Did Mary die?

  • Thread starter Thread starter eelpis
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
The Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholics would say yes. Latin Catholics tend not to speculate too much as it is not seen as an essential part of the doctrine. Many, however, are of the general opinion that she did die first. I personally believe this as well.
 
I used to assume (pardon the pun) that she did not die, however, after actually looking into the subject seems it practically all the evidence and arguments made point to the fact that she did die.

In his Constitution, before the solemn definition of the Assumption, Pope Pius XII says she did die.

Likewise, it seems to be the common consent of the Fathers that she did die. Iconography suggests the same as does the fact that the traditional stories concerning the event even discuss her funeral bier and an empty tomb being found (which is still venerated to this day). Even the liturgical traditions of East and West reference her death.

I suggest the chapter on the Assumption in St. Alphonsus Liguori’s book “Glories of Mary.” He explains well that she did die, not as punishment due to sin, but as a special grace to allow her to follow completely the path of her Son. Likewise, he explains that at the cross, her love and grief were so great that it by a sheer miracle that her body didn’t simply give out and die right then and there.
 
The Church doesn’t teach definitively either way, but there is an interesting account of the events recorded in the book Mystical City of God by Ven Mary of Agreda. The book is a four volume private revelation of the life of the Blessed Mother given to a Spanish nun. The book has been endoresed by numerous Popes.

In the book, she recounts that, at the end of her life, Mary was told by our Lord that she did not have to die since death is the penalty for sin, of which she was in no way guilty. She replied by saying “My Son, I have followed you throughout my life, how can I not also follow you in death”. Jesus then said *“as you will”. *Mary then said “into They hands, dear Lord, I commend my spirit”, and she did indeed die.

They burried her in a tomb and she ascended into heaven three days later. “Doubting Thomas” (who was not present with the other apostles at her death) witnessed her ascension and told the apostles about it. Just as Thomas had doubted the resurrection of our Lord, so too did the apostles doubted Mary’s bodily ascension. When they went to the tomb together to see if the body was still there, the apostles saw that what Thomas said was true.

According to the book, until that time, there was a little animosity between Thomas and the other apotles due to Thomas’ doubt of Our Lord’s resurrection. Due to the apostles doubting this event, and being sorry for questioning Thomas when they were proven wrong, the hard feelings toward Thomas were eliminated, and they were reconciled.

That account makes a lot of sense to me.
 
I feel it makes sense that she did have a visible death, since she was living with John at the time. Imagine she just disappeared…
 
eelpis said:
Did Mary die before her Assumption?
Click to expand...
The Church has never officially spoken on this one way or the other. The doctrine of the Assumption simply states that she was assumed into heaven “having completed the course of her earthly life”. Whether this involved death or not is not defined.
 
Joe_5859 said:
The Church has never officially spoken on this one way or the other. The doctrine of the Assumption simply states that she was assumed into heaven “having completed the course of her earthly life”. Whether this involved death or not is not defined.
Click to expand...
This always amazes me when I read it.

Munificentissimus Deus states specifically and repeatedly that Saint Mary did in fact die. This was authored by the Pope himself! Does this not qualify at least as a part of the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church? How can it be ignored?
 
Hesychios said:
This always amazes me when I read it.

Munificentissimus Deus states specifically and repeatedly that Saint Mary did in fact die. This was authored by the Pope himself! Does this not qualify at least as a part of the Ordinary Magisterium of the Church? How can it be ignored?
Click to expand...
Could you point me to the paragraph number(s) you are referring to?

The passage I was quoting was from paragraph 44 of Munificentissimus Deus. It simply states:

“that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory” (emphasis added).

This could mean death, but not necessarily so.
 
The most recent 3 entries here on this blog of the Sons of the Most Holy Redeemer are related to the question, and support most of the answers given, as far as what we believe traditionally…
papastronsay.blogspot.com/
 
Joe_5859 said:
Could you point me to the paragraph number(s) you are referring to?

The passage I was quoting was from paragraph 44 of Munificentissimus Deus. It simply states:

“that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory” (emphasis added).

This could mean death, but not necessarily so.
Click to expand...
I can remember five or six mentions of her entombment and death leading up to the climax in paragraph 44, but right now I don’t have the time to do the search. This was the general Patristic belief and the Pope leaned on Patristic opinions in formulating the document. Most notably St John of Damascus, Doctor of the Church, to whom he devoted two paragraphs.
 
Hesychios said:
I can remember five or six mentions of her entombment and death leading up to the climax in paragraph 44, but right now I don’t have the time to do the search. This was the general Patristic belief and the Pope leaned on Patristic opinions in formulating the document. Most notably St John of Damascus, Doctor of the Church, to whom he devoted two paragraphs.
Click to expand...
I should probably take a closer look at it, then. 😉 I still wonder why Pius XII uses the language he does in paragraph 44 (which is the dogmatic formulation) instead of saying more specifically that Mary died. I believe that the tradition more readily supports the notion that she did die first. I didn’t think it had been defined, though.
 
NDfan said:
If Mary did die before the assumption then that would make her a sinner.
Click to expand...
Not necessarily. It would be fitting that she would want to be united in Jesus’ saving act of redemption by herself submitting to death as he did, even though she was without sin.
 
Joe_5859 said:
The Church has never officially spoken on this one way or the other. The doctrine of the Assumption simply states that she was assumed into heaven “having completed the course of her earthly life”. Whether this involved death or not is not defined.
Click to expand...
I am quite uncomfortable with this understanding of “official.” This seems to be a very popular view of Catholic doctrine, but it ends up leading to very dangerous waters. This very approach, suggesting that only the ex cathedra pronouncements of a Pope can be seen as being “official,” is just why so many were, and are, willing to entertain the idea of ordination of women. They would maintain that 2000 years of constant witness in practice, teaching and tradition were less than “official” and thereby eligible for rejection. I cannot agree with this however, and have to believe that the constant witness of the Church, and that very witness which compelled Pope Pius XII to promulgate Munificentissimus Deus in the first place, should be enough to move us to accept that the Blessed Virgin Mary did in fact die before her assumption.

The objection to the traditional teaching on the Blessed Virgin’s death, or dormition, would seem to be that since she was free from original sin then she must be free from the punishments associated with it including of course death. This also leads people to presume that she felt no pain in childbirth and so on. However, we know from the Catechism that: “By Baptism all sins are forgiven, original sin and all personal sins, as well as all punishment for sin.” This shows that death would bind the newly baptised in exactly the same manner as our Lady who of course would be exempted from such. How then do we explain the deaths of young children after baptism? They cannot commit even a personal sin, and now bear no punishments due to original sin, and yet they can die, and often do? How?

Even if we could reject the historic teaching of the Church on such matters, which I personally doubt, it would seem this is far from a convincing argument of why we should. In this case we have the Fathers, liturgy, iconography, prayers and traditions all pointing to the dormition of our Lady, and yet we would override that all for a very shaky understanding of sin and death. I am far from convinced.
 
I heard a Catholic apologist say a few days ago that Mary died and was assumed into Heaven 3 days later.

He said that there is today a ‘Mary’s tomb’ in the Holy Land that pilgrims visit.
 
Tietjen, what is your source for you statement “She entered a dormition. Somewhat like a sleep.”

I have never heard anything to back up that belief. I have always believed that Mary did die, but was not buried, therefore there was no corruption of her body.
:confused:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top