Did that "Ancient Serpent" Satan have anything to do with the Age of Dinosaurs?

[Semangelof]

Whenever I think of dinosaurs I invariably get caught up on Tyrannosaurs Rex and it’s little “Quaid start the reactor” arms… Seriously what happened there.

 

[Della]

When I first saw Jurassic Park (I know–it was fiction) I was really looking forward to seeing dinosaurs brought to screen life. The first one they showed close up was a large herbivore, and it was impressive, I have to say. Just like the characters in the story I just sat and went: “Ooh, aah!” But then the camera panned to a group below the hill grazing near a pond and all it once it hit me how beautiful they were. I actually teared up thinking how wonderful is our God who made such magnificent creatures and how I wished I could have seen one living in our own time. Of course, I don’t think I’d be as willing to be out in the open with a T. Rex, but still, even that monstrous beast fills me with awe.

I do think they were meant to come before us and then die off long before we were created and that we were to find their bones and marvel. Not at evolution, but at God’s infinite creativity and how connected we are to all creation.

I like the idea that the weak out lasted the mighty and powerful. It certainly fits with our Catholic understanding of Christ becoming a lowly human being to save us. I can see that connection, but I can’t believe Satan had anything to do with the design/creation of large dinosaurs any more than he has in the design and creation of the smallest insect. Rather, I can see him reveling in their great size and power just for the sake of those attributes. I can appreciate what the dinosaurs were, but I am happy the big dangerous ones lived long before our time.

 

[bcuster]

As to their extinction, I believe that he taught them to smoke.

 

[Darryl_B]

Most dinosaur experts believe that dinosaurs had growth and development patterns more similar to today’s birds and mammals than reptiles. They grew fast, stopped growing when they reached adult size and had relatively short life spans for such massive creatures, pretty much the exact opposite of large reptiles.

I know it is only Wikipedia, but it is a good place to start.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physiology_of_dinosaurs#Growth_and_lifecycle

Thanks. There really is no such thing as a dinosaur expert. They have no idea whether TRex eg was land or water based or both, they have no idea whether it ate meat or fruit or veges, whether it was passive or aggressive or passive aggressive. They have no idea whether the skin was like a hippo or a crocodile or a bird (without feathers) or a mammal (without fur). There are simply just bones in varying sizes. The rest is just purely opinion. And within 20 years that opinion will all have changed, just like it has in the last 20 years.

I am working off the crocodile alligator and turtle tortoise and lizard tuatara growth rates, which are reptilian.

 

[Darryl_B]

Ok,

I guess I misunderstood!!

No probs Jon. I sometimes see movies like Jurassic Park where the TRex is huge (compared to many of the samples we have of TRex skeletons) but still able to leap around like a spring chicken, when it would really be a granddaddy at that size, and it would be slow in mind and body. But then I also see the velociraptor and it doesn’t look like a spring chicken when it should.

 

[Darryl_B]

When I first saw Jurassic Park (I know–it was fiction) I was really looking forward to seeing dinosaurs brought to screen life. The first one they showed close up was a large herbivore, and it was impressive, I have to say. Just like the characters in the story I just sat and went: “Ooh, aah!” But then the camera panned to a group below the hill grazing near a pond and all it once it hit me how beautiful they were. I actually teared up thinking how wonderful is our God who made such magnificent creatures and how I wished I could have seen one living in our own time. Of course, I don’t think I’d be as willing to be out in the open with a T. Rex, but still, even that monstrous beast fills me with awe.

I do think they were meant to come before us and then die off long before we were created and that we were to find their bones and marvel. Not at evolution, but at God’s infinite creativity and how connected we are to all creation.

I like the idea that the weak out lasted the mighty and powerful. It certainly fits with our Catholic understanding of Christ becoming a lowly human being to save us. I can see that connection, but I can’t believe Satan had anything to do with the design/creation of large dinosaurs any more than he has in the design and creation of the smallest insect. Rather, I can see him reveling in their great size and power just for the sake of those attributes. I can appreciate what the dinosaurs were, but I am happy the big dangerous ones lived long before our time.

Do you need to believe dinosaurs died off before mankind? I don’t. We co-existed, and it was about 2004 when they first found blood vessels in TRex bone specimens. That would be impossible if the model developed in the early 1970s concerning the iridium layer projecting the extinction of dinosaurs (a meteorite that killed out all dinosuars but left everything else intact) to 65 million years ago, and which is currently taught by the BBC and also in schools at primary level as absolute fact, were remotely true.

 

[Christ_is_Risen]

Do you need to believe dinosaurs died off before mankind? I don’t. We co-existed, and it was about 2004 when they first found blood vessels in TRex bone specimens. That would be impossible if the model developed in the early 1970s concerning the iridium layer projecting the extinction of dinosaurs (a meteorite that killed out all dinosuars but left everything else intact) to 65 million years ago, and which is currently taught by the BBC and also in schools at primary level as absolute fact, were remotely true.

If you don’t believe there are any dinosaur experts, just piles of bones and opinions, then your suppositions above are equally baseless.

But, considering this is a not a science forum, I will call it a draw. I would encourage you to read more about the K-T event and the 2004 discovery though.

smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/dinosaur.html

 

[Della]

Do you need to believe dinosaurs died off before mankind? I don’t. We co-existed, and it was about 2004 when they first found blood vessels in TRex bone specimens. That would be impossible if the model developed in the early 1970s concerning the iridium layer projecting the extinction of dinosaurs (a meteorite that killed out all dinosuars but left everything else intact) to 65 million years ago, and which is currently taught by the BBC and also in schools at primary level as absolute fact, were remotely true.

I believe what they found were holes in the bones through which they believe blood vessels ran–there is a difference.

Also, the myths about monstrous beings in Greek and Roman mythology came about because they found dinosaur bones and extrapolated mythological creatures from them. They got a lot of them wrong–as to what they were and how they probably functioned as living creatures, but they knew about them and studied them. This is how we get stories about huge creatures from mythology, not because humans lived with them.

Also, there are many large living sea creatures that put man in awe, as well. But none of them are the mega creatures that died out long ago.

It may be that 65 million years is not the correct time frame–it could have been closer to our time than that, but still, there were no living velociraptors or T. Rexs during the time of modern man. The reason we know this is not mere speculation but based on the sound biological principle of species interaction with their environments. Large carnivores and mid range omnivores simply can’t co-exist. When man came to the Americas, for example, the smilodones disappeared due to competition with man. Other large species also disappeared that could not compete. Even a T. Rex would be no match for us since we are more intelligent and more agile. Although, velociraptors would have given us a good run for the money. Another good reason to see why they and man did not and could not live together. In our own times we are seeing a huge decrease in lions and tigers and other carnivores due to competing with man. It’s a romantic notion that we lived with dinosaurs, but it didn’t happen. The closest thing we have to them is birds.

 

[Darryl_B]

I believe what they found were holes in the bones through which they believe blood vessels ran–there is a difference.

Yes. I can see that they would be very excited about finding holes in bones. After all they probably hadn’t found holes in TRex bones prior to this. What you believe is not what was claimed.

It may be that 65 million years is not the correct time frame–it could have been closer to our time than that, but still, there were no living velociraptors or T. Rexs during the time of modern man. The reason we know this is not mere speculation but based on the sound biological principle of species interaction with their environments. Large carnivores and mid range omnivores simply can’t co-exist. When man came to the Americas, for example, the smilodones disappeared due to competition with man. Other large species also disappeared that could not compete. Even a T. Rex would be no match for us since we are more intelligent and more agile. Although, velociraptors would have given us a good run for the money. Another good reason to see why they and man did not and could not live together. In our own times we are seeing a huge decrease in lions and tigers and other carnivores due to competing with man. It’s a romantic notion that we lived with dinosaurs, but it didn’t happen. The closest thing we have to them is birds.

Actually that is evidence that suggests dinosaurs existed along-side man-kind, not vice-versa. You are saying where man is animals become extinct. That is what happened to the dinosaurs. I think you might also be working on the opposite. If man co-existed with dinosaurs, then it would be man that was wiped out. All animals are very very afraid of man. They recognize that man has been given dominion and they shy away from man. And the most dangerous animal in Africa is not the Lion, it is the Hippo a vegetarian.

 

[Della]

Yes. I can see that they would be very excited about finding holes in bones. After all they probably hadn’t found holes in TRex bones prior to this. What you believe is not what was claimed.

Then I’d like to see a reliable source for this.

Actually that is evidence that suggests dinosaurs existed along-side man-kind, not vice-versa. You are saying where man is animals become extinct. That is what happened to the dinosaurs. I think you might also be working on the opposite. If man co-existed with dinosaurs, then it would be man that was wiped out. All animals are very very afraid of man. They recognize that man has been given dominion and they shy away from man. And the most dangerous animal in Africa is not the Lion, it is the Hippo a vegetarian.

Actually, smilodon loved to munch on human beings, as did/do other carnivores. Besides, this wasn’t my point. I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. And no, not all animals are afraid of man. Polar bears certainly aren’t, neither are grizzlies. If you get too close to a lion it will attack and tigers cannot be tamed no matter what some people think. Your notions are overly simplistic about how nature works, I’m afraid. You have to stop reading pseudo-science websites. If you want to think that dinosaurs and man lived together you are free to do so, but you cannot prove it anymore than it can be proved otherwise. However, the evidence in nature does not support human/dinosaur co-habitation, except for some species of birds. That’s simply the fact of the matter.

 

[BrunoMaria]

We read in Apoc.-Revelation that Satan and his Angels where thrown on earth. Since that happened millions of years before the first human was there; I often asked: “How about the idea, that indeed Lucifer’s legions where this whole bunch of dragons, as dinosaurs where all ugly and of horrifying kind, shape and size - and finally suddenly where wiped out of the surface of earth?”

Well, could it be – we cogitated (knowing it was a very queer idea) – what about if all these terrible and ugly and beastly dinosaurs where the devils as long, as… there was no hell made for them?

And then; hell is very far away of heaven and there is an unbridgeable gap between, as we know of Luke 16,28

Paleontologists wonder, why the saurian and similar disgusting “animals” of that time, disappeared sort of “at once”, after they had lived many millions of years. (By impact of a meterorite or whatever)

Might be it’s all a really silly thought - we too said; don’t let anybody hear us talking suchlike

But who knows… Might be they (the angels around Satan) had to suffer the penalty to be tumb animals before they finally landed as devils in hell. It anyhow all happened Millions of years before the first human was created. What’s Hundreds of Millions of years to God?! And here where no humans created yet to be on earth.

God created Angels a humans in His likeness. Lucifer’s legions however had lost the right of a physiognomy in God’s likeness. So, they must look ugly and when it comes to this - be ugly. God surely didn’t create anything ugly.

I simply refuse to believe, that God created such horrid creatures like dinosaurs. Therefore tend to believe, that this where the daemons cast on the earth. I know it’s a queer idea and even friends protest. But all God created, was of absolute beauty and harmony. Those disgusting creatures where not, and funnily enough they where all destroyed same time world-wide. This looks like the hand of God.

Well - we will know after our death. And I accept any objections, for I of course am not at all entitled to say I’d be right.

Yours
Bruno

 

[Della]

We read in Apoc.-Revelation that Satan and his Angels where thrown on earth. Since that happened millions of years before the first human was there; I often asked: “How about the idea, that indeed Lucifer’s legions where this whole bunch of dragons, as dinosaurs where all ugly and of horrifying kind, shape and size - and finally suddenly where wiped out of the surface of earth?”

Well, could it be – we cogitated (knowing it was a very queer idea) – what about if all these terrible and ugly and beastly dinosaurs where the devils as long, as… there was no hell made for them?

And then; hell is very far away of heaven and there is an unbridgeable gap between, as we know of Luke 16,28

Paleontologists wonder, why the saurian and similar disgusting “animals” of that time, disappeared sort of “at once”, after they had lived many millions of years. (By impact of a meterorite or whatever)

Might be it’s all a really silly thought - we too said; don’t let anybody hear us talking suchlike

But who knows… Might be they (the angels around Satan) had to suffer the penalty to be tumb animals before they finally landed as devils in hell. It anyhow all happened Millions of years before the first human was created. What’s Hundreds of Millions of years to God?! And here where no humans created yet to be on earth.

God created Angels a humans in His likeness. Lucifer’s legions however had lost the right of a physiognomy in God’s likeness. So, they must look ugly and when it comes to this - be ugly. God surely didn’t create anything ugly.

I simply refuse to believe, that God created such horrid creatures like dinosaurs. Therefore tend to believe, that this where the daemons cast on the earth. I know it’s a queer idea and even friends protest. But all God created, was of absolute beauty and harmony. Those disgusting creatures where not, and funnily enough they where all destroyed same time world-wide. This looks like the hand of God.

Well - we will know after our death. And I accept any objections, for I of course am not at all entitled to say I’d be right.

Yours
Bruno

No animal is “horrid” just because we don’t like it or understand it. There are thousands of living species that are repellent to human beings, such as the monitor lizard, but they are still part of God’s creation. We have to remember that God set up nature to run a certain way during this present time, which will last from the time the earth first came into existence until Jesus returns and God creates a new heaven and a new earth. Each creature fills a niche in its environment be they carnivorous, herbivores or omnivores.

 

[BrunoMaria]

Satan too was part of God’s creation - having been created as good Angel

 

[Della]

Satan too was part of God’s creation - having been created as good Angel

Certainly, but he had free will to make a choice to serve God or not. Humans have this, as well, but not the rest of creation. A lizard is merely a lizard. A mosquito is merely a mosquito. Both fill a niche in creation which God intended them to have. The same with dinosaurs. They were just animals doing what animals do.

 

[johndelacruz]

I simply refuse to believe, that God created such horrid creatures like dinosaurs.

well, I don’t know about that - there are some pretty “disgusting” looking creatures living right now - any number of insects are “horrid”, but God made them - take a good look at maggots next time you get a chance, ugh - and slimy bizarre “monstrous” beings are at the bottom of the dark oceans, and there are slugs, black widow spiders, giant anacondas - I was looking at vampire bats up close the other day at the zoo- if anything looks like a demon, those do, but they are just marvelously adapted flying rodents! Opposums are pretty creepy too. Dinosaurs seem like beautiful and awesome creatures compared to many other types of creatures that God in his exceeding Wisdom most certainly made - just because they were giant fearsome reptiles doesn’t mean that were “demonic” in any way - used by the devil, maybe, as I was saying at the beginning.

Another thought I had was that, as in the Gospels, when the demons were expelled from the demoniac, they had to go into something else, in that case, a herd of pigs. Perhaps when they were expelled from Heaven to Earth, they could not simply be on Earth “unclothed” so to speak, but had to “possess” creatures who were on Earth at the time, as humans were not there yet, they “possessed” some types of reptiles during the Age of Reptiles, who knows - maybe later after the dinos were wiped out, they possessed apes and primitive “humans” (Neanderthals) - or maybe those were just cruel mockeries of humans shaped by the devil for his own purposes, but they were wiped out too apparently…

 

[SighGuy]

It is an interesting thought but if you’ll allow me…

1. Dinosaurs perished 65 million years before the first humans arrived on Earth. It’d be a bit premature.
2. There are plenty of things more threatening on earth than the dinosaurs. Like, the ocean. Look at it this way: lion or dinosaur, either one will beat you in a fight unless you’re Samson. Rattle snakes, raging elephants, scorpions, diseases, famines, and, most problematically, humans.
   *In fact, I guarantee that humans would kill more humans on a given year than dinosaurs would if dinosaurs were around.

1. Mammals are evolved from the same stock as dinosaurs were. Dinosaurs, birds, and crocs all come from the archosaur group iirc, a group closely related to the lepidosaurs (lizards, turtles, snakes, etc…)
   Mammals evolved from therapsids. Presumably therapsids and archosaurs shared a common ancestor sometime not long before.
   It’s not a story about “reptiles versus the downtrodden mammals.” Reptiles simply were the dominant life form and mammals were new on the block. Heck, the “mammals” of that day in age were nothing like they are now. The most ancestral mammals are monotremes like the platypus-- a mammal that lays an egg via a cloaca-- very reptilian in design. Those mammals that existed before the platypus were even more reptilian. We’re not talking about fuzzy squirrels.

Given this, I must say no.

Also, I strictly warn anyone here from straying into crackpot scientific theories. The reason people do this is because they don’t understand the world of science. When all reputable scientists agree on something and one odd ball does not, suddenly some turn to him to support their own outside-the-norm ideas.

Follow the Church’s lead. The matters of the spirit the Church will handle. The matters of science, those who are best suited to it. Dinosaurs and people did not co-exist.

And I hesitate to suggest that dinosaurs were an “ugly” creation and therefore not created by God. Are crocodiles an ugly creation? And what isn’t? Is a disfigured person from birth? She’s far more hideous to gaze upon than a redrawn dinosaur… does she have no part in the Lord for her ugliness?