Did Protestants save the Catholic Church?

[Tony888]

My question is “did the Protestant Reformation save the Catholic Church?”

Where would the RCC be without the reactive Catholic-Reformation?

Competition often help us ‘improve our game’ and God knows humans better than we do

 

[ignatius777]

My question is “did the Protestant Reformation save the Catholic Church?”

Where would the RCC be without the reactive Catholic-Reformation?

Competition often help us ‘improve our game’ and God knows humans better than we do

It certainly brought about necessary corrections but “saved” it? I dont think so

 

[JustaServant]

With all due respect the question makes no sense. How does schism and splits ‘save’ that which they are splitting against? World-wide Protestantism has been declining for the past two centuries. Only in the US has it remained alive.
How is that ‘saving’ anything?

 

[Bearontherun]

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

The Church is never and will never be in danger of collapse. Christ promised to preserve Her and there is no external influence that can destroy the Church. From what I know, that is how we Catholics view it.

 

[jerry_joseph]

It is more fruitful and better to christianity and catholic church, if that renewal happened inside the church rather than what it happened outside the church.

 

[Tony888]

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

The Church is never and will never be in danger of collapse. Christ promised to preserve Her and there is no external influence that can destroy the Church. From what I know, that is how we Catholics view it.

So then you view Luther as an instrument of God, since he helped get the Catholic Church back on the path?

 

[TimothyH]

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

The Church is never and will never be in danger of collapse. Christ promised to preserve Her and there is no external influence that can destroy the Church. From what I know, that is how we Catholics view it.

Remember though, that Asia Minor was a Catholic stronghold early in the history of the Church, and now many of it’s most glorious buildings are used by Islam as mosques.

The Church in the world will not collapse, but she can rise and fall in areas and regions of the world. The Northeast USA is an example, as is Europe. The lampstand will not go complely out, but her individual candles certainly can.

-Tim-

 

[Tony888]

It is more fruitful and better to christianity and catholic church, if that renewal happened inside the church rather than what it happened outside the church.

Jerry, but if reforms inside the church were not working, then an outside influence was required

 

[jam070406]

Jerry, but if reforms inside the church were not working, then an outside influence was required

Who says reforms inside weren’t working? St. Francis of Assisi was called to reform the Church. He didn’t take it upon himself to split the Church and toss out doctrines.

 

[jam070406]

So then you view Luther as an instrument of God, since he helped get the Catholic Church back on the path?

Luther didn’t help the Church back on path. He led souls astray and was instrumental in the chaos that later followed.

 

[ConstantineTG]

My question is “did the Protestant Reformation save the Catholic Church?”

Where would the RCC be without the reactive Catholic-Reformation?

Competition often help us ‘improve our game’ and God knows humans better than we do

I would say it ruined it. In my opinion, the Reformation is more successful than the Catholic Church would admit. Just look around and see how Protestant the Roman Catholic faith is today. And I’m not talking about the OF Mass. People just express themselves more like Evangelicals than Catholics. Extreme legalism is just another form of Sola Scriptura. As a question here about the Catholic faith and you’ll get replies quoting Canon Law, CCC, and other documents, rather than good, sound Catholic teaching. For example, “why do we fast?” Answer, “because canon XXX says so”. Legalism.

 

[Bearontherun]

So then you view Luther as an instrument of God, since he helped get the Catholic Church back on the path?

No, I don’t quite see it like that. That would have been a destructive and “roundabout” way to do things IMHO. From my point of view, the Church continued despite Luther.

Remember though, that Asia Minor was a Catholic stronghold early in the history of the Church, and now many of it’s most glorious buildings are used by Islam as mosques.

The Church in the world will not collapse, but she can rise and fall in areas and regions of the world. The Northeast USA is an example, as is Europe. The lampstand will not go complely out, but her individual candles certainly can.

-Tim-

True. Good point.

 

[Waiting]

Luther didn’t help the Church back on path. He led souls astray and was instrumental in the chaos that later followed.

Is anyone remembering the role of the Holy Spirit? Forget Luther and any other so-called reformist. Keep your focus on the Holy Spirit and all will be well.

 

[Andromedus]

The Protestants themselves did not save anything, however as you said the Catholic Reformation/the counter-reformation was the Catholic Church’s reaction to the Protestant Reformation so in a way they did help the Catholic Church. But this ‘‘help’’ can be compared with the advice a devastating fire gives to a town made of wood, the fire makes the people realize that it might be a good idea to make buildings out of stone since it won’t burn down as easily. The fire did not do anything good in itself, neither the Protestant Reformation, at least not from a Catholic view. Well ok, I admit that the Protestant Reformation has contributed to some positive things, like a Bible translation not made in Latin but in my own language.

And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

The Church is never and will never be in danger of collapse. Christ promised to preserve Her and there is no external influence that can destroy the Church. From what I know, that is how we Catholics view it.

Perhaps, but if you have a wound on your body you don’t have to die from it right? And the fact that all Christians don’t stand united is a great wound on the Body of Christ, which we also knows as the Church, even if it won’t die because of it.

 

[jam070406]

I would say it ruined it. In my opinion, the Reformation is more successful than the Catholic Church would admit. Just look around and see how Protestant the Roman Catholic faith is today. And I’m not talking about the OF Mass. People just express themselves more like Evangelicals than Catholics. Extreme legalism is just another form of Sola Scriptura. As a question here about the Catholic faith and you’ll get replies quoting Canon Law, CCC, and other documents, rather than good, sound Catholic teaching. For example, “why do we fast?” Answer, “because canon XXX says so”. Legalism.

I sort of agree. I think the Faith has been watered down. And the worship has been changed to mimic Protestant worship. We have lost alot of our Catholic identity.

 

[Bearontherun]

Perhaps, but if you have a wound on your body you don’t have to die from it right? And the fact that all Christians don’t stand united is a great wound on the Body of Christ, which we also knows as the Church, even if it won’t die because of it.

Yes, I agree…we can see it as a non-fatal wound.

 

[stewstew03]

I would say it ruined it. In my opinion, the Reformation is more successful than the Catholic Church would admit. Just look around and see how Protestant the Roman Catholic faith is today. And I’m not talking about the OF Mass. People just express themselves more like Evangelicals than Catholics. Extreme legalism is just another form of Sola Scriptura. As a question here about the Catholic faith and you’ll get replies quoting Canon Law, CCC, and other documents, rather than good, sound Catholic teaching. For example, “why do we fast?” Answer, “because canon XXX says so”. Legalism.

Just so I understand your point, CTG, are you saying that, over time, Catholic dogma has become legalistic as a result of protestant evangelicals?

 

[ConstantineTG]

Just so I understand your point, CTG, are you saying that, over time, Catholic dogma has become legalistic as a result of protestant evangelicals?

Not dogma but how we approach the faith. Instead of being content by listening to the teaching of the Fathers of the Church, the Saints, our Holy Popes and Bishops, people now always ask for proof. Just look around in this forum. Some people don’t want answers unless there’s a link to some Catholic document somewhere to justify the answer. The same way Protestants only believe in something if it can be justified by a verse in the Bible.

That among others. The faith in itself hasn’t changed, but how the faith is practiced definitely has changed. But we are on a slippery slope now, people’s beliefs are being changed because of how the practices have changed.

 

[Contarini]

My question is “did the Protestant Reformation save the Catholic Church?”

Where would the RCC be without the reactive Catholic-Reformation?

Competition often help us ‘improve our game’ and God knows humans better than we do

From my perspective, the Counter-Reformation was largely disastrous. It locked Catholicism into a militantly triumphalist pattern for centuries. One of the worst things about the Reformation was that it provoked the Counter-Reformation.

Erasmus warned the Protestants about this early on, but of course they didn’t care, because they were convinced that theirs was the real “reform.”

Ideally, I would have liked to see reform more along the lines of Erasmus’ ideas. The Protestants killed any hope of that for 400 years.

I worry that the militant liberals in the Catholic Church today may be doing the same thing, and that the folks on this forum are essentially repeating the Counter-Reformation. But I pray not, and I do my best to be a kind of Erasmian voice here. Not that there’s much I can do, but I do what I can.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Jerry, but if reforms inside the church were not working, then an outside influence was required

The Protestants certainly didn’t see themselves as an “outside influence.”

And what does it mean for reforms to “work,” anyway?

I don’t think that’s how real renewal happens. The Church, as a human institution, is always a shoddy, corrupt, shambling mess. But God keeps renewing it anyway. It is forever being corrupted and forever being renewed. The idea that there’s some program of reform that will “work” is a fatal temptation. It is the seed of destruction within Protestantism, and it did serious damage to Catholicism as well.

Edwin