Did Saint Paul corrupt Christianity?

[steve_b]

Thanks for your answers everyone.

For those who asked for instances in scripture, I have heard people object to Paul calling himself a spiritual father to others because jesus said call no man father. They also claim that Paul is always defending his legitimacy as an apostle in his writings, as if It was called into question.

Father is mentioned 387 times in the NT. referring to God the Father and to an earthly father. Jesus is obviously making a different point

1. 
   *]New Testament (387)
   *]Matthew (71)
   *]Mark (17)
   *]Luke (48)
   *]John (113)
   *]Acts (38)
   *]Romans (9)
   *]1 Corinthians (7)
   *]2 Corinthians (4)
   *]Galatians (6)
   *]Ephesians (11)
   *]Philippians (4)
   *]Colossians (5)
   *]1 Thessalonians (5)
   *]2 Thessalonians (3)
   *]1 Timothy (3)
   *]2 Timothy (2)
   *]Titus (1)
   *]Philemon (2)
   *]Hebrews (7)
   *]James (4)
   *]1 Peter (4)
   *]2 Peter (2)
   *]1 John (12)
   *]2 John (3)
   *]Jude (1)
   *]Revelation (5)

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Here’s something fascinating about Islam’s view of St. Peter. The Shia Muslims believe that Peter was the first “Imam” after Jesus.

Peter’s figure, especially in Shia theology, is important as he is generally regarded as the first Imâm (Leader) after Jesus,[3] and therefore is in accordance with the Christian (specifically the Roman Catholic) view of Peter as the ‘Prince of the Apostles’.

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_in_Islam

MJ

That’s interesting. Admittedly I do not know much about Shia theology. Mainly learned about the Sunnis and Ahmadis.

Well, unfortunately in this crazy world of rejecting the orthodox Teachings of Catholic Bishops, there is pretty much anything under the sun you can imagine.

justgivemethetruth.com/paul_was_a_deceiver.htm

I will admit that some of their arguments seem convincing! Paul had a way of saying a lot of things that could easily be misunderstood! I’ve even considered starting a thread about all the seemingly contradictory statements he made. Of course in good fun. He was truly a great Apostle, working harder than all the rest.

Just sort of skimmed through it and it looks like modern day Judaizers…

And you are right about Paul’s words…easily twisted as Peter said.

 

[rcwitness]

Just sort of skimmed through it and it looks like modern day Judaizers…

And you are right about Paul’s words…easily twisted as Peter said.

They do seem like Judaizers.

What do you think about a thread that addresses Paul’s seeming contradictions? Sometimes I think most of the divisions in “Bible interpretation” stem from misunderstanding St. Paul. It makes me wonder why Paul was afforded the greater portion of NT Scripture! Nevertheless, he wrote some amazing Revelations!

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Thanks for your answers everyone.

For those who asked for instances in scripture, I have heard people object to Paul calling himself a spiritual father to others because jesus said call no man father. They also claim that Paul is always defending his legitimacy as an apostle in his writings, as if It was called into question.

Acts 7:2Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)

2 And Stephen said:

“Brethren and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our** father Abraham**, when he was in Mesopota′mia, before he lived in Haran,

That ^^^ was not written by Paul, it was written by Luke.

Saint Stephen was the first Christian martyr. Says “our Father Abraham”. The same way we address our clergy today.

If Stephen had been in error using the term Father, it would not be recorded in scripture this way.

Jesus used hyperbole(exaggeration to make a point) in some instances. Ask the people who question calling a priest Father if their eyes or hands have been involved in any sin? When they say yes, ask them why they have not yet cut them out /off?

Matthew 18:8-9Amplified Bible (AMP)

8 “If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble and sin, cut it off and throw it away from you [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into everlasting fire. 9 If your eye causes you to stumble and sin, pluck it out and throw it away from you [that is, remove yourself from the source of temptation]; it is better for you to enter life with only one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fiery hell

That’s why we need the Church 1 Tim 3:15 to clear up confusion and teach sound doctrine.

As far as Paul defending his legitimacy, I’ll leave that alone unless they can provide specific verses. It’s just conjecture. Paul CORRECTED the ROCK, Peter. He was not confused in any sense of the word, about who he was or his standing with the Lord.

 

[Bookcat]

Did Saint Paul corrupt Christianity?

No.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

They do seem like Judaizers.

What do you think about a thread that addresses Paul’s seeming contradictions? Sometimes I think most of the divisions in “Bible interpretation” stem from misunderstanding St. Paul. It makes me wonder why Paul was afforded the greater portion of NT Scripture! Nevertheless, he wrote some amazing Revelations!

I’d love to see/participate in the thread if you compose it.

And even though Paul has more books, it’s actually LUKE who authored most of the NT because ACTS/LUKE actually make up more pages than Paul’s letters.

And so Muslims sometimes make the claim that Paul and Luke were in this conspiracy together to propagate this false version of Christianity, and not the true “Injeel” delivered by Isa(Jesus) and restored by Islam.

 

[Bookcat]

For a good understanding of Paul I think you will find these audiences of Pope Benedict XVI interesting…

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061025_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061115_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061122_en.html

Series from the Year of St. Paul

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080702_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080827_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080903_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080910_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080924_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081001_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081008_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081015_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081022_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081029_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081105_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081112_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081203_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081210_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090107_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090114_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090128_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090204_en.html

books that contain them:

ignatius.com/Products/SPAUL-H/saint-paul.aspx

ignatius.com/Products/JAEC-H/jesus-the-apostles-and-the-early-church.aspx

 

[Wesrock]

Hey all,

I was wondering if anyone could give me a good refutation of the argument that Paul “hijacked” Christianity. Many people use verses from the Pauline letters that seemingly contradict the gospels. Some groups seem adamant the Paul is an antichrist. Does anyone have a straightforward way of refuting this claim?

Thanks,
Potato1237

Some protestant groups allege that there was a tension between the “Judaizing” twelve apostles and Saint Paul, who was appointed to “correct” these errors. They then find passages which they believe support these tensions. And that opens the door of division between Saint Paul and the original disciples for others to claim Saint Paul was a corruptor of original Christianity.

The Catholic Church does not teach that there’s any division between the message of Saint Paul and the original twelve. It professes that they taught one gospel and one faith. It always had, and that’s why we understand Saint Paul differently than some of our evangelical brethren, and why we see Saint Paul teaching faith working through love, the apostolic nature of the Church, participation in Christ, and the sacraments.

If there was no division, and those who allege a division likely see Paul in an evangelical way, there was no corruption.

 

[rcwitness]

I’d love to see/participate in the thread if you compose it.

And even though Paul has more books, it’s actually LUKE who authored most of the NT because ACTS/LUKE actually make up more pages than Paul’s letters.

And so Muslims sometimes make the claim that Paul and Luke were in this conspiracy together to propagate this false version of Christianity, and not the true “Injeel” delivered by Isa(Jesus).

Ok, I’ll start a thread soon… I want to be careful how I approach it. Light hearted, but intending to give clarity to what seem like contradictions. It could actually be a 1000 post thread!

 

[Lenten_ashes]

Ok, I’ll start a thread soon… I want to be careful how I approach it. Light hearted, but intending to give clarity to what seem like contradictions. It could actually be a 1000 post thread!

LOL…might want to embolden the part assuring the audience/participants that you are in no way questioning Paul. Your inbox will be full of hate mail

 

[Beryllos]

It makes me wonder why Paul was afforded the greater portion of NT Scripture!

Probably because he liked to write long letters. Who else was writing at the time? The Gospels, I gather, were communicated orally at the time and were committed to writing some years later.

 

[rcwitness]

Probably because he liked to write long letters. Who else was writing?

Which reminds me of another seeming contradiction. Paul wrote much about many things, yet claims to merely preach Christ and Him crucified:

1 Cor. 2
When I came to you, brethren, I did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God in lofty words or wisdom.*For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified.*And I was with you in weakness and in much fear and trembling;*and my speech and my message were not in plausible words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and power,*that your faith might not rest in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.

 

[rcwitness]

I have heard St Paul described as an “egghead” from independent bible Christians!

When they read all his letters, it gets overwhelming!

 

[Potato1237]

Jewish.
webring.org/l/rd?ring=protorahantipaul;id=4;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ejustgivemethetruth%2Ecom%2F

Edit: Ok, actually I looked more into this ‘sherry shriner’ person and she just seems insane. The website claims to be pro-torah which appears like some kind of radical zionist thing, but I looked up the person ‘‘sherry shriner’’ who’s behind justgivemetruth and she calls herself a prophet, and is into a lot of conspiracies so…just seems kinda cultish and nutty.

Interesting. I have actually heard of this person, maybe Catholic answers did an article at one point? I can’t recall.

 

[Bookcat]

For a good understanding of Paul I think you will find these audiences of Pope Benedict XVI interesting…

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061025_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061108_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061115_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20061122_en.html

Series from the Year of St. Paul

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080702_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080827_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080903_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080910_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20080924_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081001_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081008_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081015_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081022_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081029_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081105_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081112_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081119_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081126_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081203_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2008/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20081210_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090107_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090114_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090128_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/audiences/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20090204_en.html

books that contain them:

ignatius.com/Products/SPAUL-H/saint-paul.aspx

ignatius.com/Products/JAEC-H/jesus-the-apostles-and-the-early-church.aspx

 

[Potato1237]

Bookcat:
Thanks for the great resources bookcat! I hope to read them all.

 

[rcwitness]

I’d love to see/participate in the thread if you compose it.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=14477848#post14477848

 

[Goya]

Hey all,

I was wondering if anyone could give me a good refutation of the argument that Paul “hijacked” Christianity. Many people use verses from the Pauline letters that seemingly contradict the gospels. Some groups seem adamant the Paul is an antichrist. Does anyone have a straightforward way of refuting this claim?

Thanks,
Potato1237

Don’t try to ‘refute’ it…be humbly, eternally grateful for it.

Yes, St. Paul absolutely corrupted Christianity–he dared take Christianity out of the exclusive possession of the Jews, and bring it to the gentiles. I think it’s safe to say that most–a vast majority of us–are blessed to be Christian, as a result of St. Paul’s opening Christ’s teachings to ‘the gentiles’.

Had St. Paul not corrupted it, I’d like to believe that the Holy Spirit would have recruited and engaged another for the task preaching the Gospel to the gentiles…but that is mere hypothetical, and since it was St. Paul who answered the call, then my gratitude on that count, goes to St. Paul.

Humbly…eternally.

 

[Nelka]

No.