Did St. Thomas put his fingers into Jesus hand and side?

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I was reading this Sunday’s Gospel and just wondered;what the title of this thread inquires.

The part in question:

John 20: 27-29 (DRB)

**Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.

Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God.

Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.
**

Im siding that St. Thomas did not. Jesus reiterates that St. Thomas has seen and believed and not “Seen, touched and believed”. Lets not sell St. Thomas short.

What say you?

MJ
 
I was reading this Sunday’s Gospel and just wondered;what the title of this thread inquires.

The part in question:

John 20: 27-29 (DRB)

**Then he saith to Thomas: Put in thy finger hither, and see my hands; and bring hither thy hand, and put it into my side; and be not faithless, but believing.

Thomas answered, and said to him: My Lord, and my God.

Jesus saith to him: Because thou hast seen me, Thomas, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and have believed.
**

Im siding that St. Thomas did not. Jesus reiterates that St. Thomas has seen and believed and not “Seen, touched and believed”. Lets not sell St. Thomas short.

What say you?

MJ
It is not clear… Thomas’ exclamation does denote an “eureka” moment… this could have happened in either case… Thomas came to the realization either through close inspection (as Jesus’ challenge would have forced him to focus his glance at the wounds) or through tactile experience… in either case his disbelief was counter through direct experience (corpus Christi) not through Faith on Jesus or the Disciple’s experience.

Maran atha!

Angel
 
Jesus was standing in front of Thomas not just saying ‘if you really want to, you can check out my wounds’ but ordering him ‘give me your hand and put it here and here.’

If it were anyone else one might feel free to say ‘no thanks, I don’t need to’, but I doubt Thomas would be churlish enough to refuse a direct command from the Lord.
 
For what it’s worth: Among the instruments of the passion relics housed at Santa Croce in Gerusalemme in Rome is the finger bone of St Thomas. :eek: :tsktsk: :dancing:

tee
 
In one of her books, Dorothy Sayers says that the others knew that Jesus had risen, but hadn’t caught the implications of that. Thomas knew that if He had risen He must be Divine. That was more than he could accept on the word of others; so required his own check. Hence his response “My Lord and My God”. She maintains that he was actually several steps ahead of the others.
 
I don’t think that Thomas dared to put his hand inside of Jesus’ chest. I think he knew that to stick his hand inside of Jesus’ chest and to touch the heart of God would have been instant death for him.

Remember that this is John’s Gospel. Whenever we read John’s Gospel we should have the Eucharist in the back of our mind. and remember that the author of Hebrews refers to Jesus’ flesh as “The curtian” of the temple.

Therefore, brothers, since through the blood of Jesus we have confidence of entrance into the sanctuary by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, and since we have “a great priest over the house of God,” let us approach with a sincere heart and in absolute trust, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water. (Hebrews 10:19-22)

Only the high priest went behind the curtian, into the Holy of Holies, and even then only once each year. A priest had to be perfectly holy to enter the Holy of Holies. they tied a rope around his leg in case he wasn’t holy enough and was struck dead, so they could pull his body out.

John’s Gospel was written after the other three Gospels and after most of the epistles, and was most probably written much later than the epistle to the Hebrews. Hebrews is a rich theological work and whether it established the idea of the curtain of the temple through which the high priest passed to enter the Holy of Holies as a prefigurement of Christ’s flesh or simply expressed an idea which had already been established, the image would have been prodound for a Jew. To a Jew, worshipping at the temple was the most important thing he would do in his life and the day which the priest went behind the curtain to atone of the sins of the people was the most important day on the calendar. The Day of Atonement was more important than even Passover. Even to this day, Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement is the holiest day of the year for the Jews.

The author of John’s Gospel is not called “John the Theologian” for nothing. Paintings of John often picture him with an eagle, because Eagles fly higher than any other bird and have incredible eyesight. John is telling us something very profound here, and what he is telling us is Eucharistic.

***But Jesus cried out again in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit. And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two *from top to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split, (Matthew 27:50-51)

Non-Catholics who insist that the tearing of the curtain of the Temple in Matthews Gospel means that we have direct access to God are not wrong, they just don’t understand the Eucharistic nature of the Gospels. We do have direct access to God, but it is not just spiritual access, it is Eucharistic access. We can access God directly through the Eucharist.

Thomas knew it was Jesus and didn’t dare stick his hand into Jesus flesh, behind the curtain, and touch the heart and soul of God. But all the disciples that day and all Catholics throughout Christian history have direct access to God “Behind the curtain” in the Eucharist. When we approch the Eucharist, even though we don’t see the nail marks in Jesus’ hand and even though we cannot place our hand into his side, we can still touch and recieve the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of God. We are the ones whom Jesus called blessed for believing though we don’t see his nail marks. And like Thomas when we step forward to recieve, we should cry out “My Lord and my God!”

To me, the entire passage is Eucharistic. Thomas refused to believe, but when saw that it was Jesus, he immediately realized that Jesus was God. Thomas was a Jew, and Jews understood temple worship. The temple was where God dwelt with men and here was God standing right in front of him. Thomas didn’t dare reach “Behind the curtain” for fear of being struck dead like the high priest.

And that’s why Jesus left us the Eucharist, as a sacrament of the real thing to come, when we die, if we should be lucky enough to get to heaven where we will be able to go behind the curtain for real.

-Tim-
 
Jesus was standing in front of Thomas not just saying ‘if you really want to, you can check out my wounds’ but ordering him ‘give me your hand and put it here and here.’

If it were anyone else one might feel free to say ‘no thanks, I don’t need to’, but I doubt Thomas would be churlish enough to refuse a direct command from the Lord.
While you view is noted (and I actually thought this since that it was an order by Jesus), St. Thomas had mentioned earlier in John 11:16, when Lazarus has just died, that even though the apostles don’t want to go back to Judea, where the Jews had wanted to stone Jesus to death : “Thomas therefore, who is called Didymus, said to his fellow disciples: Let us also go, that we may die with him.” Seems to be a person who puts his heart on his sleeve.

Furthermore for whatever reason even though he was not with the disciples in John 20: 19 (which I find peculiar; why wasn’t he? He didn’t fear the Jews?) , St. Thomas again with his heart on his sleeve in anxiety wanted to see and put his hands into the holes of Jesus’ hands and side. In a sense Jesus “order” was only because St. Thomas wanted that. So my feeling is that St. Thomas upon Jesus telling him to do it, didn’t need to. All Jesus had to do is show the marks.

St. Thomas infact says the most important thing (and we still talk about it don’t we?, that Jesus is Lord and God). In comparison we should note that the others were “Glad” to see Jesus but not in the way of the sincere awe of St. Thomas.

MJ
 
While you view is noted (and I actually thought this since that it was an order by Jesus), St. Thomas had mentioned earlier in John 11:16, when Lazarus has just died, that even though the apostles don’t want to go back to Judea, where the Jews had wanted to stone Jesus to death : “Thomas therefore, who is called Didymus, said to his fellow disciples: Let us also go, that we may die with him.” Seems to be a person who puts his heart on his sleeve.

Furthermore for whatever reason even though he was not with the disciples in John 20: 19 (which I find peculiar; why wasn’t he? He didn’t fear the Jews?) , St. Thomas again with his heart on his sleeve in anxiety wanted to see and put his hands into the holes of Jesus’ hands and side. In a sense Jesus “order” was only because St. Thomas wanted that. So my feeling is that St. Thomas upon Jesus telling him to do it, didn’t need to. All Jesus had to do is show the marks.

St. Thomas infact says the most important thing (and we still talk about it don’t we?, that Jesus is Lord and God). In comparison we should note that the others were “Glad” to see
Jesus but not in the way of the sincere awe of St. Thomas.

MJ
See it’s interesting that in your example it’s Thomas alone out of the 12 who actually agrees to do what Jesus says - ie go with Him to Jerusalem. Even though he is convinced no good will come of their doing so.

As for why he was not with the other apostles - well, we don’t really know. My priest in his Sunday sermon suggested that some people in times of grief and stress (and the period after Jesus’ death was certainly that) tend to withdraw from their friends and prefer to be alone. Thomas might have been one such person.

But it’s just as possible that he was only temporarily absent (after all, someone had to go buy food and do all the other necessary errands, no?) Obviously he was still near enough that the others could talk to him about eBay happened.
 
I don’t think that Thomas dared to put his hand inside of Jesus’ chest. I think he knew that to stick his hand inside of Jesus’ chest and to touch the heart of God would have been instant death for him.

Remember that this is John’s Gospel. Whenever we read John’s Gospel we should have the Eucharist in the back of our mind. and remember that the author of Hebrews refers to Jesus’ flesh as “The curtian” of the temple.

Therefore, brothers, since through the blood of Jesus we have confidence of entrance into the sanctuary by the new and living way he opened for us through the veil, that is, his flesh, and since we have “a great priest over the house of God,” let us approach with a sincere heart and in absolute trust, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed in pure water. (Hebrews 10:19-22)

Only the high priest went behind the curtian, into the Holy of Holies, and even then only once each year. A priest had to be perfectly holy to enter the Holy of Holies. they tied a rope around his leg in case he wasn’t holy enough and was struck dead, so they could pull his body out.

John’s Gospel was written after the other three Gospels and after most of the epistles, and was most probably written much later than the epistle to the Hebrews. Hebrews is a rich theological work and whether it established the idea of the curtain of the temple through which the high priest passed to enter the Holy of Holies as a prefigurement of Christ’s flesh or simply expressed an idea which had already been established, the image would have been prodound for a Jew. To a Jew, worshipping at the temple was the most important thing he would do in his life and the day which the priest went behind the curtain to atone of the sins of the people was the most important day on the calendar. The Day of Atonement was more important than even Passover. Even to this day, Yom Kippur or the Day of Atonement is the holiest day of the year for the Jews.

The author of John’s Gospel is not called “John the Theologian” for nothing. Paintings of John often picture him with an eagle, because Eagles fly higher than any other bird and have incredible eyesight. John is telling us something very profound here, and what he is telling us is Eucharistic.

***But Jesus cried out again in a loud voice, and gave up his spirit. And behold, the veil of the sanctuary was torn in two ***from top to bottom. The earth quaked, rocks were split, (Matthew 27:50-51)

Non-Catholics who insist that the tearing of the curtain of the Temple in Matthews Gospel means that we have direct access to God are not wrong, they just don’t understand the Eucharistic nature of the Gospels. We do have direct access to God, but it is not just spiritual access, it is Eucharistic access. We can access God directly through the Eucharist.

Thomas knew it was Jesus and didn’t dare stick his hand into Jesus flesh, behind the curtain, and touch the heart and soul of God. But all the disciples that day and all Catholics throughout Christian history have direct access to God “Behind the curtain” in the Eucharist. When we approch the Eucharist, even though we don’t see the nail marks in Jesus’ hand and even though we cannot place our hand into his side, we can still touch and recieve the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of God. We are the ones whom Jesus called blessed for believing though we don’t see his nail marks. And like Thomas when we step forward to recieve, we should cry out “My Lord and my God!”

To me, the entire passage is Eucharistic. Thomas refused to believe, but when saw that it was Jesus, he immediately realized that Jesus was God. Thomas was a Jew, and Jews understood temple worship. The temple was where God dwelt with men and here was God standing right in front of him. Thomas didn’t dare reach “Behind the curtain” for fear of being struck dead like the high priest.

And that’s why Jesus left us the Eucharist, as a sacrament of the real thing to come, when we die, if we should be lucky enough to get to heaven where we will be able to go behind the curtain for real.

-Tim-
Hi, Tim!

…a very fervent and informative post! :clapping::clapping::clapping:

Maran atha!

Angel
 
While you view is noted (and I actually thought this since that it was an order by Jesus), St. Thomas had mentioned earlier in John 11:16, when Lazarus has just died, that even though the apostles don’t want to go back to Judea, where the Jews had wanted to stone Jesus to death : “Thomas therefore, who is called Didymus, said to his fellow disciples: Let us also go, that we may die with him.” Seems to be a person who puts his heart on his sleeve.

Furthermore for whatever reason even though he was not with the disciples in John 20: 19 (which I find peculiar; why wasn’t he? He didn’t fear the Jews?) , St. Thomas again with his heart on his sleeve in anxiety wanted to see and put his hands into the holes of Jesus’ hands and side. In a sense Jesus “order” was only because St. Thomas wanted that. So my feeling is that St. Thomas upon Jesus telling him to do it, didn’t need to. All Jesus had to do is show the marks.

St. Thomas infact says the most important thing (and we still talk about it don’t we?, that Jesus is Lord and God). In comparison we should note that the others were “Glad” to see Jesus but not in the way of the sincere awe of St. Thomas.

MJ
Hi, MJ!

…my take on St. Thomas is a little different… I see him as skeptic and somewhat sardonic… (“yeah, let’s all go there so we call all be killed!”) ("yeah, I’ll believe as soon as I can prove to myself that we got a "dead man walking!’)

I do concur with you that, once he came to grip the reality of the Resurrection, St. Thomas was the most expressive about Jesus Divinity.

Maran atha!

Angel
 

As for why he was not with the other apostles - well, we don’t really know. . …
I have seen it suggested that he was younger than the others. When they all ran, he ran faster and further; so it took him longer to get back. 😃
 
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