Did Mary physically suffered?

  • Thread starter Thread starter fabio_rocha
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
F

fabio_rocha

Guest
In Genesis it is said to Adam and Eve that due to their sin all humanity including them will experience suffering. Mary was immaculate conceived, so she didn’t have the original sin. By that logic, she didn’t suffer, right?
 
fabio_rocha said:
In Genesis it is said to Adam and Eve that due to their sin all humanity including them will experience suffering. Mary was immaculate conceived, so she didn’t have the original sin. By that logic, she didn’t suffer, right?
Click to expand...
So when Jesus was dieing hanging from the cross, beaten and brutalized and she was seeing all this she did not suffer?

She was preserved from original sin but she was still fully human and capable of experiencing pain and suffering same as our lord.
👍
 
First it should be noted that there is a difference between intrinsic and extrinsic suffering. Certainly Mary experienced extrinsic suffering, even Jesus did. As to the question of whether or not Mary experienced intrinsic suffering, that is uncertain.
 
I’m sure she knew what it felt like to be hungry or cold, or hot! Stubbing her toe would have hurt. I would think she was very sensitive in her heart when others were angry, yelling, swearing, drinking to excess, etc.
 
A non theological answer…
Any mother who has lost a child has suffered beyond comprehension. And will do so until reunited.
 
fabio_rocha said:
In Genesis it is said to Adam and Eve that due to their sin all humanity including them will experience suffering. Mary was immaculate conceived, so she didn’t have the original sin. By that logic, she didn’t suffer, right?
Click to expand...
Absence of being in the state of original sin does not preserve one from being subject to undergoing physical pain. When we are baptized we are no longer in the state of original sin - yet we are still subject to suffering physical pain.

After the fall, physical pain is one of the penalties all members of the human race are subject to. As a human, Mary would be subject to the experience of physical pain.

Even with original sin, as a descendant of Adam and Eve, Mary would be subject to it. It took a **special intervention **by God, infusing her soul with sanctifying grace at the very first moment of its existence, that preserved her soul from it. Likewise, it would take a special intervention on God’s part to preserve her from ever being subject to physical pain. We do not know whether God did that or not.
 
Fabio, from the title of the thread, I assumed you meant only physical body pain. Did you mean mental and emotional pain as well?
 
Nita said:
Fabio, from the title of the thread, I assumed you meant only physical body pain. Did you mean mental and emotional pain as well?
Click to expand...
Theologically speaking, emotional (distinct from spiritual) pain would be in the same category, so to speak as physical pain.
 
devoutchristian said:
Theologically speaking, emotional (distinct from spiritual) pain would be in the same category, so to speak as physical pain.
Click to expand...
Sorrow, anxiety, despair, etc. are not considered “physical” pains.
St. Thomas Aquinas says: “I answer that, It is necessary to assign an appetitive power to the soul. … And so it is necessary to assign an appetitive power to the soul.”
ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP080.html#FPQ80OUTP1

But regardless of the technical terms, I think most recognize a distinction between physical pain and emotional pain.
 
Nita said:
Sorrow, anxiety, despair, etc. are not considered “physical” pains.
Click to expand...
Right. But emotions are a product of the brain, which is a physical organ.
Nita said:
St. Thomas Aquinas says: “I answer that, It is necessary to assign an appetitive power to the soul. … And so it is necessary to assign an appetitive power to the soul.”
ccel.org/a/aquinas/summa/FP/FP080.html#FPQ80OUTP1
Click to expand...
So?
Nita said:
But regardless of the technical terms, I think most recognize a distinction between physical pain and emotional pain.
Click to expand...
Certainly, I simply meant that the way that they relate theologically to original sin is very similar.
 
Jesus suffered. He was without any sin, including original sin. So why would it be a problem to say Mary suffered as well?
 
Texsain said:
Jesus suffered. He was without any sin, including original sin. So why would it be a problem to say Mary suffered as well?
Click to expand...
Jesus’s suffering was extrinsic, rather than intrinsic. He did not suffer by nature.
 
devoutchristian said:
Right. But emotions are a product of the brain, which is a physical organ.
Click to expand...
Emotions are not just a product of our physical brain matter. (I’m not denying the role physical things can have in regards to our emotions; but the physical condition contributing to evoking an emotion is not the emotion itself.) As Aquinas says, they are assigned to the soul. **The soul **is not physical, it **is **the spiritual, immaterial part of our human nature.

All one has to do is realize that those who have died and are in heaven are currently experiencing joy, etc. – and those in hell are currently experiencing anger, etc.
It is only their souls that are currently present there and experiencing these emotions/appetites/passions since the resurrection of their physical bodies has not yet occurred.
 
devoutchristian said:
Jesus’s suffering was extrinsic, rather than intrinsic. He did not suffer by nature.
Click to expand...
??? Jesus very definitely suffered by/in His human nature.

The physical wounds may have been extrinsic, but in human nature the very knowledge and consciousness/awareness of physical pain involves the soul. (And again, I recognize that the physical brain is involved also --------- BUT NOT EXCLUSIVELY.)

In addition to the physical pain experienced, Jesus experienced also all the suffering involved with hatred from others, ridicule, rejection, abandonment, …

(I think your signature “devoutchristian is correct” needs a little editing;
perhaps “sometimes” should be added to it. 🙂 )
 
Nita said:
Emotions are not just a product of our physical brain matter. (I’m not denying the role physical things can have in regards to our emotions; but the physical condition contributing to evoking an emotion is not the emotion itself.) As Aquinas says, they are assigned to the soul. **The soul **is not physical, it **is **the spiritual, immaterial part of our human nature.

All one has to do is realize that those who have died and are in heaven are currently experiencing joy, etc. – and those in hell are currently experiencing anger, etc.
It is only their souls that are currently present there and experiencing these emotions/appetites/passions since the resurrection of their physical bodies has not yet occurred.
Click to expand...
Emotions are a function of the brain, and joy is an intellectual act.
 
devoutchristian said:
Emotions are a function of the brain, and joy is an intellectual act.
Click to expand...
The intellect is part of the soul. It is the intellect and will that distinguish human souls from animal souls. (The soul is the spiritual, immaterial part of our human nature.)
 
Nita said:
The intellect is part of the soul. It is the intellect and will that distinguish human souls from animal souls. (The soul is the spiritual, immaterial part of our human nature.)
Click to expand...
Exactly.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top