Did Neanderthals have souls?

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Did Neanderthals have souls?

A non-Catholic friend asked me if Neanderthal men were truly human beings, with eternal souls, in Catholic understading.

I had to confess my ignorance, and promised to post this question on the CAF forum, so that we might become better informed.
 
Magickman said:
Did Neanderthals have souls?

A non-Catholic friend asked me if Neanderthal men were truly human beings, with eternal souls, in Catholic understading.

I had to confess my ignorance, and promised to post this question on the CAF forum, so that we might become better informed.
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I am not a priest; however, one distinctive feature of the human soul is a cognitive mind. If the Neanderthal was able to for example, light fire and make tools, that would imply that a cognitive mind was present, and therefore a human soul.

ICXC NIKA.
 
I would guess yes, although Neanderthals have been (at times) put is a separate “species” by science, they always been on the boarder line. I remember from my colleges anthropology courses that one theory about their disappearance was that they may have interbred with other humans.
 
God completely destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, so it is certainly within the realm of possibility that God completely destroyed the Neanderthal species/sub-species/whatever for a definite reason.
 
This probably belongs in the “theology” section, but I’m going to wager a fairly well-educated guess that the Church has no position on this and that your guess is as good as anyone’s.
 
When ensoulment of human beings happened is anyone’s guess. The Bible reads in a way that God created Adam from Earth…which could include using the eartly vessle of a pre-man in order to accomplish that.

PS-tool use dosn’t indicate higher intellegance. Many apes, dolphins and even dogs have utalized primitiave tools or “rigged” complicated systems in order to accomplish a task.
 
purplesunshine said:
When ensoulment of human beings happened is anyone’s guess. The Bible reads in a way that God created Adam from Earth…which could include using the eartly vessle of a pre-man in order to accomplish that.

PS-tool use dosn’t indicate higher intellegance. Many apes, dolphins and even dogs have utalized primitiave tools or “rigged” complicated systems in order to accomplish a task.
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Agreed… and if/when evolution (in whatever way God decided to use His own creation) eventually brought about “man”… it was when God decided it was “His own image” with Adam.

There probably is a distinctive difference in DNA, though…
 
All living things have souls.

The souls of these creatures would have been the same as the soul of a dog or a dolphin, the soul that ends at death.
 
kage_ar said:
All living things have souls.

The souls of these creatures would have been the same as the soul of a dog or a dolphin, the soul that ends at death.
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Would you mind giving us the reference to the CCC or a link to where you have found this teaching? I would appreciate it if you would, as this topic is quite interesting to me, and I haven’t yet come across it (at least, I don’t recall reading it) in my reading and learning. Thanks! 🙂
 
mommamaree said:
Would you mind giving us the reference to the CCC or a link to where you have found this teaching? I would appreciate it if you would, as this topic is quite interesting to me, and I haven’t yet come across it (at least, I don’t recall reading it) in my reading and learning. Thanks! 🙂
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This is part of tradition.

Here is a good article to introduce you to St. Aquinas’ teaching on natural souls

aquinasonline.com/Topics/soul.html

New Advent:

newadvent.org/cathen/14153a.htm
 
Magickman said:
Did Neanderthals have souls?

A non-Catholic friend asked me if Neanderthal men were truly human beings, with eternal souls, in Catholic understading.

I had to confess my ignorance, and promised to post this question on the CAF forum, so that we might become better informed.
Click to expand...
I would think that Neanderthals do not have souls. In order to have souls, they would have to be human. Since Adam and Eve were the first humans created by God, and Neanderthals were created before Adam and Eve, which makes them not human, and hence not possessing a soul.

Scientifically speaking, Neanderthals are on a different branch from modern humans. And more importantly, they’re a dead branch, which means they are NOT ancestors of modern humans.

Anyway, just my $0.02.
 
nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowitzki/

Some people call this guy an neanderthal. He is large, big, boned, brow-ridge etc. Unfortunately a lot of anthropology is agenda driven. It is often considered a social science and not a pure science. It seems every other month they announce that they have found the “missing link”. It is certainly not a field where you get you information from headlines.
 
kage_ar said:
All living things have souls.

The souls of these creatures would have been the same as the soul of a dog or a dolphin, the soul that ends at death.
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What makes you think that Neanderthals didn’t have immortal souls? They were primitive humans but humans all the same.
 
whm said:
nba.com/playerfile/dirk_nowitzki/

Some people call this guy an neanderthal. He is large, big, boned, brow-ridge etc. Unfortunately a lot of anthropology is agenda driven. It is often considered a social science and not a pure science. It seems every other month they announce that they have found the “missing link”. It is certainly not a field where you get you information from headlines.
Click to expand...
Scientifically, I highly doubt that Neanderthals interbred with modern humans, at least not to any significant extent. No one has found any conclusive evidence to date that would indicate cross-species interbreeding. The fact that some modern humans may have some features that are generally associated with Neanderthals is not scientific evidence that one species derives from the other; they may simply be manifestations of dormant genes that came from our ancestors, which can be any species in the genus homo.
 
Magickman said:
Did Neanderthals have souls?

A non-Catholic friend asked me if Neanderthal men were truly human beings, with eternal souls, in Catholic understanding.

I had to confess my ignorance, and promised to post this question on the CAF forum, so that we might become better informed.
Click to expand...
This question probably belongs in another sub-forum… 🙂

What we as Catholics are obliged to believe regarding the origins of man:
Adam and Eve, ONLY Adam and Eve, are the first humans, created, as it says in Genesis, in the image and likeness of God (with eternal souls). And from these two descended the whole human race (i.e. men with souls).

To hold another view is a heresy called Polygenism. From Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Humani Generis:
“37. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion,
namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such
liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains
that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did
not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the
first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first
parents. Now it is no no way apparent how such an opinion can be
reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the
documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard
to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an
individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and
is in everyone as his own.”
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In addition, the CCC clearly names Adam and Eve as “our first parents” (#375, and elsewhere, I’m sure).

Any speculations regarding the origins of the human race must not contradict this teaching in any way. These details are very important, as they affect the doctrine of original sin, which in turn affects the doctrines of the Incarnation and the Salvation of all through the Cross of Christ.
 
Consecrated said:
This question probably belongs in another sub-forum… 🙂

What we as Catholics are obliged to believe regarding the origins of man:
Adam and Eve, ONLY Adam and Eve, are the first humans, created, as it says in Genesis, in the image and likeness of God (with eternal souls). And from these two descended the whole human race (i.e. men with souls).

To hold another view is a heresy called Polygenism. From Pope Pius XII’s encyclical Humani Generis:

In addition, the CCC clearly names Adam and Eve as “our first parents” (#375, and elsewhere, I’m sure).

Any speculations regarding the origins of the human race must not contradict this teaching in any way. These details are very important, as they affect the doctrine of original sin, which in turn affects the doctrines of the Incarnation and the Salvation of all through the Cross of Christ.
Click to expand...
  1. When, however, there is question of another conjectural opinion, namely polygenism, the children of the Church by no means enjoy such liberty. For the faithful cannot embrace that opinion which maintains that either after Adam there existed on this earth true men who did not take their origin through natural generation from him as from the first parent of all, or that Adam represents a certain number of first parents. Now it is no no way apparent how such an opinion can be reconciled with that which the sources of revealed truth and the documents of the Teaching Authority of the Church propose with regard to original sin, which proceeds from a sin actually committed by an individual Adam and which, through generation, is passed on to all and is in everyone as his own.[18]
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Notice the big weasel words wedged right in with that statement: "it is in no way apparent. That statement certainly doesn’t rule out polygenism, it just states that there is no apparent way to reconcile it with original sin. If in the future a way is discovered to reconcile polygenism with original sin we are certainly allowed to believe it.
 
KostyaJMJ said:
What makes you think that Neanderthals didn’t have immortal souls? They were primitive humans but humans all the same.
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I believe that our Original Parents were not Neanderthal. That is my belief, the Church has not defined this and you are free to believe otherwise.
 
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