Did Mary experience labor pains?

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michael777:
You are sinning against the Word Of God and The Gospel.
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Infact it was Satan who didnt want the new testament to be written but it is
And every man will hear Jesus voice somehow including YOU!!!
 
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michael777:
A SECRET FOR YOU NOW THAT WAS MADE KNOWN NOT IN SECRET BUT PROCLAIMED TO ALL CREATION

the whole point of God redeeming man through christ who was fully human and fully divine is just that.HE was Fully Human and Fully Divine.
What im about to write next is the very truth on this matter of Mary.

If mary was not in the same state as eve after her fall.
the christ you believe in isnt the christ of God.

“For you have to believe that christ came in the flesh.”

The only way your faith can be valid is to believe that Christ came in the flesh, the flesh that was to come from EVES seed. In the state it was when it was EVES SEED to THE STATE TO come IN THE FUTURE HAD TO BE THE SAME. EVE’S seed was in the state of all humankind AFTER HER.

The flesh is humankind
the way of ALL FLESH IS EQUAL.
IN OTHER WORDS ALL FLESH IS THE SAME.

JESUS HAD TO BE LIKE HIS BROTHERS IN EVERYWAY
HIS FLESH WAS REAL HUMAN FLESH IT WASNT DIFFERENT IT HAD TO BE THE SAME.

The seed of EVE was human seed and was the EGG by which God and Man became ONE.
THE WORD BECAME FLESH.

If you believe the egg wasnt in the state that it was in as derived from the state of EVE.
Legally you arent believing in the Jesus Christ whom st paul and st peter and Mary herself believed in.

For the redemption was going to come via that seed, through Gods mercy and his intervention he was going to bring forth a messiah but by that seed.

the human race had to be brought back to God
a sinnless race was already there!!!

you say mary sinnless
God sinless so this equals?

Where is the flesh where is fallen mankind who needs a saviour!!!

They are completely left out of the eqaution
it had to be from eves fallen seed or lese christ wouldnt have come IN THE FLESH

GOD MADE THE PERFECT CHRIST IT WAS GODS HOLY SPIRIT THAT COMPENSATED FOR EVERYTHINGBUT HE DID IT IN THE ORDER HE HAD PREORDAINED ,EVERYTHING WAS EXACTLY AS HE ORDERED AND SINFUL MANKIND WAS AND HAD TO BE PART OF THE EQUATION EVES SEED WAS TO BE THE HUMAN SIDE GODS SPIRIT THE OTHER SIDE…

I know the truth in Christ.

the seed of eve WAS THE LEGAL ORDER OF GOD.
so SATAN HAD NO LEGAL RIGHTS ANYMORE IN THE COURTS OF HEAVEN

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE LISTEN TO ME
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Michael777, do you know what it means to be concieved without Original Sin? It simply means that Mary was concieved with the grace of baptism. What we recieve at baptism, Mary recieved at conception. St. John the Baptist recieved this same grace in the womb, that is why it says he was sanctified in the womb.

No one here rejects that Mary was in the same state as Eve after the fall. She was subject to all the consequences of sin, and she had flesh unlike what you are claiming we believe. Christ is fully God and fully man, which can be seen in the Nicene creed, which was written at the Catholic councils of Nicea and Constantinople. The hypostatic union is a Catholic doctrine.
 
Holy Theotokos
didnt know i was takin greek geek lessons

are you trying to impress me?
 
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michael777:
Holy Theotokos
didnt know i was takin greek geek lessons

are you trying to impress me?
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Trying to do Christian apologetics – Catholic or Protestant – without Greek is like trying to play baseball without the ball. Get used to it.

But frankly, you need to shape up your command of English. That is not a put-down or an insult; that is sound counsel.
 
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jimmy:
Michael777, do you know what it means to be concieved without Original Sin? It simply means that Mary was concieved with the grace of baptism. What we recieve at baptism, Mary recieved at conception. St. John the Baptist recieved this same grace in the womb, that is why it says he was sanctified in the womb.

No one here rejects that Mary was in the same state as Eve after the fall. She was subject to all the consequences of sin, and she had flesh unlike what you are claiming we believe. Christ is fully God and fully man, which can be seen in the Nicene creed, which was written at the Catholic councils of Nicea and Constantinople. The hypostatic union is a Catholic doctrine.
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Satan has totally blinded and converted you to his lies
i wash my hands of you

finito

God help you all
 
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michael777:
Infact it was Satan who didnt want the new testament to be written but it is
And every man will hear Jesus voice somehow including YOU!!!
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Christ did not come down from heaven to create a book called the bible. He created the Church long before the bible and it was members of the Church that wrote the bible with the inspiration of God. Paul was a member of the Church, Peter was a member of the Church, James was a member of the Church. They were writing down things that the Church had taught previously to that point. Hence, there is no way the NT can possibly have authority over the Church, since the Church is older that it and it is the Church that wrote it.
 
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michael777:
Satan has totally blinded and converted you to his lies
i wash my hands of you

finito

God help you all
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hahaha, you are so arrogant. You have this self righteous attitude that makes you think your views are better because they are your views. You need to understand that you are not the ultimate arbiter of what is truth.
 
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michael777:
Satan has totally blinded and converted you to his lies
i wash my hands of you

finito

God help you all
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CHRISTOS VOSKRESE IZ MERTVYCH,

SMERTIJI SMERT POPRAV,

I SUSCYM VO HROBICH ZIVOT DARAVOV.
 
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michael777:
Holy Theotokos
didnt know i was takin greek geek lessons

are you trying to impress me?
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Without knowing the history of Christianity you can not know the tuth.

Holy Theotokos is an ancient title for Mary.
 
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Mickey:
CHRISTOS VOSKRESE IZ MERTVYCH,

SMERTIJI SMERT POPRAV,

😃
I SUSCYM VO HROBICH ZIVOT DARAVOV.
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Who said you dont speak in tongues? 😃 God Bless
 
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Mickey:
CHRISTOS VOSKRESE IZ MERTVYCH,

SMERTIJI SMERT POPRAV,

I SUSCYM VO HROBICH ZIVOT DARAVOV.
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Svjati Boze, Svjati Krjepkij, Svjati Bezsmetrnij, pomiluj nas.
Svjati Boze, Svjati Krjepkij, Svjati Bezsmetrnij, pomiluj nas.
Svjati Boze, Svjati Krjepkij, Svjati Bezsmetrnij, pomiluj nas.

Hagios ho Theos, Hagios Ischyros, Hagios Athanatos, eleeson hemas.
Hagios ho Theos, Hagios Ischyros, Hagios Athanatos, eleeson hemas.
Hagios ho Theos, Hagios Ischyros, Hagios Athanatos, eleeson hemas.
 
jimmy said:
Svjati Boze, Svjati Krjepkij, Svjati Bezsmetrnij, pomiluj nas.
Svjati Boze, Svjati Krjepkij, Svjati Bezsmetrnij, pomiluj nas.
Svjati Boze, Svjati Krjepkij, Svjati Bezsmetrnij, pomiluj nas.

Hagios ho Theos, Hagios Ischyros, Hagios Athanatos, eleeson hemas.
Hagios ho Theos, Hagios Ischyros, Hagios Athanatos, eleeson hemas.
Hagios ho Theos, Hagios Ischyros, Hagios Athanatos, eleeson hemas.
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Holy God, Holy Mighty, Holy Immortal, Have mercy on us.%between%

Christos Anesti!
Alithos Anesti!
 
Of course!
Mary felt labor pains.
She nursed Jesus with her painfully swollen breasts.
She hungered and thirsted.
She was sleepy and I am sure relieved to have Joseph at her side.
Mary is not a statue or porcelain doll.
Mary is human flesh who gave birth to the Son of God.

Do me a favor. Pinch yourself :whacky: for asking. Did you feel that?
 
Whoa!!! I thought the original question was simply asking if it was physically possible for a woman to give birth without pain. That was why I gave my experince with my oldest daughter. Perhaps this was a misunderstanding on my part of the original post. This questions seems to have produced a lot of emotion.

In my opinion, if she had terrible labor pains it wouldn’t shake my faith and if she didn’t have labor pains it shouldn’t take away from her humaness or our ability to relate to her.

Because I am coming from a Fundamentalist Protestant background, I don’t know what the official church teaching on the subject is. Maybe someone could enlighten us on what the church teaches on the subject.
 
deb1 said:
Whoa!!! I thought the original question was simply asking if it was physically possible for a woman to give birth without pain. That was why I gave my experince with my oldest daughter. Perhaps this was a misunderstanding on my part of the original post. This questions seems to have produced a lot of emotion.

In my opinion, if she had terrible labor pains it wouldn’t shake my faith and if she didn’t have labor pains it shouldn’t take away from her humaness or our ability to relate to her.

Because I am coming from a Fundamentalist Protestant background, I don’t know what the official church teaching on the subject is. Maybe someone could enlighten us on what the church teaches on the subject.
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It is not a doctrine or dogma of the Church. Rather, it is what has been believed for centuries based on what would be fitting for Mary to experience (or not experience) as the Second Eve. Many popes have taught, informally, that she had no pain. I hope that helps!
 
What kind of absurd question is this? Original Sin was placed on all of mankind before there was any childbirth or labor…so the question is fallacious and absurd…how can there be any labor pains if there wasn’t anyone giving birth to children prior to The Fall???
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Ghosty:
Prove it. Show me where labor pains didn’t exist prior to Original Sin.
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What kind of absurd question is this? Original Sin was placed on all of mankind before there was any childbirth or labor…so the question is fallacious and absurd…how can there be any labor pains if there wasn’t anyone giving birth to children prior to The Fall???
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It’s not absurd at all. Regardless of whether or not there were any active human births prior to Original Sin, the text says increase, not “you will now have labor pains”. By your reasoning, you’d have to explain why God was even talking to Adam and Eve about human labor at all, since there was no human labor before Original Sin, or how He was able to tell them that they would die if they ate the Fruit when it’s not clear that anything had yet died. To turn your question around “How could there be any labor if there wasn’t anyone giving birth to children prior to The Fall?”

No, it’s clear that Adam and Eve knew what God was talking about, and God uses the term “increase” or “intensify”. Whether or not any human had ever experienced the lesser labor pains is as irrelevant as the fact that humans had not yet experienced death.

tuopaulo: My belief in Catholic evolution is irrelevant to this discussion. I don’t cling to any secular ideology, and as you can see the argument require me to delve any deeper than what’s in the text itself anyway, so bringing up anything else is out of place.
I believe Mary’s giving birth to her Son was virginal. She was as another poster said a virgin before, DURING, and after the birth of her Son.
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So does virginal mean more here than having sex? If a young girl uses tampons, or requires a cervical exam, is she no longer a virgin? It seems to me that the “during” has more to do with covering all the bases of times that she could have been sexually violated, and less to do with vaginal delivery. It can be interpreted either way, however.
 
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dumspirospero:
This is not accurate. Mary was spared the pains of childbirth and her bodily integrity was left intact even after the birth of Jesus. This is due to the fact she was conceived without original sin and remained sinless, even though she had free will, throughout her life.
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What does her “bodily integrity” have to do with her sinlessness?
 
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