Did Satan know Jesus was God?

[AveCorMariae]

I was in a discussion with a friend about the movie “The Passion of the Christ” and somehow we got on the subject of whether Satan knew Jesus was God. My friend insisted that Satan did not know until after Jesus died and resurrected. I just can’t believe he wouldn’t have known but I need to find a Scripture passage to support my stance. I’m not sure I can clearly defend my opinion.

I would love to hear others thoughts and more importantly, what does the Church say about this?

In Her Heart,
Catherine

 

[Spirithound]

My friend insisted that Satan did not know until after Jesus died and resurrected. I just can’t believe he wouldn’t have known but I need to find a Scripture passage to support my stance.

Satan certainly knew a lot sooner than that. I don’t know if he knew right from Jesus’s birth tho. I have read that Satan tempted Jesus in the desert in order to ascertain whether He was truly God. If not there, then Satan must have seen what Jesus was doing to the demons.

 

[stephen_ryan]

Only by Divine Revelation could anyone besides God know Jesus was God. Remember Jesus said, ‘It was my Father in Heaven Who revealed that to you’…(Peter). Therefore Satan couldn’t have known absolutely…he could only suspect.

The Trinity is a Divinely revealed Mystery. After Jesus’ death, when Salvation had been accomplished, Satan was given to understand how he’d accomplished his own defeat and played right into the hands of God…

It would not have been after the Resurrection as that was not what accomplished Satan’s defeat but the Passion and Death of Jesus. The Resurrection showed God’s plan for our eternal salvation through Jesus’ victory on the Cross.

At Jesus’ death Satan realized how he’d been used for his own defeat. Gibson shows the screams of Satan at that moment when he realizes this. Jesus’ death on the cross was death to sin and our hope of eternal salvation. The Resurrection is our visible proof that Jesus awaits us in Heaven.

So no, Satan couldn’t know that Jesus was God unless it were Divinely revealed to him by God. There is much more to be said on that however…it’s late.

 

[AveCorMariae]

Only by Divine Revelation could anyone besides God know Jesus was God. Remember Jesus said, ‘It was my Father in Heaven Who revealed that to you’…(Peter). Therefore Satan couldn’t have known absolutely…he could only suspect.

That certainly makes a lot of sense. So based on what you’ve said coupled with what Spirithound posted does that mean in Matthew 8:28-29 the demons were just guessing that he was the Son of God? Below is the passage:

28 And when he was come on the other side of the water, into the country of the Gerasens, there met him two that were possessed with devils, coming out of the sepulchres, exceeding fierce, so that none could pass by that way. 29 And behold they cried out, saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

And what did they mean by ‘before the time’? Did they know something was up with Him? What was the demons’ understanding of the Messiah?

Giving credit where credit is due I copied the quote from the online Douay-Rheims Bible, drbo.org/.

In Her Heart,
Catherine

 

[stephen_ryan]

Just a quick answer, more to come later.

The understanding of ‘son of God’ in the OT was, if i’m not mistaken, ‘one favored by God’. This was used for some angels. But to know that this referred to a Divine Person of the Blessed Trinity could not have been known without Divine Revelation. Without knowing the demons’ thoughts we can only ‘guess’ at what they thought at any moment. But that was the main understanding before Jesus’ Revelation of Himself as ‘Son of God’, an understanding which was then brought to completion in Tradition, Scripture and Church teachings by the Holy Spirit through the Apostles until the death of the last one. Now no more new Revelation.

The demons knew ‘something was up with Him’ for sure. They’d seen their buddies expelled time and again; they’d seen him cure and raise others from the dead; they saw His perfect Human Nature outshining all those around Him; they heard His words. And remember the woman of whom Jesus said, ‘Someone touched me. I felt power go out of me.’ The demons too could sense that power. It is a power often felt in the presence of the Blessed Sacrament, the power of God-made-Man Jesus Christ.

Without having asked any demons what they understood by ‘Messiah’ i couldn’t say for certain what they understood. We do know that the fact the Messiah was to be the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity could only be known by Divine Revelation, so it is almost certain they would not have held that idea. The Jewish nation saw the messiah as a great king and warriour who would free the Jews from slavery and give them dominion over everyone else. That was not Jesus, hence the blindness of so many in not recognizing Him.

I could make a good educated guess on ‘before the time’, but i’d rather check a few sources and get back to you. I pray this helps, and is not too long or convoluted.

 

[willj1365]

My opinion is that at the very least, Satan suspected Jesus was God after the temptation in the desert. In my Bible (Good News Bible) Luke 4: 2-13 refers to the tempting by the “Devil”. I am assuming this is Satan and not some lesser evil spirit correct? The devil tempts him 3 times and Jesus of course resists. Satan begins by asking Jesus “If you are God’s son, order this stone to turn into bread”. It is unclear if Satan assumes He is God or if the devil is suspicious.

But by the third temptation, Jesus answers “Do not put the Lord your God to the test”. This was the clearest response from Jesus that let the devil knew that he was tempting the Lord. I think after this, and the fact that Jesus did not give in to the devil who “tempted Jesus in every way” Satan was pretty sure it was Jesus. Wasn’t Satan supposed to be a very intelligent angel?

Also - would Satan have had anyone other than Jesus be able to resist his “tempting in every way”? A sinner would have given in, Satan would not be used to someone being able to resist so much temptation.

 

[stephen_ryan]

Satan had no doubt that Jesus was Jesus…his doubt was as to just who Jesus was in his person. I have no doubt you are you, but i might doubt if you’re a human being or an angel in human form. I don’t know you and i don’t know where you come from. Mind this is just an imperfect example. So to say that Satan was sure who Jesus was isn’t fully accurate. Satan is incredibly intelligent, some say the most intelligent of all the angels. Yet the mystery of the Incarnation, God-made-Man would still have been a revelation as that was above their natural knowledge. And yet he’s the most stupid for look where he’s at now…

That Jesus didn’t do those miracles is a fact. Each temptation started with a challenge, ‘IF’. I don’t recall a single miracle done in answer to a challenge. Always done in mercy and compassion to help someone. Now Jesus did challenge before miracles…‘Do you believe? Can you believe?’ The Pharisees also challenged Him to do miracles and proof and Jesus refused. So the darkness of the Pharisees, the Saducees and the demons continued from their lack of faith. Faith brought the dawn of light as to who Jesus was.

Also, miracles are not a sign of Divinity…only of God’s favor working in someone’s life. Old Testament prophets worked miracles for the good of the people, but they were most certainly not God. They were favored by God…sons of God if you will. So Jesus saying ‘Do not tempt the Lord your God’ isn’t a proof that He is God necessarily, but that in Satan asking Jesus to do these miracles, Jesus would be asking God to suspend natural law to do them. So Jesus could conceivably mean, ‘Do not tempt the Lord your God to do these miracles through me’, though we know that’s not so through Divine Revelation and our own Catholic Faith.

Finally, the Blessed Mother could have resisted every temptation…in fact she did! She most certainly was not God, and i doubt Satan ever thought she was. But he darn sure feared her.

I pray i didn’t ramble too much and laid my thoughts out clearly. Our Lady, Queen of the Universe, pray for us!

 

[AveCorMariae]

Happy Solemnity of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist!

Your explanation certainly makes sense to me. However, I’ll confess that it led to a few more thoughts and questions, which is a good thing. I’ll have to post a new question as it will stray from the original but the one that really started floating in my head is when does the OT first mention the Messiah and how do we know what the people thought that meant?

Today is a travel day for me but when I get to my hotel tonight I’ll put that question out there. Unfortunately my knowledge of the OT and, actually, Scripture as a whole are wanting. :blushing:

 

[Prayer_Warrior]

I believe Satan knew Jesus was the Son of God (see Matthew 4), but did not realize the full gravity of what it meant to be God’s Son. Here is a paragraph from the book Sign of the Cross by Bert Ghezzi which has a fascinating take on what the devil knew and what he didn’t know.

"Christ’s victory on the cross came as a complete surprise to the devil. He had expected that he would win by taking the life of God’s Son. Satan did have a claim against human beings. He knew that because of our sins we had a debt to pay that would cost us our lives. But he made a huge mistake by attempting to take the life of Christ, the sinless one against whom he had no claim at all. Instead of the cross achieving the devil’s great design to destroy Jesus, the cross cost him his control over all humanity.
The Fathers of the Church taught that had Satan realized what God intended to accomplish for us in Christ, he would never have pursued the Crucifixion. For instance, read carefully this reflection by St. Leo the Great (d. 461), who was pope in the mid-fifth century:

That God might deliver humanity from the bonds of the death-bringing transgression, He concealed the power of Christ’s majesty from the fury of the devil ( see 1 Cor 2:8) and offered him instead the infirmity of our lowliness. For had this proud and cruel enemy known the plan of God’s mercy, he would have striven rather to temper with mildness the hearts of (those who crucified Christ) rather than to inflame them with evil hate, so that he might not lose the slavery of all his captives, while he pursued the liberty of the one who owed him nothing." p. 85

Wow! Our God is an awesome God!

 

[stephen_ryan]

In response to ACM…how do we know what the people thought back then is a very broad question. Ask people today what they understand by ‘The Anti-Christ’ and you’ll get a wide array of varying opinions. But i’ll wait for you to open your new thread before we go into that.

It’s important to stay away from opinion…‘In my opinion’…that doesn’t help to get to the truth of the matter. Unless i totally misunderstand the aim of these blogs. What i think Satan knew or didn’t know is not the reality of what he knew or didn’t know. The fact still remains that Satan could not know Jesus was the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity unless it were revealed to Him. Can you show me that particular fact? No. Suspicions he might have had.

Your quotes are very inspiring, but are not any proof of what Satan did know or not know about ‘who’ this man was. As for realizing the full gravity of what it meant to be God’s Son, no one outside of God Himself could ever ‘fully realize’ that since it is an infinite Truth and our minds and the minds of the demons are finite.

So, still it seems, Satan didn’t realise Jesus was the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity until just after His death on the Cross. Blessed Anna Katherine Emmerick, visionary, is the foundation for Gibson’s movie scene where the devil screams at the moment of Christ’s death where he realizes Jesus is the Son of God. In fact, your quote talks of how God concealed the power of Christ’s majesty…leading me to understand once again, that Satan did not know who Jesus was until after the fact of the Death on the Cross when his defeat was secured for all eternity.

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Satan as Lucifer was jealous of Jesus and knew who Jesus was before him and a third of the angels were tossed out of Heaven.

If he knew Him then–don’t think that He didn’t know Him later.

Satan really believed that Jesus was embrace at least one of the trillions of sins that He bore on the cross–all Satan needed was for Jesus not to perfectly bear all the sins on the cross.

When Jesus did perfectly bear all the sins of the world on the cross–Satan knew he was defeatred but being the liar that he is he deludes himseolf into believing that he can still beat God.

He can’t–he’s lost–and the end is a foregone conclusion–but we still have to persevere until the end not to join him.

By ourselves we can’t do tht–with God we can.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Satan knew right away, that is why he prompted Herold to destory the children.

Matthew 2 with Rev 12, Herold represented by the red dragon.

Your stongest argument is the fact that the demons recognized who Jesus was right away when they saw him, I doubt that the prince of demons would be less observant. Your friend can argue that Satan did not know what God’s plan was concerning the cross, but that does not mean Satan did not know who he was.

Matthew 8:29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Mark 5:7
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

In his temptation, Satan knew exactly who Jesus was,

Matthew 4
The Temptation of Jesus

1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2 After fasting for forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.

3 The tempter came to him and said, If you are the **Son of God,** tell these stones to become bread.

Note: apeal to Jesus as creator.

4 Jesus answered, It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.

6 If you are the **Son of God,** he said, throw yourself down. For it is written:

‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

7Jesus answered him, It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendour.

9 All this I will give you, he said, if you will bow down and worship me.

10 Jesus said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I think he knew long before the temptaion in the desert, and long after when he tempted another in a cave.

 

[Zooey]

Oh, I think that satan knew exactly Who Jesus was; what he didn’t know, was what He was planning…
This is something I actually realized from watching " Passion of the Christ"; all the time, satan was thinking that getting Jesus killed was going to be a big defeat for God, & then he suddenly saw that Jesus had come to earth precisely…in order to die.
And he was furious, enraged, because his pride was hurt, for one thing: he thought he was so smart–“I will ascend to the throne of God; I will be the most high”…“I will, I will, I will”…And now, all his tricking & scheming–is what has defeated him.

(I don’t use the capital “S” for satan, because it’s an honorific, & I have no intention of honoring him).

 

[Mordocai]

Herod tried to kill Jesus because Herod was probably possessed/tempted by satan to kill all the first borns.

I suspect (my own opinion) that satan would have been able to sense the fact that “hey! there’s a divine person inside that lady who, curiously enough, hasn’t responded to a single temptation of mine!”

unless of course God hid it from the devil. i dont think so though

is that not why we celebrate the feast of the holy innocents?
i think satan knew, thats why he tempted herod to kill all the first borns.

Mordocai

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

My understanding is that Jesus and Angels (including Satan) existed before our world was created.

Satan was beautiful (Ezekiel 28:12), and perhaps this was the excuse for his pride.

But Satan became jealous when other other Angels worshipped Jesus, and thats when he became rebellious and thrown out of heaven.

So, my understanding is that Satan knew Jesus was God before our world was created.

:twocents:

 

[sharonh28]

I have been asking my questions in the non-Catholic religions sections, today I had and AHA moment and this is the forum for me. I was searching basically for the 40 days in the dessert and the temptaion.

I have had JWs coming here for the last 6 months, doing “Bible Study” Don’t bother, I already know it is the subject of the day study with only their references.

One of them says she converted from Catholicism (I am amazed that so many Catholics have found hapinees in the hope of their children playing with lions). She, even though attending Catholic Schools for most of her education, is sadly and woefully unaware of the teachings of the Catholic Church in general and Bible references in particular. (15 years of CAtholic education and a couple of Theology classes for me but I still can’t contradict them with chapter and verse…ugh)

I have gotten them off topic several times and corrected them on what the CAtholic Church teaches (especially to the once Catholic lady) and it does frustrate them to be taken off of their “lesson plan” Everytime they read “a” God from their WT Bible, I underline “the” in my Bible and show it to them.

They are lovely ladies and because they are taking this opportunity to prostelecize (sp?) to me, I have wanted to take the opportunity to do the same with them and I do realize that in apologetics there should be no “aha, got ya” moments. When talking with them I could use scriptural help A LOT. Do we not have some Bible Guide that guides by TOPIC? That would be really helpful.

Finally I’m getting to my question: Last 2 studies, and in order to proceed, we must get beyond this “snag” - “SATAN RULES THE WORLD” by them proven that Satan offered the world and its kingdoms(among other things) to Jesus after the 40 days. They say that if they were not Satan’s to offer then Jesus would not have been tempted and in the reading they quote the word temptaion is used. They claim that if they were not Satan’s to offer then it would not be a real temptation - so my saying “who says he could have backed that up?” go nowhere. In the end they want me to say that Satan does rule the world - and do site several instances in scripture that back that up. Of course, not read in context, (I hate the jumping around) - they say to read the rest on my own but that the truth is in their few feeble verses.standing alone. They also say that most people say God rules the world and that is wrong. From my background, I understand that God gave the earth to men who have a free will. If at any moment he decided to come down from heaven and actually "rule the world…he could and would, but instead he has left this world to men to be it’s steward. Men have free will and can entrust that will to God or to Satan. Is there any biblical reference that would show that Satan is not the Ruler of the world, but that God allows him to exist in our world but he does not rule it. thanks

 

[Cristiano]

Only by Divine Revelation could anyone besides God know Jesus was God. Remember Jesus said, ‘It was my Father in Heaven Who revealed that to you’…(Peter). Therefore Satan couldn’t have known absolutely…he could only suspect.

The Trinity is a Divinely revealed Mystery. After Jesus’ death, when Salvation had been accomplished, Satan was given to understand how he’d accomplished his own defeat and played right into the hands of God…

I think that you are confusing Divine Revelation to mankind with Divine Revelation to the angels (fallen or not). The Divine Revelation to the all the angels was probably completed immediately after the fall of Lucifer and the other demons.

 

[MH84]

I think that you are confusing Divine Revelation to mankind with Divine Revelation to the angels (fallen or not). The Divine Revelation to the all the angels was probably completed immediately after the fall of Lucifer and the other demons.

Yeah, but I don’t think they who knew “Jesus” (the incarnate God)was. They knew who the Second Person of the Divine Trinity was from before the world was made. I think that maybe the plan of salvation was hidden from satan, including the fact of the Incarnation.

Its like a mum whom the children know, but if she dresses up in a constume and appears in front of them the children are not sure you that is.

 

[MH84]

Satan knew right away, that is why he prompted Herold to destory the children.

Matthew 2 with Rev 12, Herold represented by the red dragon.

Your stongest argument is the fact that the demons recognized who Jesus was right away when they saw him, I doubt that the prince of demons would be less observant. Your friend can argue that Satan did not know what God’s plan was concerning the cross, but that does not mean Satan did not know who he was.

Matthew 8:29
And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Mark 5:7
And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Luke 8:28
When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

In his temptation, Satan knew exactly who Jesus was,

Matthew 4
The Temptation of Jesus

1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.
2 After fasting for forty days and forty nights, he was hungry.

** 3 The tempter came to him and said, If you are the Son of God,** tell these stones to become bread.

Note: apeal to Jesus as creator.
4 Jesus answered, It is written: ‘Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.’

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple.

6 If you are the **Son of God,** he said, throw yourself down. For it is written:

‘He will command his angels concerning you, and they will lift you up in their hands, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.’

7Jesus answered him, It is also written: ‘Do not put the Lord your God to the test.’

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendour.

9 All this I will give you, he said, if you will bow down and worship me.

10 Jesus said to him, Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'

11 Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.

You have a different interpretation to this part of Matthew than I do. When satan was asking Jesus to turn these stones to bread I don’t think he was appealing to Jesus as the Creator as you have said. Probably more like a Moses-type figure.

Son of God in the Bible does not neccessarily mean “God the Son”; although Son of God is uite an authoratative title no doubt about that. In the geneology Adam was referred to as son of God:

drbo.org:
36 Who was of Cainan, who was of Arphaxad, who was of Sem, who was of Noe, who was of Lamech, 37 Who was of Mathusale, who was of Henoch, who was of Jared, who was of Malaleel, who was of Cainan, 38 Who was of Henos, who was of Seth, who was of Adam, who was of God.

KJB (University of Virginia Library)
36: Which was the son of Cainan, which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,
37: Which was the son of Mathusala, which was the son of Enoch, which was the son of Jared, which was the son of Maleleel, which was the son of Cainan,
38: Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.