Did St. John Chrysostom say this?

[chessmane4e5]

I was presented with this quote but could not find a source. I know it is on the person who gave it to me to prove the source, but I was wondering if anyone here knew where this is from, because I am pretty sure Chrysostom did not say this.

“Formerly it might have been ascertained by various means which was the true church, but at present there is no other method left for those who are willing to discover the true church of Christ but by the Scriptures alone. And why? Because heresy has all outward observances in common with her. If a man, therefore, be desirous of knowing the true church, how will he be able to do it amid so great resemblance, but by the Scriptures alone? Wherefore our Lord, foreseeing that such a great confusion of things would take place in the latter days, ordered the Christians to have recourse to nothing but the Scriptures.”

 

[COPLAND_3]

I found a source that says its in Homily 49 Matthew 24. I have not found it, but I will keep looking. Its not in the numbering system found in my collection. And a source says its in his Homilies on 2 Corinthians Homily 13, but again I have not found it based upon the numbering system in my collection.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I was presented with this quote but could not find a source. I know it is on the person who gave it to me to prove the source, but I was wondering if anyone here knew where this is from, because I am pretty sure Chrysostom did not say this.

“Formerly it might have been ascertained by various means which was the true church, but at present there is no other method left for those who are willing to discover the true church of Christ but by the Scriptures alone. And why? Because heresy has all outward observances in common with her. If a man, therefore, be desirous of knowing the true church, how will he be able to do it amid so great resemblance, but by the Scriptures alone? Wherefore our Lord, foreseeing that such a great confusion of things would take place in the latter days, ordered the Christians to have recourse to nothing but the Scriptures.”

I wouldn’t put too much it this quote if true. You must remember that the Church was still evolving in its understanding of herself. At one time or another many of the Fathers held opinions which would should not be held as true. And they probably didn’t hold them as firm and irrevocable judgments but more along the lines of a passing thought.

We must also realize that he died in 438 so an awful lot of Catholic Doctrine had not yet been defined, so it was possible to hold or discuss different positions. But St. John was a doctor of the Church so his othodoxy cannot be doubted.

 

[COPLAND_3]

I can’t find it in my search. The only places I find it is in certain arguments that oppose the Catholic Church. I don’t know if that is a certain translation of Chrysostom, but I cannot find it in my collection. Sometimes the different publications have their own numbering systems, but the one given by those sources I found do not match up with my collection at all. First of all it says its found in Homily 49 of Matthew 24. Here is Homily 49 newadvent.org/fathers/200149.htm. Its not there. Here is chapter 24 of Matthew in Chrysostom’s homilies sites.google.com/site/aquinasstudybible/home/matthew-commentary/st-john-chrysostom-on-matthew/chapter-1/chapter-2/chapter-3/chapter-4/chapter-5/chapter-6/chapter-7/chapter-8/chapter-9/chapter-10/chapter-11/chapter-12/chapter-13/chapter-14/chapter-15/chapter-16/chapter-17/chapter-18/chapter-19/chapter-20/chapter-21/chapter-22/chapter-23/chapter-24

Its not there either. This has me curious. Is this a real quote, or is it a deceptive attempt to make it appear Chrysostom is saying something that fits an agenda?

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

I wouldn’t put too much it this quote if true. You must remember that the Church was still evolving in its understanding of herself. At one time or another many of the Fathers held opinions which would should not be held as true. And they probably didn’t hold them as firm and irrevocable judgments but more along the lines of a passing thought.

We must also realize that he died in 438 so an awful lot of Catholic Doctrine had not yet been defined, so it was possible to hold or discuss different positions. But St. John was a doctor of the Church so his othodoxy cannot be doubted.

Well he said that it was a teaching by Christ, presumably from the apostles. When the fathers are in unanimous agreement or directly attribute a doctrine to the apostles it is generally considered to have dogmatic weight. (Because they are claiming it to be in the deposit of faith and therefore it is Fides Divina Dogma.)

 

[chessmane4e5]

I was able to find this

This is from a book written in 1832 titled “The history, institutions and tendencies of the Church of England examined by Scriptural Authority being a reply to the letter of Vice-Admiral Stirling” by Thomas Schofield.

So this seems to be a reply to something that Charles Stirling wrote, I couldn’t find that though. Since Mr. Schofield does not cite very many of his quotes and given how I am pretty sure no one used the words “Scripture Alone” until the reformation, I am pretty sure this quote is a fake. If anyone has anymore information, please share.

 

[Inego_de_Loyola]

I know it to be fake because it is claiming apostolic authority against the apostles successors.

 

[St_Francis]

I can see that this could be a true quote, but meaning something totally different from what we think it means.

In his time, the Canon had been finalozed relatively recently (in the 300s), so he could be writing it meaning that one has to exclude writings which were not accepted as part of the canon of Sacred Scripture. He might have been arguing against using those “books” which reappear from time to time called “the lost books of the Bible,” and/or heretical writings.

When the Protestants say Scripture alone, they exclude Tradition and the Magisterium.

The way I see it is that with someone like St John Chrysostom,'if I read something that sounds off, I have to figure out what he *really *meant and not what I think he meant.

 

[Linusthe2nd]

I was able to find this

This is from a book written in 1832 titled “The history, institutions and tendencies of the Church of England examined by Scriptural Authority being a reply to the letter of Vice-Admiral Stirling” by Thomas Schofield.

So this seems to be a reply to something that Charles Stirling wrote, I couldn’t find that though. Since Mr. Schofield does not cite very many of his quotes and given how I am pretty sure no one used the words “Scripture Alone” until the reformation, I am pretty sure this quote is a fake. If anyone has anymore information, please share.

Any source from the " reformers " would have to be seriously questioned. The lies and distortions they heaped upon the Church was just mind blowing. And it still goes on by the enemies of the Church. Yes, the " document " may have been doctored or even fraudulent altogether.