Did Moses misquote God

[Don_Ross]

In recent readings at daily mass the story of the Golden calf was read but some parts were left out. In reading th full text (Exodus Chapter 32) it appears that God knew about the Golden calf and sent Moses down to them with the message that God’s “wrath would blaze against them and consume them”. Moses pleated with God for the people not to kill them and “the Lord relented in the punishment he had threatened”. However, we read that when Moses came down from the mountain and saw the people worshiping the golden calf his wrath flared up and he threw down and broke the tablets of the commandments God. He then did what he had asked God not to do by killing 3000 of his kinsmen with the sword saying “Thus says the Lord, the God of Isreal”. Now was he not making a true statement from God and if so is he a false prophet and those subject to death as stated in Deuteronomy? Can someone please explain this apparent contradiction?

 

[NotWorthy]

If God did not approve of what Moses did, wouldn’t He have punished him? He certainly showed that when Moses struck the rock.

Maybe, God was showing us that He does listen to our prayers. He allowed Moses to intercede on behalf of the Israelites, even offering up his life for Israel’s (foreshadowing, anyone…?). This set Moses up as the Covenant mediator between God and Israel. This also gave Moses the authority to mete out God’s justice in the form of 3000 dead Israelites.

I don’t know, I think I’m just rambling sometimes.

 

[Don_Ross]

Interesting thoughts I believe that God did punish Moses by not letting him enter the promised land. The question is, was it the wrath of Moses who lost his temper or the command of God that killed the 3000? Remember it was that same temper that killed the Egyptian and forced Moses to leave Egypt.

 

[RobNY]

I think God’s wrath meant utterly killing all of them, which He did not do.

Exodus 32:10

10 “Let me alone, then, that my wrath may blaze up against them to consume them. Then I will make of you a great nation.”

God wanted to wipe them all out, and carry out His promise to Abraham through Moses alone!

But Moses replies:

11 But Moses implored the LORD, his God, saying, “Why, O LORD, should your wrath blaze up against your own people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt with such great power and with so strong a hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, ‘With evil intent he brought them out, that he might kill them in the mountains and exterminate them from the face of the earth’? Let your blazing wrath die down; relent in punishing your people. 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, and how you swore to them by your own self, saying, ‘I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky; and all this land that I promised, I will give your descendants as their perpetual heritage.’” 14 So the LORD relented in the punishment he had threatened to inflict on his people.

And indeed, Moses makes an excellent point. He brought the entire people out of slavery in Egypt, and to utterly destroy them would be to render the glorious work of His hands for nothing. So the Lord doesn’t destroy them utterly.

This doesn’t mean they still don’t deserve another punishment by the Lord, merely that they will not be wiped from the face of the earth.

-Rob

 

[Della]

Interesting thoughts I believe that God did punish Moses by not letting him enter the promised land. The question is, was it the wrath of Moses who lost his temper or the command of God that killed the 3000? Remember it was that same temper that killed the Egyptian and forced Moses to leave Egypt.

I don’t agree that it was the “same temper.” There is a huge difference between meting out justice according to one’s own ideas and lawfully caring out God’s justice.

Although Moses had his weaknesses, as we all do, he was not acting out of ego here, as he was when he killed the Egyptian. He had no mandate from God at the time he killed the Egyptian to be the leader/judge of his people.

Besides, God meted out justice on the Egyptians himself, while he put Moses at the head of Israel, and so he, Moses, had the authority to deal with the Israelites as he saw fit.

 

[Don_Ross]

There is nothing in the biblical account that gave Moses any authority what so ever to kill 3000 people especially after God relented from destroying all or even part of the people. Moses was not “lawfully carying out God’s justice”. It does not state that he had a mandate from God to kill 3000 people. It is clear to me that Moses, in his anger, over-ruled God’s forgiveness. It is clear that the people died because of the wrath of Moses not the wrath of God. The question still is why did Moses do this? This sounds more like somthing the false profit Mohammed would do not a true profit from God.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Interesting thoughts I believe that God did punish Moses by not letting him enter the promised land. The question is, was it the wrath of Moses who lost his temper or the command of God that killed the 3000? Remember it was that same temper that killed the Egyptian and forced Moses to leave Egypt.

I think you have misquoted God

:“Ascend this mountain of the Ab’arim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, opposite Jericho; and view the land of Canaan, which I give to the people of Israel for a possession;
50] and die on the mountain which you ascend, and be gathered to your people, as Aaron your brother died in Mount Hor and was gathered to his people;
51] because you broke faith with me in the midst of the people of Israel at the waters of Mer’i-bath-ka’desh, in the wilderness of Zin; because you did not revere me as holy in the midst of the people of Israel.
52] For you shall see the land before you; but you shall not go there, into the land which I give to the people of Israel.”

Deuteronomy 32:48-52

 

[Della]

There is nothing in the biblical account that gave Moses any authority what so ever to kill 3000 people especially after God relented from destroying all or even part of the people. Moses was not “lawfully carying out God’s justice”. It does not state that he had a mandate from God to kill 3000 people. It is clear to me that Moses, in his anger, over-ruled God’s forgiveness. It is clear that the people died because of the wrath of Moses not the wrath of God. The question still is why did Moses do this? This sounds more like somthing the false profit Mohammed would do not a true profit from God.

We do not understand Moses’ position of authority from one passage of Scripture. He was the undoubted leader of Israel. God called him to lead the people of Israel out of Egypt–they weren’t following anyone else. This made him a judge of the people, and as judge he had the right and duty to execute judgment for the sins and crimes of the people.

When we consider that the whole of Israel (except for a very few who stayed loyal to God and Moses) rebelled against God by making an idol of gold and worshiping it in place of God–around 1 million people–3000 is a very small percentage to be punished instead of wiping out everyone. These 3000 probably represented those leaders who should have kept the people from sinning, but instead encouraged them in their sin. With them gone, the people had no doubt they were expected to keep faithful to God.

You have to see this incident in the light of the whole story of Exodus–of 400 years of slavery in which the people had become used to living according to Egyptian ideas and customs. They needed to be purged of all that. As it was, the whole generation that crossed the Red Sea did not make it to the Promised Land because they couldn’t let go of their Egyptian influences and expectations. It was their children, who had not been as influenced by the Egyptians who entered the Promised Land.

This was not the age of grace brought about by the redemptive death of Jesus, but the mere beginning of the time of the Law. And the Law was strict in a world in which the very survival of Israel as a distinct people faithful to God was vital. They were to be the witness of God to the world and bring the world its Messiah. More was expected of them than of other nations.

And what is it that Jesus said about those to whom much is given? That much is expected.

 

[NotWorthy]

There is nothing in the biblical account that gave Moses any authority what so ever to kill 3000 people especially after God relented from destroying all or even part of the people. Moses was not “lawfully carying out God’s justice”. It does not state that he had a mandate from God to kill 3000 people. It is clear to me that Moses, in his anger, over-ruled God’s forgiveness. It is clear that the people died because of the wrath of Moses not the wrath of God. The question still is why did Moses do this? This sounds more like somthing the false profit Mohammed would do not a true profit from God.

Don, I think you are taking a slice out of the story of Exodus and making a judgment.

As I mentioned, God punished Moses simply for striking the rock twice and prevent him from crossing the Jordan for this one event.

The same God didn’t punish Moses for ordering the death of 3000 revelers at the base of the very mountain where God revealed His Glory to Israel some 40 days earlier.

As was evident throughout Exodus, God punished Israel for it’s sins. Remember the Seraphs? Korah’s Rebellion? The Refusal to cross the Jordan? Why couldn’t God have trusted Moses to mete out His justice?

 

[Don_Ross]

Obviously, none of you know the answer to my question, Instead you acuse me of “Misquoting God” being judgemental, and not understanding the whole story. If God punished Moses for simply striking the rock twice then why wouldn’t he punish him for not having the same mercy that God was willing to give to the people. Either God changed His mind, which he cannot do, or Moses did not pass on the mercy of God to his people. All I want is a reasonable explanation of what this passage means. With that I will no longer make any comments on this subject

 

[RobNY]

Obviously, none of you know the answer to my question, Instead you acuse me of “Misquoting God” being judgemental, and not understanding the whole story. If God punished Moses for simply striking the rock twice then why wouldn’t he punish him for not having the same mercy that God was willing to give to the people. Either God changed His mind, which he cannot do, or Moses did not pass on the mercy of God to his people. All I want is a reasonable explanation of what this passage means. With that I will no longer make any comments on this subject

Your original question was in regards to whether there was a contradiction in the Biblical account, that 1. God relented from his punishment, and yet 2. Moses punishes the Israelites in the name of the Lord.

My post made this point, to clarify why there was no contradiction:

1. God relented from utterly destroying the Israelites. 4. Moses punishes the Israelites on behalf on the Lord.

The way you worded 1 and 2, they indeed contradicted, but 3 and 4 are not contradictory, and thus our problem is solved.

-Rob