Did Mary commit a sin at the wedding feast of Cana?

[styrgwillidar]

He was NOT doing HIS “own thing”, HE was doing the will of HIS Father. At age 12 HE was considered a young adult. That’s why HE was not noticed to be missing right away. He could go where he pleased without having to “stay by” either parent. Our use of the word “obedient” does not mean He was disobedient. He could NOT be disobedient because HE is God. While HE was both GOD and man, He still could NOT sin. God Bless, Memaw

Sorry, Jesus knew he was supposed to go with the caravan. He did know that was the expectation of His parents. If this was your 18 year old kid and you were coming home from vacation, you wouldn’t consider them disobedient if they wandered off causing you all to miss the flight?

However, He also had obligations and responsibilities to his Father. There was a conflict between the earthly authority (and the authority of a parent over their children comes from God) and the heavenly authority. If the story teaches us anything, it is that we must balance and choose properly with our priority always being our Father in heaven over earthly authority when there is a conflict. IMHO

 

[styrgwillidar]

I wish I had more knowledge to counter statements like this.

"[v.3] Mary says to Jesus, “they have no wine” [v.4] Jesus says,“Woman, what have I do do with you? Mine hour is not yet come AND HERE IT COMES…… [v.5] Mary says to the servants, “Whatsoever he says to you, do it” BAM!!! Mary ignores the fact that GOD/Jesus’ plan does not include a miracle now She tells the servants to stand there staring at Jesus, waiting for him to speak May FULLY expects Jesus to do a miracle anyway, GOD’s plan or not THAT IS SIN….”

How can I show that this is not a sin of disobedience to God’s will?

Isn’t the whole point of this the power of prayer? If Mary is sinning in asking Jesus to do something He might otherwise not do, aren’t we all guilty of the same thing? If God will not answer prayers-- incorporate our requests into His plan, than what is the point of prayers of petition or intercession? Aren’t those in a way asking God to alter His will on those specific things? Isn’t Jesus, by stating His hour has not yet come illustrating that He will change things to accommodate sincere prayers?

Did Jesus sin in asking that He be spared the persecution and crucifixion, even knowing that it was all part of God’s will?

No, we pray and ask-- as Jesus repeatedly instructed-- for things but always keeping in mind that God’s will take priority over our own. We ask in the hopes of receiving what we’ve asked for but being willing to accept what God provides. In Jesus case, an angel to strengthen Him to do what was necessary.

 

[tz620q]

One more thing. That question may not have been a rhetorical question meant to criticize His mother but may have been a legitimate inquiry as to what she was thinking. He grew up obedient to Joseph and Mary. I doubt if He ceased being so as an adult.

Dr. Edward Sri pointed out that Jesus knew that when his hour came that death was part of it. This reply to his mother could be taken to show that she also knew the passion awaited them. His response that his hour had not come could be seen as almost a question like, “Mother, you know that once we decide to start this journey to the cross that it will end in my death. Are you sure you want me to start now?” Then her response, “Do whatever he tells you.” can be seen as an answer to this unspoken question.

 

[HelenRose]

Dr. Edward Sri pointed out that Jesus knew that when his hour came that death was part of it. This reply to his mother could be taken to show that she also knew the passion awaited them. His response that his hour had not come could be seen as almost a question like, “Mother, you know that once we decide to start this journey to the cross that it will end in my death. Are you sure you want me to start now?” Then her response, “Do whatever he tells you.” can be seen as an answer to this unspoken question.

Yes… Thank you.

 

[patrick457]

Is it just me, or do I not see just what is supposed to be the ‘sin’ here?

I mean, if what Mary did was wrong, Jesus could just have refused to do the miracle, couldn’t He?

 

[zz912]

Hmm. Jesus may always know Mary and will listen but He is not commanded by her. Not all requests or prayers are answered with “yes”.

And I don’t think she knew He would help. She knew He could help. She knew her Son. Like any Mother, there are times you ask your child to do something and sometimes when he says “no” you realize there might be a legitimate reason for him refusing so you discuss it with him later.

And about His disappearance when He was 12. He was disobedient. He should not have wandered off to do His own thing. This was showing His human side.

Jesus was NEVER disobedient, and would never dishonor His mother. It’s heresy to suggest otherwise. His human side was without sin just as His deity is free from sin.

 

[zz912]

It is strange to me that in our culture the word “woman” implies an insult.

When Jesus used the word “woman” he is not lowering her status but elevating it. In essence He is honoring her request because she is his mother and as such, is worthy of all due respect.

Jesus was alluding to the title of “woman” used for Eve in Genesis. Just as Eve is the mother of all, Mary is the mother of all the living. She is the “woman” of Genesis who will crush the head of the serpent.

 

[zz912]

For the original question:

Let me get this straight, Mary sending people to Jesus and telling them to obey Him is sinning?!?!?!

That’s the theory they are going with?

 

[patrick457]

For the original question:

Let me get this straight, Mary sending people to Jesus and telling them to obey Him is sinning?!?!?!

That’s the theory they are going with?

No, the theory is apparently that Mary indirectly asking Jesus to do something about the wine is actually a sin on Mary’s part. Which is still rather ridiculous if you’ll ask me.

 

[aicirt]

He was NOT doing HIS “own thing”, HE was doing the will of HIS Father. At age 12 HE was considered a young adult. That’s why HE was not noticed to be missing right away. He could go where he pleased without having to “stay by” either parent. Our use of the word “obedient” does not mean He was disobedient. He could NOT be disobedient because HE is God. While HE was both GOD and man, He still could NOT sin. God Bless, Memaw

Sorry, but you can be an adult and you are still wrong when you cause other people to worry about you. If Mary and Joseph thought the way you describe, there would have not been a reason for them to search for him with relatives, the streets of Jerusalem, and then the Temple to find Him. If they thought at 12 He could go His way, they would have journeyed on and He could come home when He wanted. Maybe this story was given to us to show His human nature.

 

[aicirt]

Jesus was NEVER disobedient, and would never dishonor His mother. It’s heresy to suggest otherwise. His human side was without sin just as His deity is free from sin.

Hmmm. Have to think about that. I do know He returned with Mary and Joseph once He realized their concern. Doing that makes Him a dutiful son same attitude He exhibited at Cana. I did ask a priest about this once and he too said it was a difficult passage.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Hmmm. Have to think about that. I do know He returned with Mary and Joseph once He realized their concern. Doing that makes Him a dutiful son same attitude He exhibited at Cana. I did ask a priest about this once and he too said it was a difficult passage.

Well… here’s a note from the USCCB.org online bible, usccb.org/bible/luke/2, on the passage:

“I must be in my Father’s house: this phrase can also be translated, “I must be about my Father’s work.” In either translation, Jesus refers to God as his Father. His divine sonship, and his obedience to his heavenly Father’s will, take precedence over his ties to his family.”

 

[Memaw]

Sorry, Jesus knew he was supposed to go with the caravan. He did know that was the expectation of His parents. If this was your 18 year old kid and you were coming home from vacation, you wouldn’t consider them disobedient if they wandered off causing you all to miss the flight?

However, He also had obligations and responsibilities to his Father. There was a conflict between the earthly authority (and the authority of a parent over their children comes from God) and the heavenly authority. If the story teaches us anything, it is that we must balance and choose properly with our priority always being our Father in heaven over earthly authority when there is a conflict. IMHO

My 18 year old kid would NOT be the Son of God and doing HIS FATHER’S Will. That is one of God’s great Mysteries, when you understand it, let me know. God Bless, Memaw

 

[HelenRose]

Even when I was a Protestant this was not a difficult passage for me. Mary cared about the young couple and asked her Son to help.

A beautiful story. A beautiful mother. A beautiful Son.

 

[aicirt]

Even when I was a Protestant this was not a difficult passage for me. Mary cared about the young couple and asked her Son to help.

A beautiful story. A beautiful mother. A beautiful Son.

Cana is not difficult. I happen to find the other difficult but that is me.

 

[aicirt]

My 18 year old kid would NOT be the Son of God and doing HIS FATHER’S Will. That is one of God’s great Mysteries, when you understand it, let me know. God Bless, Memaw

I will let you know Memaw and now I’m on my way to pick up my hair shirt at the dressmaker’s suitable for heretics. :curtsey: Joking here to lighten things up!

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

It can’t be in disobedience to God’s will, since both Mary and Jesus were/are sinless. Jesus IS God! He can’t go against His own will.

 

[zz912]

Hmmm. Have to think about that. I do know He returned with Mary and Joseph once He realized their concern. Doing that makes Him a dutiful son same attitude He exhibited at Cana. I did ask a priest about this once and he too said it was a difficult passage.

You’re thinking of this in the wrong vein. Jesus was doing His Father’s will, AND was teaching Mary and Joseph (and all of us) at the same time. Jesus was showing them that their concerns and worries of His personal safety must take a backseat to His mission to follow the Father’s will. He was very gently giving her a foretaste of the further pain she would have to endure.

He was also giving an foretaste of his Passion and Resurrection, in that Mary and Joseph were separated from Him for 3 days (just as the disciples were separated from Him for 3 days). That is why the passage ends with Mary pondering these things in her heart.

So the whole episode was instruction by Jesus to us. It was not sin.

 

[zz912]

Sorry, but you can be an adult and you are still wrong when you cause other people to worry about you. If Mary and Joseph thought the way you describe, there would have not been a reason for them to search for him with relatives, the streets of Jerusalem, and then the Temple to find Him. If they thought at 12 He could go His way, they would have journeyed on and He could come home when He wanted. Maybe this story was given to us to show His human nature.

Was Jesus wrong to endure the Passion?

That certainly made many people, Mary included, worry about Him.

 

[HelenRose]

You’re thinking of this in the wrong vein. Jesus was doing His Father’s will, AND was teaching Mary and Joseph (and all of us) at the same time. Jesus was showing them that their concerns and worries of His personal safety must take a backseat to His mission to follow the Father’s will. He was very gently giving her a foretaste of the further pain she would have to endure.

He was also giving an foretaste of his Passion and Resurrection, in that Mary and Joseph were separated from Him for 3 days (just as the disciples were separated from Him for 3 days). That is why the passage ends with Mary pondering these things in her heart.

So the whole episode was instruction by Jesus to us. It was not sin.