Did Muhammad miss God's Wisdom?

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AlessandraRose

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Muslims,

This verse from the Koran directly contradicts the Wisdom of God, the Words of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

Sura 5:18 “(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”

One of the wisest men who ever lived, the Prophet Solomon spoke God’s Word when he said,

Proverbs 3:11-12 “My son, do not despise the LORD’s discipline and do not resent his rebuke, because the LORD disciplines those he loves, as a father the son he delights in.”

The Prophet Job, who endured severe testing from God proclaimed:

Job 5:17-19 "Blessed is the man whom God corrects; so do not despise the discipline of the Almighty. For he wounds, but he also binds up; he injures, but his hands also heal. From six calamities he will rescue you; in seven no harm will befall you.”

The Lord Jesus said,

Revelation 3:19 “Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest, and repent.”

God’s Word is affirmed and says in the Holy Spirit inspired Book of Hebrews:

Hebrews 12:5-11 “And you have forgotten that word of encouragement that addresses you as sons: ‘My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline, and do not lose heart when he rebukes you, because the Lord disciplines those he loves, and he punishes everyone he accepts as a son. [Proverbs 3:11-12]’ Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons. Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of our spirits and live! Our fathers disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, that we may share in his holiness. No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.”

The question Muhammad asked in Sura 5:18 is, obviously, not from God. And, your god of Islam may not accept his believers as spiritual sons and daughters, but you Muslims be sure of this:

Sura 29:46 is NOT the truth: Your allah is NOT the Jews and Christian’s God Almighty.

How did Muhammad miss God’s Wisdom?

Muhammad was NOT inspired by the True Holy Spirit of God. This is OBVIOUS! And, I know you Muslims have no answer for this.
 
Muslims,

This verse from the Koran directly contradicts the Wisdom of God, the Words of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

Sura 5:18 “(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” (----->)Say(<------):): “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
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Hello AlessandraRose, I am not sarcastic but Is English is your mother tongue. Try to focus on SAY in that Surah and Verse i;e, 5:18. I wish you know my language Urdu. But any ways in other word SAY means TELL and One and Only Above saying to Prophet Muhammad pbuh to SAY/TELL. As WE Muslims says that Prophet Muhammad pbuh is the messenger of One & Only Above i.e ALLAH
 
I’m impressed… I actually haven’t heard this argument before! Which actually shouldn’t be that impressive, but normally the arguments against Islam on this forum tend to be pretty lame, and the same ones rehashed ad infinitum.

The OP has provided a verse from the Qur’an which mentions a claim of Christians and Jews, then contradicts it with Biblical teachings to say that 1) fathers punish their children and 2) the punishment means God loves them.

A very nice argument, which is relatively easy to counter if you refer to the commentary (tafsir) of the verse in question. You may do so here.

I will summarize:

The Qur’an says that Jews and Christians claim to be a special group, God’s children… today they say they are “saved,” for example. And the Qur’an tells the Muslim to ask, then, if you (Christians/Jews) are what you say, then why has God prepared Hellfire as a punishment? And then the Qur’an says that Christians and Jews are like the rest of mankind, and that God alone is the Judge who will take them to account, and punish them for their sins, or forgive them if HE pleases… not just because they are Jewish/Christian.

None of the Bible verses you quoted refer to the punishment of Hellfire, but that is what the Qur’an is talking about. They are talking about discipline, not punishment.
 
I’m impressed… I actually haven’t heard this argument before! Which actually shouldn’t be that impressive, but normally the arguments against Islam on this forum tend to be pretty lame, and the same ones rehashed ad infinitum.
Some of our arguments may sound lame from time to time because most of the statements and arguments in the Koran are too shallow to reach our level of discussion. 😃
The OP has provided a verse from the Qur’an which mentions a claim of Christians and Jews, then contradicts it with Biblical teachings to say that 1) fathers punish their children and 2) the punishment means God loves them.

I will summarize:

The Qur’an says that Jews and Christians claim to be a special group, God’s children… today they say they are “saved,” for example. And the Qur’an tells the Muslim to ask, then, if you (Christians/Jews) are what you say, then why has God prepared Hellfire as a punishment? And then the Qur’an says that Christians and Jews are like the rest of mankind, and that God alone is the Judge who will take them to account, and punish them for their sins, or forgive them if HE pleases… not just because they are Jewish/Christian.

None of the Bible verses you quoted refer to the punishment of Hellfire, but that is what the Qur’an is talking about. They are talking about discipline, not punishment.
Your response is very lame as it can easily be countered:

The Koran verse in question has PRESENT TENSE marker, which indicates that Allah asserts to punish Jews and Christians constantly on earth before their death. Thus, the Koran mistakenly refers to every negative thing befalling Jews and Christians in this world as the sign of Allah’s punishment. What a logical fallacy! 😃
 
The Koran verse in question has PRESENT TENSE marker, which indicates that Allah asserts to punish Jews and Christians constantly on earth before their death. Thus, the Koran mistakenly refers to every negative thing befalling Jews and Christians in this world as the sign of Allah’s punishment. What a logical fallacy! 😃
That is not the opinion of the mufassireen, that it is punishment in this life. 🤷
 
I can guess why those mufassireen avoid taking the grammatical form of the verse into account while interpreting it. 😃
actually the argument goes beyond verb tense. Muhammad mixes the title with punishment and with being created…just as he mixes Trinity with Mary, with partners, with the idea of being not self-sufficient… just as he mixes son of God title with women and sex and self-sufficiency…i still have to see one refutation by Muhammad that does not smell of faulty human reasoning.
 
Muslims,

This verse from the Koran directly contradicts the Wisdom of God, the Words of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

Sura 5:18 “(Both) the Jews and the Christians say: “We are sons of Allah, and his beloved.” Say: “Why then doth He punish you for your sins? Nay, ye are but men,- of the men he hath created: He forgiveth whom He pleaseth, and He punisheth whom He pleaseth: and to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between: and unto Him is the final goal (of all)”
Hi

I think the verse of Quran is full of wisdom. GodAllahYHWH is All-Wise, hence only only His words are full of wisdom but the Messenger on whom these words descend also become wise.

Do you think that GodAllahYHWH cannot do what He pleases?
I think this is the essence of the verse.

Thanks
 
Hi

I think the verse of Quran is full of wisdom. GodAllahYHWH is All-Wise, hence only only His words are full of wisdom but the Messenger on whom these words descend also become wise.

Do you think that GodAllahYHWH cannot do what He pleases?
I think this is the essence of the verse.

Thanks
This means you believe that Allah can commit logical fallacies and tell lies if He wills so. 😉
 
actually the argument goes beyond verb tense. Muhammad mixes the title with punishment and with being created…just as he mixes Trinity with Mary, with partners, with the idea of being not self-sufficient… just as he mixes son of God title with women and sex and self-sufficiency…i still have to see one refutation by Muhammad that does not smell of faulty human reasoning.
👍 👍 👍
 
This means you believe that Allah can commit logical fallacies and tell lies if He wills so. 😉
Hi

Man of wisdom; how do you conclude that GodAllahYHWH could do such blemished things? I never said that.

Thanks
 
Hi

Man of wisdom; how do you conclude that GodAllahYHWH could do such blemished things? I never said that.

Thanks
My ironic conclusion is derived from your ascription of a logical fallacy in the Koran to Allah. 🙂
 
My ironic conclusion is derived from your ascription of a logical fallacy in the Koran to Allah. 🙂
Hi

Kindly get yourself corrected; I never said that there is any logical fallacy in Quran.

Thanks
 
Hi

Kindly get yourself corrected; **I never said **that there is any logical fallacy in Quran.

Thanks
we do. What you call wisdom of Allah cannot be the wisdom of an all-knowing because it’s fallacious. The whole arguments in that passage are irrelevent to the Jews and Christians Muhammad was trying to refute…
 
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