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CountrySteve
Guest
i am aware that the Blessed Mother was born without original sin but did she sin in her life for surly she must have cause ain’t it Jesus was the only man who never sinned
- Status
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Melchior_1
Guest
Mary, the Mother of our Lord, was saved from original sin. Without original sin, how could she have any actual sin? Why would she be assumed into heaven unless she had no sin?
Mary was, and is, sinless. Thanks to her Son, who redeemed her through the Cross (before the Cross even happened no less. He’s JESUS CHRIST, He can do that sort of thing).
Mary was, and is, sinless. Thanks to her Son, who redeemed her through the Cross (before the Cross even happened no less. He’s JESUS CHRIST, He can do that sort of thing).
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nordskoven
Guest
No sin against the Holy Spirit may be forgiven. The Virgin Mary is the Spouse of the Holy Spirit. As sharing spousal unity with divinity, as we will when Christ returns for His pure and spotless Bride, the Church, Mary cannot have sinned. As “Full of Grace” she cannot have sinned. This is Mary’s Immaculate Heart. Triumph in all hearts, Immaculate Heart of Mary.
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pataburd
Guest
C_S,
By singular grace (St. Augustine would say that it operated “preveniently”–in an anticipatory way) the Blessed Virgin Mary was preserved from Original Sin from the instant of her (Immaculate) Conception. She then attained to/perfectly corresponded with ever fuller measures of grace, through which God further kept her from all actual sin throughout her entire lifetime on earth.
Her sinless life is a thrilling testimony to the saving–or to use a term from my Pentecostal past, “keeping”–power of God: to the marvelous possibilities of grace reserved for a pure/mere creature. She is rightly our Mother and our Model,* par excellence*, for cooperating with the lavish, saving graces of God, as she herself acknowledges in the Magnificat: “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour” [my emphasis added].
Ave, Maria!
PAB
By singular grace (St. Augustine would say that it operated “preveniently”–in an anticipatory way) the Blessed Virgin Mary was preserved from Original Sin from the instant of her (Immaculate) Conception. She then attained to/perfectly corresponded with ever fuller measures of grace, through which God further kept her from all actual sin throughout her entire lifetime on earth.
Her sinless life is a thrilling testimony to the saving–or to use a term from my Pentecostal past, “keeping”–power of God: to the marvelous possibilities of grace reserved for a pure/mere creature. She is rightly our Mother and our Model,* par excellence*, for cooperating with the lavish, saving graces of God, as she herself acknowledges in the Magnificat: “And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour” [my emphasis added].
Ave, Maria!
PAB
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patrick457
Guest
If she didn’t have a fallen nature (read: original sin), how could she have sinned?
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puzzleannie
Guest
no it is infallibly defined dogma that she was conceived without original sin in the womb of her mother, was born without sin, and never sinned during her lifetime.
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TrueLight
Guest
Elijah was assumed into heaven and he did sin.
I’m not debating the sinlessness of Mary. It is dogma.
I’m just sayin’.
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Planty_Pall
Guest
Here are some prayers for the Feast of the Immaculate Conception in the Ordinary Form. It is called the “Opening Prayer” which would appear to correspond to the collect in the Extraordinary Form.
Don’t get me wrong, I think I should have believed in both doctrines long before the definitions came. If for no other reason, because of the Holy Rosary, but also because of the prayers of the Mass, which are even more dogmatic in the Extraordinary Form. The collect in the Old Mass goes a little further in explaining the theology behind Our Lady’s sinlessness:
PP
Here is the Prayer over the Gifts (Offertory?):
Here is from the Post-Communion Prayer:
It seems pretty clear that the Church is no way backing away from the traditional teaching of the sinlessness of our Lady. Indeed, the theological implications of this doctrine is foundational for the doctrine of her Holy Assumption into Heaven. I don’t personally think there is enough oral tradition alone to have definitively taught the doctrine of the Assumption. But once the Immaculate Conception was established it was inevitable. How could her body be corrupted who knew no sin?
Don’t get me wrong, I think I should have believed in both doctrines long before the definitions came. If for no other reason, because of the Holy Rosary, but also because of the prayers of the Mass, which are even more dogmatic in the Extraordinary Form. The collect in the Old Mass goes a little further in explaining the theology behind Our Lady’s sinlessness:
Note carefully that our Lady is still saved by God’s Son, without Whose merits she could not have been preserved from original and actual sin.
PP
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Scoobyshme
Guest
No, Mary never sinned.
Read the following article: catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp
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MiserereMeiDeus
Guest
Nope, our Blessed Mother never sinner, thanks to the grace of God and her Immaculate Conception.
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Ghosty
Guest
Adam and Eve didn’t have fallen natures either. Mary was capavle of sin, but she cooperated with Grace and never did.
Peace and God bless!
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CountrySteve
Guest
but look at 1 kings 8:46 and another verse in romans that said all have sinned
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TimothyH
Guest
Mary was an exception.
Most people who reference Paul in Romans 3 as having said “All have sinned” miss a few verses earlier where it indicates that he is actually quoting or paraphrasing the Psalms.
as it is written: "There is no one just, not one, there is no one who understands, there is no one who seeks God. All have gone astray; all alike are worthless; there is not one who does good, (there is not) even one. (Romans 3:10-12)
Paul says, “As it is written” and then the rest of what he says in the passage is a paraphrase of Psalm 14.
The LORD looks down from heaven upon the human race, To see if even one is wise, if even one seeks God. All have gone astray; all alike are perverse. Not one does what is right, not even one. Will these evildoers never learn? They devour my people as they devour bread; they do not call upon the LORD. They have good reason, then, to fear; God is with the company of the just. (Psalm 14:2-5)
Neither Paul, nor the salmist whom he quotes can be speaking about absolutely all people. While the Psalm says that all have sinned, it also speaks of the “Comany of the just”. The Psalm speaks of “Evildoers” but contrasts that with the “Company of the Just” Remember that Paul was a Pharisee and he knew Old Testament scripture cold. Paul knew exactly what he was quoting.
The Bible describes many people who “Walked with the Lord”, “Were righteous in God’s sight” and who “Obeyed all the commandments of the Lord”. Job was one. John the Baptists parents were described this way. In fact, John the Baptist was described as being “Full of the holy spirit from the time of his birth.” If he was full of the Holy Spirit, he must have been empty of everything else, including pride, envy, lust, etc.
There are plenty of people who are described as righteous and obedient, if not actually sinless. Given the actual words in the Bible, I don’t see how it is so far off base to think that it is impossible for Mary to be sinless.
-Tim-
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JonathonofOhio
Guest
When man and woman were created, they were created to be virgins and without sin. But God in His wisdom, perceiving the fall of man, created man and woman that they might ‘go forth and multiply’. God can create many men and women without the assistance of mankind, but He made it so that a man and woman join and become one flesh.
Mary was a virgin and never joined with any man but she bore a child, Jesus the Christ. And Jesus speaks of the merits of virginity and celibacy in Matthew 19. He did not impose on us any law, because he says “all men cannot receive this saying”, but he mentions that those who are celibate do it for the Kingdom of Heaven.
Virginity is the way of the angels, and in the life to come we will be as the angels who do not marry (Matthew 22:30). But is that saying marriage is a bad thing? No, because the Lord blessed marriage with his presence at the wedding, and marriage is an honorable virtue (Hebrews 13:4), but virginity is the better virtue.
Mary being forever a virgin then possesses the highest of virtues, and not by her own doing but by the grace of God. Elijah possessed such a virtue, and God gave him great power even over kings, and he was taken up to heaven body and soul (2 Kings 2:11), and his spiritual son, Elisha was also a virgin and received from God such great power that even his bones could raise the dead (2 Kings 13:20-21). The three youths in Daniel who were also virgins (Daniel 3:20) were not burned up in the fire, and Daniel himself being a virgin was not able to be eaten by the wild beast.
And then there is of course Jesus The Christ, who is greater than all the angels, being made in the image of man, born of a virgin, who is the glory of virginity, and is the true and perfect virgin.
So there should be no accusations towards Mary in our hearts. For if God, who is the author of life, did all these things, then surely he preserved Mary and she did not sin.
If you’d like to get a greater understand of Mary and what role she has in Christianity, I invite you to watch this video that someone posted on YouTube that is probably one of the best explanations I have ever seen: youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA
Mary was a virgin and never joined with any man but she bore a child, Jesus the Christ. And Jesus speaks of the merits of virginity and celibacy in Matthew 19. He did not impose on us any law, because he says “all men cannot receive this saying”, but he mentions that those who are celibate do it for the Kingdom of Heaven.
Virginity is the way of the angels, and in the life to come we will be as the angels who do not marry (Matthew 22:30). But is that saying marriage is a bad thing? No, because the Lord blessed marriage with his presence at the wedding, and marriage is an honorable virtue (Hebrews 13:4), but virginity is the better virtue.
Mary being forever a virgin then possesses the highest of virtues, and not by her own doing but by the grace of God. Elijah possessed such a virtue, and God gave him great power even over kings, and he was taken up to heaven body and soul (2 Kings 2:11), and his spiritual son, Elisha was also a virgin and received from God such great power that even his bones could raise the dead (2 Kings 13:20-21). The three youths in Daniel who were also virgins (Daniel 3:20) were not burned up in the fire, and Daniel himself being a virgin was not able to be eaten by the wild beast.
And then there is of course Jesus The Christ, who is greater than all the angels, being made in the image of man, born of a virgin, who is the glory of virginity, and is the true and perfect virgin.
So there should be no accusations towards Mary in our hearts. For if God, who is the author of life, did all these things, then surely he preserved Mary and she did not sin.
If you’d like to get a greater understand of Mary and what role she has in Christianity, I invite you to watch this video that someone posted on YouTube that is probably one of the best explanations I have ever seen: youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA
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TimothyH
Guest
I like the way you speak of the presence of virtue rather than the absence of sin. One could say that Mary posessed the fullness of virtue just as easily as one could say that she was absent sin.
If the video is half as good as this post, I’m sure I’ll enjoy it. Well done.
-Tim-
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jsaldar
Guest
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CountrySteve
Guest
thanks for posting i loved the video it answered alot of questions i defiantly need to show that video to my protestant kin
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JonathonofOhio
Guest
Thank you for the kind words. I felt that my post complimented your post well, so rather than just repeat what you said, I figured I’d offer more insight by adding to what was already shared.
I hope you enjoyed the video; I don’t usually share videos, but this one is definitely worth sharing. Someone had sent me that awhile back when it had few views, and I have watched it over a dozen times! Many of the things that video points out would have probably taken me years to see, if I would have ever seen them at all. Very well made, IMO.
I hope you enjoyed the video; I don’t usually share videos, but this one is definitely worth sharing. Someone had sent me that awhile back when it had few views, and I have watched it over a dozen times! Many of the things that video points out would have probably taken me years to see, if I would have ever seen them at all. Very well made, IMO.
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JonathonofOhio
Guest
You are welcome. I hope that it will help them as it helped you.
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Scoobyshme
Guest
If you believe that the “all have sinned” is absolute, then all we need do is find one exception to dispute the “absoluteness” of the claim.
Here are some examples that dispute the “absoluteness” of the “all have sinned” claim.
- Jesus. He was like us in all things BUT sin.
- Children before the age of reason. The very definition of sin precludes children before the age of reason (and infants) of sinning.
- Mentally handicapped. Same reason as 2. Sin is saying, “No!” to God. If a person doesn’t have the capacity to understand what God asks, then they don’t have the capacity to say, “No!” to Him.
- Status