Did St. Peter and/or the Apostles really say that?

[childofmary1143]

I was watching the movie called St. Peter (imdb.com/title/tt0441897/)

and in the movie it showed St. Peter and the Apostles after Pentecost, denying Baptism to a few Romans as they were Pagan and not Jews. After the 2nd time God had inspired St. Peter to change and allow a Baptism. Some of the Apostles, esp. St. Matthias were aghast. Now I don’t know the Bible as well as I should but was that true that willing people even Pagans were denied baptism??

 

[Tantum_ergo]

I cannot find any place in the New Testament where St. Peter (or any other apostle) refused baptism to someone who sincerely desired it on the ground that they were ‘pagan’. Probably just another example of a movie taking ‘liberties’ with ‘the text’. (I loathe and detest movies based on books; have never yet seen one anywhere near as good as the original book!)

 

[Peter_Da_Rock]

Context has to do with scripture defining scripture and using the context of the conversation to understand the conversation

Why should I believe your interpretive context over a interpretive context that has withstood the gates of hell for nearly 2000 years?

 

[gus]

I cannot find any place in the New Testament where St. Peter (or any other apostle) refused baptism to someone who sincerely desired it on the ground that they were ‘pagan’. Probably just another example of a movie taking ‘liberties’ with ‘the text’. (I loathe and detest movies based on books; have never yet seen one anywhere near as good as the original book!)

Since there could have possibly been a significant amount of time between the founding of the church and Peter’s Revelation concerning Gentiles.
(Maybe the most significant doctrinal event in Church History)
(I don’t recall Peter calling a council to help with that one)
Its quite possible given the Jewish aversion to Gentiles that the events in the movie were possible.

 

[Verbum]

Hi Child__,

No, there is no incident like this in the Bible. But in Acts chapter 11, there is a hint of controversy after Peter, under the inspiration of the holy spirit, entered the house of a pagan, ate there and baptized the whole household.

So the movie is based on reality.

Verbum

 

[Mike_Brick]

Since there could have possibly been a significant amount of time between the founding of the church and Peter’s Revelation concerning Gentiles.
(Maybe the most significant doctrinal event in Church History)
(I don’t recall Peter calling a council to help with that one)
Its quite possible given the Jewish aversion to Gentiles that the events in the movie were possible.

Actually what you describe was the very first Church Council:

Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:2)

When and where: c49AD, Jerusalem

Crisis or controversy: Gentile converts must follow Mosaic Law; “Unless you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved.” Acts 15:1

Attendees: “Apostles and presbyters” Acts 15:6, and the following notables: Paul and Barnabas, Peter, James (Acts 15:6-22)

Decrees and resolutions: “It is the decision of the Holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities.” Acts 15:28

And you are right, many of the Jewish converts, (Pharisees), believed Jesus only came for the Jews and in the beginning insisted gentile converts must first become Jews. Peter, aware that God did not make that demand of Cornelius, which he learned in his vision reported by St. Luke in Acts Chapter 10, set the rest straight and said there would be no requirement that gentiles must first be circumsized and follow Jewish law.

Peace to All

 

[guanophore]

I was watching the movie called St. Peter (imdb.com/title/tt0441897/)

and in the movie it showed St. Peter and the Apostles after Pentecost, denying Baptism to a few Romans as they were Pagan and not Jews. After the 2nd time God had inspired St. Peter to change and allow a Baptism. Some of the Apostles, esp. St. Matthias were aghast. Now I don’t know the Bible as well as I should but was that true that willing people even Pagans were denied baptism??

The first Christians were all Jews, and they believed that salvation was from, and for, the Jews. It was not until the Spirit revealed otherwise to Peter that they began to catch on. Peter got into trouble with the other Apostles for baptizing the Pagan converts. Acts says that he told them “how could water be forbidden?” It sounds as if, prior to that revelation to Peter, baptism may not have been given to Gentiles.

 

[NotWorthy]

Baptism was not given to Gentiles before Peter and the Centurion. I believe this was at least 10 years after the Pentecost. This was the whole reason behind the controversy regarding the Centurion. If it had been done prior to Peter’s Revelation, then why the controversy.

 

[gus]

Actually what you describe was the very first Church Council:

Council of Jerusalem (Acts 15:2)

When and where: c49AD, Jerusalem

Crisis or controversy: Gentile converts must follow Mosaic Law; “Unless you are circumcised according to the Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved.” Acts 15:1

Attendees: “Apostles and presbyters” Acts 15:6, and the following notables: Paul and Barnabas, Peter, James (Acts 15:6-22)

Decrees and resolutions: “It is the decision of the Holy Spirit and of us not to place on you any burden beyond these necessities.” Acts 15:28

And you are right, many of the Jewish converts, (Pharisees), believed Jesus only came for the Jews and in the beginning insisted gentile converts must first become Jews. Peter, aware that God did not make that demand of Cornelius, which he learned in his vision reported by St. Luke in Acts Chapter 10, set the rest straight and said there would be no requirement that gentiles must first be circumsized and follow Jewish law.

Peace to All

Actually I respectfully disagree
The Acceptentece of gentiles was in Acts 10,11
the council was convened well after the conversion of the first gentiles
The council was convened to address the Judizers interference in already Christain Gentile practice. more disciplinary than doctrinal

 

[Mike_Brick]

Actually I respectfully disagree
The Acceptentece of gentiles was in Acts 10,11
the council was convened well after the conversion of the first gentiles
The council was convened to address the Judizers interference in already Christain Gentile practice. more disciplinary than doctrinal

You are right, we first saw discussion of the conversion of gentiles in chapter 10 and Peter’s vision in 11. Remember the Church was dispersed by the persecution which claimed the life of the first martyr, Stephen, and the word was slow getting around. That dispersed community fled even as far as Phoneicia, Cyprus and Antioch, (Acr 11:19).

The first verse of Acts 15 tells of the continuing controversy when some men came down to Antioch and taught, “Unless you are circumcised according to Mosaic practice, you cannot be saved”, (Acts 15;1). In verse 5, after Paul, Barnabas and some others went up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and presbyters about that question, some of the converted Pharisees again got up and demanded that gentiles be circumcised and told to keep the Mosaic law. In verse 6 and continuing through 35 we see the discription of the deliberation and decision of the Council at Jerusalem, which was not to burden gentile converts with Mosaic law and practice.

Peace

 

[patrick457]

I was watching the movie called St. Peter (imdb.com/title/tt0441897/)
and in the movie it showed St. Peter and the Apostles after Pentecost, denying Baptism to a few Romans as they were Pagan and not Jews. After the 2nd time God had inspired St. Peter to change and allow a Baptism. Some of the Apostles, esp. St. Matthias were aghast.

The incident was fictional, but was probably done to show the idea that many things in the Church are revealed one-by-one and not just come out in complete form i.e. the ‘growth’ of the Church.

St. Peter was also a normal man, he denied Jesus yet later repented so it might be possible he had some inherent reservations towards Gentiles until the ‘winding sheet full of animals’ incident.

They were born Jews; they grew up in a Society that considers itself the Chosen people and views Gentiles as some uncircumcised and unclean band of barbarians that has no knowledge of the true God.

 

[NotWorthy]

They were born Jews; they grew up in a Society that considers itself the Chosen people and views Gentiles as some uncircumcised and unclean band of barbarians that has no knowledge of the true God.

Exactly!!!

And was this a tough sell (Salvation includes the Gentiles)? Yes! Just look at Jesus. When he reads the Scroll of Isaiah telling of the release of the prisoners at the beginning of His public ministry in Luke he’s praised by the local populace.

Moments later, Jesus indicates that Gentiles are included, and what do the Jews do? They try and throw Jesus off a cliff.

If Peter would have tried to include the Gentiles early on in the New Covenant Church, the whole thing could have blown up in his face.

 

[gus]

Exactly!!!

And was this a tough sell (Salvation includes the Gentiles)? Yes! Just look at Jesus. When he reads the Scroll of Isaiah telling of the release of the prisoners at the beginning of His public ministry in Luke he’s praised by the local populace.

Moments later, Jesus indicates that Gentiles are included, and what do the Jews do? They try and throw Jesus off a cliff.

If Peter would have tried to include the Gentiles early on in the New Covenant Church, the whole thing could have blown up in his face.

Exactly that’s why Peter’s Revelation was so extraordinary
Yet Apologists on thiese board go on and on about the council of Jehrusalem. Who said what etc.
The other significiant Petrine unilaterial decision was apostoligic succesion. This insured the continued existance of the Church
after the apostalic age.

 

[richardeekw]

I was watching the movie called St. Peter (imdb.com/title/tt0441897/)

and in the movie it showed St. Peter and the Apostles after Pentecost, denying Baptism to a few Romans as they were Pagan and not Jews. After the 2nd time God had inspired St. Peter to change and allow a Baptism. Some of the Apostles, esp. St. Matthias were aghast. Now I don’t know the Bible as well as I should but was that true that willing people even Pagans were denied baptism??

Remember, you are waching a MOVIE.
Sometimes without glamour and surprises, it will not attract viewers.

But it is goo for a start.
Sear the Scriptures and reliable Catholic endorsed works such as the Catholic enclopedia, for the TRUTH and the Truth shall et you free.