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JKirkLVNV
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The Holy See
Would disagree.
Did Padre Pio really refuse to "have anything to do with the Novus Ordo Mass"?!
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Would disagree.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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Actually the SSPX are in schism. Obviously if you ask the SSPX they will deny this but it is not for them to decide, it is the Church and the Holy Father who make this determination.
As for the answer to your question, it is correct but not for the reasons you think. The SSPX act without approval from the Bishop of the Diocese they act in because they do not ask for it. If they did ask for it they would be denied.
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bear06
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Because one bishop allows this, they must be approved??? Helloooooooo??? I seem to remember some people having a problem with bishops allowing lay homilists. Does it mean they are allowable because a bishop decides to allow them?
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katolik
Guest
I truly have a question to you. How is the SSPX in schism but the Orthodox aren’t?
The Orthodox curse filioque, Papal Infallibility, and the Immaculate Conception of Mary, and the SSPX doesn’t. Please explain the logic that deniers of Catholic dogma are not schismatic yet disobiendient bishops aren’t? I’ve asked you this question about 5 times now nad you haven’t answered. Please answer.
ByzCath:
The Orthodox curse filioque, Papal Infallibility, and the Immaculate Conception of Mary, and the SSPX doesn’t. Please explain the logic that deniers of Catholic dogma are not schismatic yet disobiendient bishops aren’t? I’ve asked you this question about 5 times now nad you haven’t answered. Please answer.
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bear06
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It goes something like this. You cannot be born into schism. The Orthodox and Protestants were at one time considered schismatics. From what I can tell the big turning point is 50 years. After 50 years they are no longer schismatics. If SSPX remains in schism for 50 years then they will also no longer be considered schismatics and they will have the same status as the Orthodox and the Protestants. BTW, SSPX are also deniers of Catholic dogma.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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bear06 has it so I will not address the schismatic part but I must say that the Orthodox do not “curse filioque, , and the Immaculate Conception of Mary”.katolik:
It goes something like this. You cannot be born into schism. The Orthodox and Protestants were at one time considered schismatics. From what I can tell the big turning point is 50 years. After 50 years they are no longer schismatics. If SSPX remains in schism for 50 years then they will also no longer be considered schismatics and they will have the same status as the Orthodox and the Protestants. BTW, SSPX are also deniers of Catholic dogma.
Their stand is the same as us Byzantine Catholics. We do not recite the filioque nor celebrate the Immaculate Conception (we celebrate the Conception of St Anne).
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katolik
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Then you’ll have to explain yourself to me. At the local Ukrainian parish I hear “i Syna” sung extra loud.
Sir I have participated and read O-dox forums[oc.net] and I have heard of sermons in which Catholics are accused of not worshipping the same God as orthodox because of filioque.
The Conception of St.Anne and Immaculate Conception are one and the same thing. As long as you are Catholic you must accept the Immaculate Conception of Mary and Papal Infallibility. If you don’t you’re outside the Church.
Why did you cut out “Papal Infallibility”???
Also, one can’t be born into schism but one accepts schism at or after the age of reason. A 5 year old can’t be in schism because of its inability to believe this, but a 20 year old who is Russian Orthodox through and through,who rejects the Church, is in schism. Anyways you may not want to call them schismatics they are heretics,becuase of the rejection of Christian Dogma.
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Rara_Avis
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Rara_Avis
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That’s funny!!!
The Saints are the way of the Church - We are all called to be saints - we are expected to study the Science of the Saints. The Saints are MORE than ammo they are our example! If you are doing things that the Saints would never do that is enough to say you shouldn’t be doing it!
So I guess you can go ahead and call it ammo!
I’ll load my gun with Saint ammo any day!!!
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JKirkLVNV
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Rara Avis:
Common sense tells me that he would have made the change if he’d been directed by the Holy See to do so. Love and obedience are what makes a saint.
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Rara_Avis
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Not above God - are you saying he was banned from saying the TLM?
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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Rara Avis:
But that is not what you are doing.
Yes you are right about studying the saints and living as they lived.
But that is not what you are doing.
- There is no proof that St Pio was against the Mass or Vatican II. All that is put forward is that St Pio said this to someone who is repeating it. I haven’t even seen it come from someone who claims that St Pio said it directly to them.
- There is proof that St Pio was obedient to the Church but that is explained away by saying that someone else wrote the letter and made St Pio sign it.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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Rara Avis:
St Pio was not banned from saying the TLM as has been stated. He could not have been bound to the Mass because it was not pomulgated until the year after he died at the earliest. He was not bound to the 1965 Missal as priests of an advanced age, as he was, were given an indult to continue with the TLM due to their age.
St Pio was obedient and he called others to be obedient.
It think the rad-Trads are hijacking this Saint becasue they are putting forward the idea that he can be used as an example of disobedience.
Hmmm, there are multiple examples where the Saints were obedient to the Bishops even when the Bishop was in error. Like Fatima, the seers were told to be obedient to the Bishop by Mary.
St Pio was not banned from saying the TLM as has been stated. He could not have been bound to the Mass because it was not pomulgated until the year after he died at the earliest. He was not bound to the 1965 Missal as priests of an advanced age, as he was, were given an indult to continue with the TLM due to their age.
St Pio was obedient and he called others to be obedient.
It think the rad-Trads are hijacking this Saint becasue they are putting forward the idea that he can be used as an example of disobedience.
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JKirkLVNV
Guest
Rara Avis:
*Please see the word “if.” The Church is the organ whereby the will of God is interpreted on the earth, for Catholics anyway. I feel confident that “common sense” (ie, the ability to recognize a pattern of obedience in the life of this saint) would demonstrate that Saint Pio would have made the change *if ** he’d been directed to do so.
Common sense tells me that he would have made the change* if** he’d been directed by the Holy See to do so. Love and obedience are what makes a saint.*
*Please see the word “if.” The Church is the organ whereby the will of God is interpreted on the earth, for Catholics anyway. I feel confident that “common sense” (ie, the ability to recognize a pattern of obedience in the life of this saint) would demonstrate that Saint Pio would have made the change *if ** he’d been directed to do so.
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