Did Paul forbid women from speaking in assemblies?

[PetraG]

You might also be interested in this apostolic letter written by Pope St. John Paul II, in which he treats the matter in more depth:

https://w2.vatican.va/content/john-...p-ii_apl_19940522_ordinatio-sacerdotalis.html

Yes, he said it was once and for all:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

Note the way he worded this: Not that the the Church forbids it or refuses to do it, but rather that the Church recognizes that the Church has “no authority whatsoever” to do it.

 

[AlNg]

You might also be interested in this apostolic letter written by Pope St. John Paul II, in which he treats the matter in more depth:

Is that an infallible declaration or can it be changed in the future?

 

[godisgood77]

I see it as a justification for male only clergy.

I see it a a pretty embarrassing moment for Paul. He is clearly a man of his time and was only espousing ideas from his time… Those ideas are clearly wrong and thank goodness our ideas on women’s equality with men have matured.

 

[PetraG]

Is that an infallible declaration or can it be changed in the future?

He said it is definitively to be held to be impossible. He did not say the Church will not ordain women or ought not ordain women or that the question was to be held closed for as long as he was Pope. He said the Church has “no authority whatsoever” to do it…that is, that the Church cannot do it.

Changed in the future? Literally: God forbid. Those who attempted to do it would be in apostasy. They would have renounced the faith by attempting what they have no authority to do. There are already small splinter groups doing this. May they repent, renounce what they did and return.

 

[rose321]

1 Corinthians 14:34. Paul says women cannot talk in gatherings, but if they want to learn something they should ask their husbands at home.

Does this still apply today?!

Respectfully opinion only to the topic questions did St Paul forbid women from speaking in assemblies?

Right in the beginning of God’s Spoken Word, His Creation God, Himself>>> has choosen a Woman or Women (future generations) who would all be partakers, share in equally in serving the Lord, within His Creation and His continued Plan of Salvation for All >>His Children>>>

Lord’s prayer taught by Jesus begins with>Our Father>we are His Children?

God choose Women to bring forth>> His Greatest Wealth, Treasure, His most Sacred Blessing, would come through the WOMB of a Woman>> A Child?

Right in the Beginning of Creation>>>God’s Greatest >> Sacred Blessing He gives us all>> The Gift of Life>> God has choosen to come through the WOMB of a Woman>>>to bring forth> a child

His Child>>female/male>>His Greatest Most Sacred Blessing>> Miracle, is it not a child>>His Gift of Life?

God himself has choosen>>>>> entrusted and has placed within>>The Hands of Woman, His most Sacred Blessing, His child, has he not?

Our Mothers are they not our are>>?
Our First Love?
Our First Teachers?
Our First Caregivers?
Our First to Shelter us?
Our First to Nourish us?
Our First to teach Discipline, teaching us to know right from wrong?
Our First Comfortor?
Our First Protectors?
Our First to give us and teach us Compassion? Forgiveness?
Our First, inleading us, giving us a positive sense of direction >>till we reach our youth?

Seems our Heavenly Father Himself has choosen and allows Woman not only to Speak, but to Teach also? Within His Kingdom?
Within His Nations?
Within His Beloved Family?

Within His Household, His Family>>Both Men and Woman are needed in serving the Lord, to maintain the Health, Prosperity, of His Loving Family Unity, Oneness? >>>" A House divided cannot stand" unqote

What then is Man role within His Creaton?

To fertilize the Seed of > Love>>2 >>Shall become ONE? Unity?
Both men and woman are equal, needed and called into serving the Lord? His Natural Law of Creation?

When the 2> Man/Woman, come together as ONE a>>>> Great Energy Source is created and needed to bring forth a >>Child?

Man without Woman or Woman without Man, both are Weakend are they not? Life> Human Life, Human Beings cannot continue to evolve continue to Prosper one without the other, can they?

And the 2 shall become ONE? Both are needed to maintain that Unity, are they not?

Both Men and Woman>>are called in serving the Lord, within His Kingdom? Within His Household? Within His Beloved Family?

“Wo” means>> same as Man, Wo/Man>Both are equal?

So my opinion only in searching within His Spoken Word and within His Creation, God has not only allowed>> Woman to Speak, but to Teach also?
Peace

 

[ColorMomma]

We are and do. Jesus appeared to the women first, after the resurrection. Women are a major source of faith building to their children and family members. If you talk to many priests, next to Our Mother Mary, their own mothers are the people they are closest to in life. Many, many priests credit their mothers as teaching them the faith.

Women are on the ground in the running of parishes and schools. We are the make it happen people. We are the get the kids to Confession people. We are the ones who teach religious education, and get children to Sacramental preparation people. We are also the people that tell their children not to squeeze their brothers hands during the Our Father people. Many fathers do these things too, but historically, it has been women who have been the major transmitters of The Faith.

 

[Curious11]

Women really are wonderful. I thank God for all my sisters on this Earth

 

[rose321]

Just out of curiosity, do you use some sort of program to write answers here?

Respectfully opinion only: Have no program, what ever that means, nor here to write answers, but in answering>> a question asked in the Topic Titled, giving ones opinion only> answering a question asked?
Did Paul forbid women from speaking in the assemblies? Believe he did searching, listing Biblical verses to letters St Paul wrote etc which testifies to such?
Peace

 

[PetraG]

Currently, there are rules that apply to clergy vs laypersons which reserve certain things (such as delivering the homily at Mass) to the clergy but there are no rules that limit female members of the laity in ways that male members of the laity are not limited.

Let’s face it: everyone has more to say in our times. Catholic Answers Forum is Exhibit A.

 

[AlNg]

Seems our Heavenly Father Himself has choosen and allows Woman not only to Speak, but to Teach also?

Why then did St. Paul not agree with you? Wasn’t he inspired by God?

 

[rose321]

Why then did St. Paul not agree with you? Wasn’t he inspired by God?

Respectfully Opinion only, But St Paul does agree, for one is using the Spoken Word HE himself has choosen Woman and St Paul’s own words and Jesus also>>when He also walked the earth>.all flows does it not throughout the bible?

So, as pointing out all the biblical verses where St Paul in his own Epistles, is even Naming and thanking all the Woman who served in the Lord?
Jesus Lord and Savior in the flesh had many Woman disciples more so then men, did he not?

Woman since beginning of time were given Honor, Blessed, Choosen and were called upon into Serving Our Heavenly Father at His greatest point in Time>> to bring about our Salvation?

We have Sarah? Study the story of the slave woman Hagar, lesson in teaching within also? Hannah? Rachel? Can list more Woman called upon within the OT>26 Woman more or less?

Then there is NT> Elizabeth (John Baptist?) Anna Mother of our Blessed Mother Mary? Mary Magdalene? Samaritan woman Jesus meets with for a reason, story to be retold and heard? Many Woman within the Community open their homes for Jesus Apostles to preach within, serving etc in ways also, going out repeating such Teaching, to those within the Community, calling them, inspiring other Hebrew Israelites to come and hear Him Speak on their Sabbaths etc?

Priscillia is one out of many, sets out to correct Apollo on the crucifixion?? Peace

 

[hope]

Priscillia ( teaching from St Paul on the crucifixion) takes aside Apollo (after he gives teaching on ) to correct him futher in teaching on the crucifixion.

She wasn’t alone however, her husband, Aquila, also.

Then Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately

.

 

[rose321]

Then Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they invited him to their home and explained to him the way of God more adequately

Respectfully Correct and agree with you, Priscilla was not alone.

then Priscilla and Aquila >heard him<< >>they<<>> invited him, to >>their>> home, so we cannot just assume Priscilla, did not speak out either?

Must be a reason why St Paul wanted to make known, mention and name>> Priscilla? St Paul could of just written and mentioned Aquila’s name only and Aquila invited Apollo to his home?

Priscilla must of been of service and influence and St Paul sought to acknowledge, mention her by Name>> Priscilla?

A time when Woman were not so acknowledged, by men in Jesus time either. Why Jesus defends the Women and the Widows through out his own teaching? Jesus had more Woman followers, disciples in serving him then men etc?

The Woman did not choose to run in fear either nor sought to hide at the time of Jesus great Persecution and Crucifixion like the men did?

But the Woman remained>>with great courage, strength>> right till the very end along Jesus side.
It was the Woman who remain at the foot of the cross.
It was the Woman who sought with great loving concern and in great sorrows>> to get Jesus off the Cross. Woman sought and in asking Joseph of Arimathia help to get Jesus off the Cross?
And it was the Woman, who later returned to the Tomb, to prepare and anoint Jesus body with oils for his burial, which only is done by a priest?

Interesting>>It was a Woman who anoints Jesus feet, to prepare Jesus upon entery into Jerusalem also? Anointing ones feet I have found is greater then one who annoints one head?

Jesus choose a Woman to speak to first, when he rose from the dead?

And it was Mary Magdalene, Jesus gave her instructions, to go and tell (speak to) the Apostles

Jesus choose a Woman>> Mary Magdalene to>> Proclaim>> He has risen, He is alive to the Apostles. Interesting is all.

Jesus never forbid Woman in serving Him, NT writings bares witness to that also and believe St Paul within his own writings, bares witness, he also did not forbid woman either from serving the Lord.
Peace

 

[hope]

Jesus had more Woman followers, disciples in serving him then men etc?
It was the Woman who sought to get Jesus off the Cross, seeking upon Joseph of Arimathia, before Passover began?
And it was the Woman who later came to the Tomb, to prepare and anoint Jesus body with oils for his burial, which is only done by a priest?

Where do you get this information?
I don’t recall any information on how many followed Jesus. If there were more women or more men, or an equal amount.
I do not find any scripture that says the woman sought to get Jesus off the cross only. Joseph of Arimathaea asked Pilot for the body(stated in every Gospel) and he and Nicodemus prepared Jesus body for burial. It was probably very hurried and not completed as that is why the women went to the tomb. However, maybe they just didn’t know that it had been done.
I don’t think that only done by a priest. One source I read said that men only buried men but women did both.
I found this article interesting
Ancient Burial Practices
You haven’t mentioned the greatest of women - Mary who never sinned and always did the will of God. Jesus first miracle was at her request

 

[Thom18]

I read the verse in question today. The Ignatius Study Bible basically says that this is a reinforcement of the idea that only men are allowed to “homilize”. Giving the homily is a man’s- specifically the pastor’s- job. At least, this is the ramification for us today. I’m not sure the early Church allowed female lectors.

 

[rose321]

However, maybe they just didn’t know that it had been done.

Respectfully the Woman stayed with Jesus from beginning to end and a Loving Blessed Mother:heart: would know and make sure it was done,that her Son, was laid to rest!! And was not Joseph of Arimathaea not Jesus Uncle through Joseph? very wealthy man and did he not sit on the Sanhedrin Counsel and being greatly wealthy because of his Business Trade had close business ties, with the Roman Rulers, why he goes directly to Pilate, with his request? In Jesus time and studying the Hebrew Israelite Traditions, a Brother took care of his deceased brothers wife, their families needs? Was it not also Joseph Arimathaea Tomb he prepared for himself, Jesus was laid within, already there, close by, Jospeh owned a Home, garden etc? Was also greatly known for His trade in other Nations, interesting the life story of Joseph Arimathaea, is it not?
Peace

 

[hope]

You are right about the women the point was however was that it wasn’t done only by a priest in fact I don’t think priest did it at all since it would make them ritually unclean. No Joseph was not Jesus" uncle but His disciple. Where do you get that the brother took care of the brothers’ wives? It was the sons who took care of the mothers’. It is why Jesus gave Mary’s care over to John.

 

[rose321]

Where do you get that the brother took care of the brothers’ wives? It was the sons who took care of the mothers’. It is why Jesus gave Mary’s care over to John.

Respectfully opinion. Lots of info on this at our finger tips. Jesus was a Hebrew Israelite Jew born and raised in and obeyed the> Torah Laws,.so was interested in their culture, laws, rituals, traditions, in Jesus time etc etc etc to understand more in what is wrtten within His Spoken Word of OT…

Sources> Books also written on and Just a few mention below, one could look up>sources one can look up if interested.
What is a Levirate Marriage?
Levirate Marriage and Halitzah
Levirate Marriage Ancient Judasim and Family
Interitance ( “yerushah” “nahalah”) Jewish Encyclopedia
Judaism 101 by looking up Marriage Laws
Yibbum -Wikedia >Deut 25:5-10
Understanding the Purpose of the Levirate Marriage and Symbolism
Part 10 Jewish Family responsibilty
Peace

 

[hope]

Such a marriage was only if there were no children. Otherwise the sons were to provide for their mother. As I already wrote, that is why Jesus Entrusted the care of his mother to John.

 

[KevinK]

I see it a a pretty embarrassing moment for Paul. He is clearly a man of his time and was only espousing ideas from his time… Those ideas are clearly wrong and thank goodness our ideas on women’s equality with men have matured.

Why didn’t God set him straight?