assumed His Mother into Heaven.

Using their “sacred tradition”, the RCC can bring into being anything they want … something that never was is suddenly “always has been”. Do you even know what the word “inspired” means in relation to Scripture? It is God-breathed! No so with your tradition … just very, very sad.

And the moderators are certainly within their rights. Not the end of the world for me.

Charlye

 

[charlye]

Charlye

The word that you used is for sure not inspired.

Exactly which word would that be?

Charlye

 

[guanophore]

Ah … I see. You consider this to be the inspired word of God? Pathetic!

Charlye

There are many levels of inspiration, Charlye. A pastor may be inspired in his homily, just as the ancient fathers may be inspiried in their writings. Neither of them is considerd “infallible” or on the same level of inspiration as the scripture. However, reading and hearing inspirational material can be growthful for the believer. These passages quoted from the fathers tell us something about what the church believed in the early centuries, and document that the assumption of Mary was not a “late” development. Your attitude of scorn toward the documentation will make it difficult for you to be educated by them, however.

 

[guanophore]

I do not find any evidence in the Bible that Mary chose to be assumed into heaven. She died just as we all do. What made Mary special was that God chose her to be the mother of Jesus. Other than a few passage in the Gospels there is very little else said about her in the bible. If she was as special as the Catholic church says, why does the Bible not say so?

The Bible contains only part of the deposit of divine faith.

No, Mary was a mortal human, she obeyed God, she did not “choose" to be assumed.
Remember she was assumed, not by her power, rather by Gods’ power unlike Jesus who assended on His own power.

How do you know that? If Jesus invited you to go to heaven with Him right this minute, would you not JUMP to go?! If you could have the best ever for your mom, would you not have her in Jesus’ presence for eternity? I know I would for my mom!

Ah … I see. You consider this to be the inspired word of God? Pathetic!

Charlye

One thing I am curious about is why it would bother some people if Jesus did take His mom into heaven to be with Him. Sometimes I wonder if people that have so much trouble with this idea really don’t have mother issues, and can’t stand being around their own mom’s, so don’t think maybe Jesus wanted to be with His?

Using their “sacred tradition”, the RCC can bring into being anything they want … something that never was is suddenly “always has been”. Do you even know what the word “inspired” means in relation to Scripture? It is God-breathed! No so with your tradition … just very, very sad.

And the moderators are certainly within their rights. Not the end of the world for me.

Charlye

Let’s say, for the sake of discussion, that it was really “made up” instead of being passed to us from the early church. So what? Does the idea really have to interfere with living the good Christian life? Does the idea of not having Mary’s remains here on earth really impede someones spiritual development?

 

[Tom]

How do you know that? If Jesus invited you to go to heaven with Him right this minute, would you not JUMP to go?! If you could have the best ever for your mom, would you not have her in Jesus’ presence for eternity? I know I would for my mom!

My post was in response to the OP which wanted to know if Mary decided it was time. The answer remains no, she didn’t. God did.

My question now is whether Mary determined that she was ready for her body to be “spiritualized” and to be assumed into heaven. Did she reach a certain level of holiness or spirituality which would allow her to be assumed? What was the catalyst for the Assumption?

God was the “catalyst", not Mary.