Did or does suffering always have some meaning

  • Thread starter Thread starter PJM
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
P

PJM

Guest
Certainly suffering exist. No one can avoid it completely.

So it seems a reasonable question.

Does suffering have meaning?

If so; did it always have THE SAME meaning?
 
Good question. I don’t have an answer–just thoughts on the topic. I think that any meaning suffering has is meaning that we give to it. Suffering just suffering unless we “offer it up to God”. I don’t think that suffering has a purpose, as if suffering is given to us for our good. Suffering is purposeless. Suffering is a side-effect of something gone wrong–illness, death of someone we love, or an injury (physical or emotional).

That’s all I have on that. I’m sure someone else has something intelligent to say. 🙂
 
Suffering definately has a purpose, in my mind. The purpose can be different for different people at different times, but it can also be the same.

Suffering teaches us. Sometimes if we are being stubborn, we have to learn lessons the hard way. Different people must learn different lessons, so it can be for different reasons. Someone may need to learn patience, so they suffer through frustrations. Someone else may need to learn dependence on God, so they suffer a different way. But in the end, it can always help us.

Experiencing suffering always makes us stronger. It can teach us patience, grace under pressure, dependence on God, humility, and acceptance of God’s will for us even if it is difficult. “What doesn’t kill us makes us stronger” is not just a saying, it is a reality. Suffering, and learning how to suffer, makes us more perfect. As we share in a bit of the suffering of Christ, we become a little more like Him.

Think of a weight lifter, who lifts weights in order to strain his muscles so that they may lift heavier weights next time and become stronger. After we bear sufferings, if we bear them properly, our souls become stronger, larger, deeper, and able to hold more love. After experiencing great amounts of suffering, and then recovering, we are able to bear little pains more easily. We develop a “thicker skin” for people who bother us. We are able to deal with hardships with more grace, because we’ve experienced it…or worse…before. We have greater patience for things going wrong in life.

Some suffering we do not recover from, as in terminal illenss, and it can continue to death. The fruits of this suffering are reaped in heaven.

Also, think of someone who has experienced little or no suffering all their life. They will have a harder time relating to the suffering of others, and when disaster does strike their life, they may be completely lost. They won’t have developed the experience…the deepness and strength of soul that can be the fruit of suffering. For example, think about the founders of abuse shelters. They were oftentimes the victims of abuse themselves. By suffering as they did, they gained the experience and understanding to help others in that situation…to really relate to them and understand what they are going through. This is just one example…but when I am suffering from something, I often think about the experience I am gaining, so that if someday my grandkids or someone I know is going through the same thing, I can turn my suffering into a blessing and offer good counsel on account of my suffering.

Either way, it is important to bear suffering properly, and not to harden your hearts or become bitter at God or man. We must realize that suffering does have a purpose. It is a part of the fire that burns, yet purifies us. It makes us stronger, a little closer to perfection, a little close to Christ. To bear suffering is part of our “spiritual training.”

So in this way, suffering occurs to different people for different reasons, but all suffering has the same purpose. God allows it for a good reason. It’s part of our purpose on Earth.
 
Good question. I don’t have an answer–just thoughts on the topic. I think that any meaning suffering has is meaning that we give to it. Suffering just suffering unless we “offer it up to God”. I don’t think that suffering has a purpose, as if suffering is given to us for our good. Suffering is purposeless. Suffering is a side-effect of something gone wrong–illness, death of someone we love, or an injury (physical or emotional).

That’s all I have on that. I’m sure someone else has something intelligent to say. 🙂
Right. I was diagnosed with a chronic pain condition in my late teens. Many years later, a friend exposed me to the idea of “offering it up”, and it has been such a blessing. It has helped me to be more prayerful on an ongoing basis.
 
Certainly suffering exist. No one can avoid it completely.

So it seems a reasonable question.

Does suffering have meaning?

If so; did it always have THE SAME meaning?
Suffering has meaning in terms of survival. I touch something hot, I feel pain therefore I learn to refrain from touching hot things.

Have any other thoughts on this that go beyond that, and I would love to evaluate the truth claims in them.
 
I am reminded of a story of a young monk who went to his abbot and confessed a sexual sin he had committed. The abbot had absolutely no experience in sexual temptation, and so condemned the boy and banished him from the monastery. The young monk left in tears, but happened across a monk who later became a saint. The saint asked the boy what had happened, the boy told him everything, and the saint told him, “Don’t lose heart - return to your monastery. I will pray.” The boy left, and the saint prayed that God might give the abbot a taste of what the boy experienced. The abbot, around that time, suddenly received a vision of a shadowy figure armed with a bow and arrow - the figure plucked his bow and fired an arrow, and upon being hit the abbot was struck with all sorts of temptations in his mind. Overcome, he ran to the saint (whom he knew) and told him what happened. The saint replied that the abbot now knew how his spiritual son felt, and the abbot returned to the monastery with a much more forgiving attitude.

The point of this story is somewhat related to Garyjohn2’s post about how suffering helps us grow. The Fathers often talked about how temptation and suffering molded us the way gold molds fire, and how it perfects us spiritually. I can certainly speak of some experience: there was a time for most of last year where I felt like God was perpetually kicking me in the groin, to put it bluntly. 🙂 I was laid off, my temporary job didn’t work out, I was forced to move back in with my parents across the country, my car got in a wreck and was totaled, and on and on and on. My faith really was tested during that time, and there were some moments I felt like God had really abandoned me. However, I feel I am much more spiritually mature, and now I really do understand suffering and what it can be like for less fortunate people.

Even scripture affirms that suffering has a purpose. The man possessed by Legion was exorcised by Christ and ended up preaching the goodness of God throughout his homeland. The blind man in John 9 is said by Christ to have been born blind to show the glory of God, and he does become a good example to believers of faith and gratitude. Lazarus’s death is said by Christ to be purposeful as well, for it will help others believe, and indeed it does help many believe, even now.

In reference to the question “does suffering have the same meaning,” I think in many ways we try nowadays to avoid the real meaning of suffering. We are very materialistic, and we don’t like the idea of sacrifice, and we expect God to give us what we want when we need it all the time. What’s more, we don’t expect anything bad to ever happen to us. I once got in a conversation with someone who argued with me about suffering and allowing such suffering to happen to you. When I brought up the apostles and early Christians, he retorted, “They just did that as an example,” as if their suffering and deaths carried no other meaning other than to be good role models. Yes, in many ways they were good role models…but what was St. Paul’s command to the Corinthians? “Imitate me.” Therefore we must expect the temptations and sufferings to come, especially if we draw closer to God, for in drawing close to that fire of God’s love we will be purged as gold and purified into the fine metal God sees us as. Instead of asking why, we should be like the apostles and all the great martyrs in history, and give thanks that God found us worthy to suffer.
 
Certainly suffering exist. No one can avoid it completely.

So it seems a reasonable question.

Does suffering have meaning?

If so; did it always have THE SAME meaning?
Suffering is meant to teach us a higher truth. To Christians, it may be that we must rely on God for everything. For Buddhists, it would be that we must rid ourselves of our cravings and attachments that lead to rebirth into this world of suffering.

In pretty much every religion though, it has some purpose.
 
Certainly suffering exist.

Yep

No one can avoid it completely.

Probably not

So it seems a reasonable question.

Does suffering have meaning?

Not always

If so; did it always have THE SAME meaning?

No
 
Does suffering have meaning?
As a consequence of sin, it told us something is wrong with the world.

In Christ, who has entered into the depths of our suffering, it becomes a means of rectifying that wrong.
 
As a consequence of sin, it told us something is wrong with the world.

In Christ, who has entered into the depths of our suffering, it becomes a means of rectifying that wrong.
And God saw that it was not good for the man to be alone…

This was after God looked at it all and said it was “good”.

That he actually thought it would be good for adam to simply be happy with the animals should be a clue that we should re-evaluate his all knowingness attribute. Don’t you think?
 
That he actually thought it would be good for adam to simply be happy with the animals should be a clue that we should re-evaluate his all knowingness attribute. Don’t you think?
This is incorrect. There are two seperate accounts of the creation of man and woman in genesis. One is Genesis chapter 1, where he is creating everything saying “it is good” after each thing:
Genesis 1
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
Notice he makes them together, and it’s good.

In Genesis chapter 2, we have a seperate, more detailed account of making Adam and Eve individually, but there is no “and it was good” phrases in this chapter. Only, “It is not good for the man to be alone.” Then…enter Eve.

So yeah, Chapter 1 and 2 are not before/after chapters. They are understood as seperate accounts of creation.

Nowhere does God say “I’ve made Adam, its good. Oh wait, actually it’s not good so I’ll make Eve too.” It’s more like this is good but this is better.

But this has not much to do with suffering. 😉

On a personal sidenote…I actually think it would be good for Adam to simply be happy with the animals. That would be awesome! Maybe it’s because I like animals. But alas, happiness is not the purpose of life, so…enter woman.

Totally joking!!! 😛 I’m just trying out my new material.
 
I hope you guys didn’t you miss my post? The point is that chap1 and 2 are completely seperate accounts of creation.

For example, Chapter 1:

THere was darkness, God made light…it was good
land and water, it was good
plants and animals, it was good
man and woman, it was good
it was all good, and God rested
The End.

Chapter 2:

God made earth and heaven
God made Eden, and the river
There was no man to tend the land
God made man…it was not good for him to be alone
God made woman.
Man and woman together, they were both naked
The End.

These are seperate narratives. There is no “man is good…no he’s not good…ok lets make woman.” It didn’t happen like that. God does not contradict Himself or reveal Himself to be less than all-knowing as you imply.

Hope it clears things up! 🙂
 
I’m very familiar with the passage. It’s in the second narrative, not the first.
Okay. I am going to go find some info for a poster on another thread. In the meantime, can you please just tell me what you are trying to tell me outright so when I come back I can digest it? Is this something Bart Ehrman has covered? Do you have a link or something? I don’t care what narrative it is, it’s in the approved canon of scripture for christians. Protestant and Catholic.
 
I believe that going through times of suffering leads us to a higher understanding and knowledge. When I look back on my life, there is suffering that I had as achild that I had no control over. What did it teach me? It taught me to be more sensitive to those who are/ or are going through the same thing. It taught me that I can “live again” a be srtonger.

As an adult there are some suffering that I have brought on myself because of sin. I learn that to change that suffering is to seek repentance and to lean on God for the strength to withstand that sin again.

I just learned that I have MS. I can either hide away and ask why, or I can ask why but give my doubt, my pain, and my fear to God. By doing this I can let God “mold” me. I often read Job at times like this and Psalms. There is a peace that comes from studing the srciptures.

I hope that this helps.
 
can you please just tell me what you are trying to tell me outright
I said it two different ways, and it’s not a very complex idea. Maybe it would help if you ask questions or tell us what you don’t understand.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top