Did Mary sin in Mark 3:21?

[Roman_Catholic_1]

I just had this emailed to me Basically it is stating that Mary sinned and there is an example of her sinning in the bible. This web site uses Mark 3:21 as that verse.

Here is the web-site:

evangelicaloutreach.org/marysinned.htm

My first thoughts are:

1. The Bible I use (RSV-CE) says, "And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, “He is beside himself.” It looks like the translation used in the web-site is the NIV which translates it as, " …for they said, “He is out of his mind.” There is a difference. The NIV makes it sound as if His family is saying it, while the RSV-CE makes it sound like other people were saying it.

But there still remains the reason they went out to seize Him. Anyone want to help me out? My study bible didn’t mention it, only talked about how, “brothers” in verse 3:31 could mean cousins.

1. I found this interesting:

Somehow Mary was no longer believing in Jesus (but instead thought he was now insane) and would have to have sinned to come to this low point. Hence,** Mary lost her salvation **because of her unbelief in Jesus.

The person who sent this to me is an OSAS christian who wouldnt (couldn’t) ever believe Mary could lose her salvation. I guess the whole addage that anti-Catholics will agree with anyone as long as they too are anti-Catholic has some truth to it.

I posted this for a couple of reasons. First I wanted to know how we answered this, and secondly I had never heard this argument before (and trust me I had thought I had heard them all).

God bless

 

[dbacks5439]

In Mark 3:21, whom is “they” referring to? His family was concerned that something might’ve happened to Jesus. Remember, it was the scribes who said that Jesus was Satan. Mary was only concerned for her Son, not angry or wanting to prevent him from doing something.

 

[SPH1]

It is not clear that it was his “family” that said that Christ was crazy/beside himself. Several translations, including the KJV, say it was “his friends”:

– King James
Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
– New King James
Mark 3:21 But when His own people heard about this, they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, "He is out of His mind.’’
– American Standard
Mark 3:21 And when his friends heard it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
– Living Bible
Mark 3:21 When his friends heard what was happening they came to try to take him home with them.He's out of his mind,'' they said. -- Revised Standard Mark 3:21 And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, "He is beside himself." -- Simple English Mark 3:21 When Jesus' family heard this, they went out to get Jesus. They were saying, He’s crazy!’’
– Transliterated, Pronounceable
Mark 3:21 Kai’ akou’santes hoi par autou’ exee’lthon kratee’saiauto’n, e’legon ga’r ho’ti “Exe’stee!”
– Transliterated, Unaccented
Mark 3:21 Kai akousantes hoi par autou exelthon kratesaiauton, elegon gar hoti “Exeste!”
– New American Standard
Mark 3:21 And when His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”
– New Jerusalem with Apocrypha
Mark 3:21 When his relations heard of this, they set out to take charge of him; they said, “He is out of his mind.”
– New American with Apocrypha
Mark 3:21 When his relatives heard of this they set out to seize him, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
– New Revised Standard with Apocrypha
Mark 3:21 When his family heard it, they went out to restrain him, for people were saying, “He has gone out of his mind.”

And NONE of the translations that refer to it being family specifically place the words in Mary’s mouth.

Also, with regard to Mary, Mark doesn’t place her arriving at the house until later in verse 31. Mark 3:31. So Mary almost certainly wasn’t involved in verse 21.

BTW, that heretical site does not believe in once saved, always saved. See their Doctrinal Statement here: evangelicaloutreach.org/doctrine.htm

Looks like they are trying to kill two birds with one stone - Mary. Slam the Catholic View of sinless AND slam the once saved, always saved crowd.

Goes to show once again how Sola Scriptura just does not work.

 

[Todd_Easton]

A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, ed. by Bernard Orchard, pub. by Thomas Nelson & Sons: 1953, page 912, says in part:
The usual interpretation is that relatives (or followers) of Christ, disturbed by reports, came out to take charge of him. The following points are to be noted. (1) The phrase oi par autou does not necessarily mean relatives (friends). It has a wide usage which would include disciples, followers, members of a household. It is not certain that the persons designated by this phrase are the same as ‘his mother and brethren’, 31. Even if they are, there is no reason for thinking that our Lady shared in the sentiments of the others, though she would naturally wish to be present when the welfare of her divine Son was in question. (2) ‘For they said’, rather, ‘For people were saying’. If this is correct, then 21b refers to reports which reached Christ’s friends, not to an expression of opinion by them.

The 1941 Confraternity Edition, reads:
20And they came to the house, and again a crowd gathered so that they could no so much as take their food. 21But when his own people had heard of it, they went out to lay hold of him, for they said, “He has gone mad.”
The accompanying foot-note reads:
21: Our Lord’s relatives did not yet believe in Him (cf. John 7, 5). The Blessed Virgin was with them on this occasion, but she had no misconception of His nature and mission.

A Commentary on the New Testament, pub. by the Catholic Biblical Association: 1942, page 207, says:
20f. These two verses are peculiar to Mark and their interpretation is very uncertain. One interpretation is that which is given in our [1941 Confraternity Edition] translation and explained in the foot-note. This explanation presupposes that there is some connection between these verses and 31ff; but this is not certain. They went out: from where? Hardly from Nazareth, which is not mentioned in the context. Moreover, his own people is a very dubious translation of the Greek which means literally “those by Him,” i.e., those who were with Him in the house. Finally, it is to be noted that the Greek word for crowd is masculine, singular; therefore the him and He may just as well be translated as “it,” referring to the crowd. Hence it is possible to translate 21 as follows: “But when they who were with Him (in the house) heard it, (i.e., the enthusiasm of the crowd outside), they went out (of the house) to lay hold of it (the crowd, to keep it in check), for they said, ‘It (the crowd) has gone mad.’” This is the interpretation of the group of ancient MSS [manuscripts] known as the “Western Family” of MSS.

 

[glide625]

I’m no biblical expert, and this is my first ever reply to a question, but I’ll take a stab at this. Whenever I get confused about a biblical passage, I go to usccb.org/ because the bibles in my house are very old and the language is difficult. When I went to read this, or any select verse, I read the stuff around it to try to get a sense of the context. The verse your reading/quoting is surrounded by high drama and to make matters more complicated, “Mark” is, I find, very condensed and seems to skip around. I think what’s really going on here is that Mark is writing about the very height of Jesus ministry, which is to say that we’re getting a report about the time when Jesus was really “outed” as a true worker of great miracles, signs and wonders and that as a result he stirred up great turmoil amongst the established order and probably within his own circle of relatives, and followers. His ability to cure deformities and deadly diseases astounded everybody; but imagine the turmoil around his casting out demons! To me at least this is not a passage that can be read in an intellectual vacuum; meaning, that we’re called upon as loving believers to read and close our eyes and picture this series of events. When I do, I see vast crowds and throngs of people pressing in upon Jesus, so much so that he has to retreat to a boat to keep from being trampled. Then, doubtless a day or two later he returns to his “home” or a house of a relative only to be crowded about again to such an extent that he and his disciples and the Apostles can’t even take a meal. This is a dangerously emotional and trying time! And yet he keeps it up! The authorities are scared of losing all control and yes, his relatives are truly frightened of him being overwhelmed by the throngs of people. Seeing this in my mind, I think the “they” are relatives and the “out of his mind” refers to their growing and highly emotional concern that because he won’t quit, or “retreat” from the scene that he’s behaving in a dangerously crazy manner. Put it in our modern context. If a guy was a popular rock star and jumped off the stage at a concert to mingle with a rapidly growing mob of adoring fans and then, rather than retreat to the safety of the stage, kept it up and cranked up the “volume” further inciting the crowd and “growing” it, his security guards, (Jesus relatives and Apostles), would attempt to surround and protect him and as he kept turning up the froth, they’d admonish him saying, “Hey guy, this is crazy, we gotta retreat to the safety of the stage”!

Hope that helps.

 

[Malcolm_McLean]

1. The Bible I use (RSV-CE) says, "And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, “He is beside himself.” It looks like the translation used in the web-site is the NIV which translates it as, " …for they said, “He is out of his mind.” There is a difference. The NIV makes it sound as if His family is saying it, while the RSV-CE makes it sound like other people were saying it.

Jesus was a man. There comes a point in every young man’s life where he has to choose between duties to his parents and duties to broader society, and when he is old enough to make that decision for himself. The bird must fly the nest. Jesus was no exception.

 

[paarsurrey]

1. The Bible I use (RSV-CE) says, "And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for people were saying, “He is beside himself.” It looks like the translation used in the web-site is the NIV which translates it as, " …for they said, “He is out of his mind.” There is a difference. The NIV makes it sound as if His family is saying it, while the RSV-CE makes it sound like other people were saying it.

Hi
I have an Urdu Catholic Bible just opened before me.First, I don’t find any mention of Mary in it.
If they presume that Mary might have sent some people to get him seized that is another thing.
Second, Urdu Catholic Bible does not use words which could be in English “He is beside himself.” or, for they said, “He is out of his mind.”
In fact Urdu Catholic Bible uses the Urdu word ’ diwana’ which would have snonyms as a Mad or a Lunatic. Please clrify.
Thanks

 

[Mintaka]

“He is out of his mind” is an English expression which means ‘he has gone crazy’ or, less seriously, ‘he is doing unwise things and acting like a lunatic’.

“He is beside himself” just means “he is overly excited”. In English, a specific emotion is usually said along with it: “He is beside himself with rage” or “he is beside himself with joy”.

 

[Zooey]

It’d be really, really hard for Mary to sin in Mark 3:21, since she’s not even mentioned in Mark 3:21…
For Sola Scriptura people, those guys are reading a whole lot into the Bible that isn’t even there…