Did Mohammed see an angel?

[De_Maria]

There are indeed reports of the companions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) themselves seeing the angels at various occasions during the times when they accompanied him.

Where and when? Provide the evidence.

However, the question is – What difference would this make to Christians since they believe that Satan is a fallen angel?

Very simple. On the order of evidence, we can prove that Jesus Christ existed, that he produced miracles and that he was crucfied, died and resurrected on the third day. These supernatural events including many miracles were prophesied in the Old Testament seen and attested in the Gospels and in the Epistles of the New Testament . Therefore, where the Bible says that the Devil and His Angels were thrown to earth, we know we can rely on its veracity.

Apocalypse 12
9 And that great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, who seduceth the whole world; and he was cast unto the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

But we can rely on nothing which Mohammed said because his Revelations are based upon a personal, subjective incident which he claims occured to him but which no other person can verify.

Nay, the proof of the Prophet-hood of Muhammad (pbuh) is not him seeing angels… but rather the ultimate proof that he is indeed the Messenger of God is the timeless miracle that he brought to humankind i.e. the Qur’an.

The Quran is a miracle of inconsistency and contradiction. It is amazing that so many otherwise sensible people actually believe it. However, while I’m here, we will compare the false teachings of Islam contained in the Quran to the Fullness of Truth in Catholic Teaching. God willing, some of you might see the light and risk life and limb to convert to God’s True Religion.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[famdigy]

De Maria and Monty,

please be specific when you say the Quran has many contradictions and mistakes. what contradictions and mistakes are you referring to? Please just give one example and don’t C/P an entire essay

thanks

 

[Verisimilitude]

De Maria and Monty,

please be specific when you say the Quran has many contradictions and mistakes. what contradictions and mistakes are you referring to? Please just give one example and don’t C/P an entire essay

thanks

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing? Each is mentioned in the Quran.

 

[Peregrino]

Did Mohammed see an angel? If so, how did he prove it?

Sincerely,

De Maria

How can anyone “prove” that they saw an angel? The contact of Mary and Joseph with angels is the same type of undocumentable experience. What kind of proof are you looking for? Before you attempt to assail the “evidentiary” foundations of another’s religious experience, you should recognize that our own tradition can be questioned just as easily on the same grounds.

Quite simply, it is just as reasonable for followers of Islam to believe in and trust in Mohammed’s experience with the angel Gabriel as it is for us to believe in Mary’s contact with Gabriel at the annuciation (an atheist would say such a belief has nothing to do with reason at all). From the point of empiricism, both sets of “experiences” are rather questionable to say the least…

 

[Peregrino]

The Quran is a miracle of inconsistency and contradiction. It is amazing that so many otherwise sensible people actually believe it. However, while I’m here, we will compare the false teachings of Islam contained in the Quran to the Fullness of Truth in Catholic Teaching. God willing, some of you might see the light and risk life and limb to convert to God’s True Religion.

Sincerely,

De Maria

Apparently you believe the Bible to be an icon of clarity and consistency…

I think it is anything but…

 

[paarsurrey]

What was man created from, blood, clay, dust, or nothing? Each is mentioned in the Quran.

Hi

These are different stages in the Creation of Man; hence no contradiction.

Thanks

 

[Peregrino]

The contact of Mary and Joseph with angels is the same type of undocumentable experience.

I meant “the same type of unprovable experience.”

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

Did Mohammed see an angel?

Yes, definitely Muhammad did see the angel. There in no need of witnessing by others.

If there is a need, kindly establish this **claim **and its reason from OTBible.

The message revealed by an angel testifies it.

Thanks

 

[Verisimilitude]

Hi

These are different stages in the Creation of Man; hence no contradiction.

Thanks

How do you know? The verses do not indicate they are a particular stage of mans creation. The Quran describes Adam differently than Jesus but only those two to be different than any other people to include Mohamed.

Back to the OP…

Peregrino is correct in that the same criteria apply to all such spiritual encounters. The witnesses record is really the only tool we have and that would be only as strong as the reliability of the witness.

The major difference between Islams angelic/demonic experience and both OT and NT accounts is the total lack of witnesses for Islam. All of Israel saw what led them out of Egypt by day and night, and many were witness to Angels who went to the tomb on Sunday after the Friday crucifixon.

I’m not sure if anyone saw the burning bush with Moses, but as Peregrino also pointed out Mary and others were alone as well and I accept them as valid.

Mohameds witnesses never heard the bell or voice that brought a revelation, but likely saw the fever and fits that produced other words of allah to him. It is the first experience in Hira that started it all, and that has the most if any credibility of a real experience. I accept it was.

What/who that spirit was is debatable just as if Mohamed had other real experiences or made them up. Why is also worthy of debate.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

If he saw an angel it could only be the fallen one Satan. Mohammed was Satan’s best student.

Amen to that. Mohammed may have ment well at first, but the devil got him. I wonder if he ever repented, even on his death bed??

 

[Dirk_Skene]

He was even tricked by Satan

And this version of Muhammed’s based on what?

Montalban ole pal, You are good with the replys It is Orthodox folks like you that make me sure that if I ever left the Catholic Church (little chance though) that I’d be Orthodox. Probably Greek. My maternal grandmother was Greek. AND Orthodox

(man! I never thought I’ ever use the “thumbs up” smiley.

 

[paarsurrey]

How do you know? The verses do not indicate they are a particular stage of mans creation.

Hi

It is common sense which is not so common which tells that, kindly read all such passages carefully and intently from Quran, then the subject would open up to you.

Have a little research, no harm, please.

Thanks

 

[paarsurrey]

I’m not sure if anyone saw the burning bush with Moses.

Hi

Kindly devote a little time reading such passages from OTBible and inform us who were the witnesses of Moses on the mount.

There can’t be any as he went alone there.

It is the message only that Moses brought which testifies .

Thanks

 

[De_Maria]

De Maria and Monty,

please be specific when you say the Quran has many contradictions and mistakes. what contradictions and mistakes are you referring to? Please just give one example and don’t C/P an entire essay

thanks

Apparently, it is you who want to C/P the essay. This thread is not about the contradictions and mistakes in the Quran. It is about the flimsy foundation of the Quran.

If we study the origin of the Quran, we find that Mohammed’s claim of seeing an angel can not be verified. The contents of the Quran can be traced to the imagination of one man, Mohammed. Not to any Divine Intervention.

As for the contradictions in the Quran, with the thread on Islam and Original sin iwe are beginning to study precisely that question, one doctrine at a time.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

How can anyone “prove” that they saw an angel?

Corroborating witnesses. As in the case of the children of Fatima.

Substantiating miracles. As in the case of the miraculous stream of Lourdes.

The contact of Mary and Joseph with angels is the same type of undocumentable experience.

Wrong. The source of the information, Jesus Christ, is unassailable in veracity. His existence is provable historically, His miracles were witnessed and attested by contemporaries. Because of this foundation of verifiable evidence, we can believe that Mary and Joseph saw and spoke to an Angel.

What kind of proof are you looking for?

Documented evidence that someone else saw the Angel. Otherwise, it Mohammed’s unverifiable word.

Before you attempt to assail the “evidentiary” foundations of another’s religious experience, you should recognize that our own tradition can be questioned just as easily on the same grounds.

They can question all they want. We have an answer.

Lets compare,

Mohammed said he saw an Angel.
Mohammed himself admitted he was a sinner.
Mohammed made many exceptions for himself in his life, such as giving himself right to have more wives.
Mohammed did not complete the Quran.
Someone else burned the original Quran written on bits of all kinds of matter and then produced a book he called the Quran.
No one has ever compared the two nor will they ever be able to since the original was destroyed.

The Old Testament Scriptures already existed when Jesus was born.
Jesus’ life and miracles were witnessed and attested by His contemporaries.
Jesus taught them how the Old Testament Scriptures referred to Him and produced many miracles to confirm the prophecies of the Old Testament.
The Four Gospels were written by three of His companions and one convert who interviewed His companions. The Acts were written by the same convert and the Epistles were written by Apostles and one especially who was converted by Jesus Appearance to him after His Resurrection and Ascension.

Quite simply, it is just as reasonable for followers of Islam to believe in and trust in Mohammed’s experience with the angel Gabriel as it is for us to believe in Mary’s contact with Gabriel at the annuciation (an atheist would say such a belief has nothing to do with reason at all). From the point of empiricism, both sets of “experiences” are rather questionable to say the least…

You are wrong for the reasons stated above.

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[De_Maria]

Apparently you believe the Bible to be an icon of clarity and consistency…

I think it is anything but…

That is why the Church is here to explain it.

Mark 4
11 And he said to them: To you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but to them that are without, all things are done in parables:

 

[De_Maria]

Hi

Did Mohammed see an angel?

Yes, definitely Muhammad did see the angel. There in no need of witnessing by others.

If there is a need, kindly establish this **claim **and its reason from OTBible.

The message revealed by an angel testifies it.

Thanks

In other words, your belief in Mohammed’s claim is based on blind faith.

Why do I need to establish anything from the Bible? The fact that Mohammed could not verify his vision is an Islamic problem.

 

[Peregrino]

Corroborating witnesses. As in the case of the children of Fatima.

Substantiating miracles. As in the case of the miraculous stream of Lourdes.

Wrong. The source of the information, Jesus Christ, is unassailable in veracity. His existence is provable historically, His miracles were witnessed and attested by contemporaries. Because of this foundation of verifiable evidence, we can believe that Mary and Joseph saw and spoke to an Angel.

Documented evidence that someone else saw the Angel. Otherwise, it Mohammed’s unverifiable word.

They can question all they want. We have an answer.

Lets compare,

Mohammed said he saw an Angel.
Mohammed himself admitted he was a sinner.
Mohammed made many exceptions for himself in his life, such as giving himself right to have more wives.
Mohammed did not complete the Quran.
Someone else burned the original Quran written on bits of all kinds of matter and then produced a book he called the Quran.
No one has ever compared the two nor will they ever be able to since the original was destroyed.

The Old Testament Scriptures already existed when Jesus was born.
Jesus’ life and miracles were witnessed and attested by His contemporaries.
Jesus taught them how the Old Testament Scriptures referred to Him and produced many miracles to confirm the prophecies of the Old Testament.
The Four Gospels were written by three of His companions and one convert who interviewed His companions. The Acts were written by the same convert and the Epistles were written by Apostles and one especially who was converted by Jesus Appearance to him after His Resurrection and Ascension.

You are wrong for the reasons stated above.

Sincerely,

De Maria

lol…

Are you kidding? I won’t waste my time going through each of these other than to say at least Mohammed wrote something down. We don’t have any evidence that Jesus put anything in writing…

Your zeal for the faith is admirable, however, attacking others on the “evidentiary” foundation of their faith is not, given that our “evidentiary” foundation is just as open to empirical critique.

 

[Booklover]

If an angel appeared to Muhammad, why did he act differently and not tell Muhammad to not be afraid, as had been done on other occasions?

Vickie

 

[Peregrino]

In other words, your belief in Mohammed’s claim is based on blind faith.

Your belief in Christian claims amounts to exactly the same thing-blind faith!. Blind faith in the veracity of Christian writings and claims. Blind faith that these claims weren’t embellished, forged or even written as metaphors. You have blind faith that the church is interpreting scripture correctly.

I have no interest in Islam and I am not an Islamic apologist. However, I can’t just stand by while you make such absurd claims against another example of blind faith.