Did the Buddha talk about God?

[Charlemagne_II]

I am looking for any Buddhist scholar here to talk about God and the Buddha. Specifically, I am looking for direct quotes from the Buddha about God in book, chapter, and verse.

I am not looking for add-on views about the god(s) that came after the Buddha lived and are now incorporated into the various sects of Buddhism…

Thanks!

 

[Charlemagne_II]

This is from the 1910 CatholicEncyclopedia:

In Buddha’s system, the all-god Brahma was entirely ignored. Buddha put abstruse speculation in the background, and, while not ignoring the value of right knowledge, insisted on the saving part of the will as the one thing needful. To obtain deliverance from birth, all forms of desire must be absolutely quenched, not only very wicked craving, but also the desire of such pleasures and comforts as are deemed innocent and lawful, the desire even to preserve one’s conscious existence. It was through this extinction of every desire that cessation of misery was to be obtained. This state of absence of desire and pain was known as Nirvana (Nibbana). This word was not coined by Buddha, but in his teaching, it assumed a new shade of meaning. Nirvana means primarily a “blowing out”, and hence the extinction of the fire of desire, ill-will, delusion, of all, in short, that binds the individual to rebirth and misery. It was in the living Buddhist saint a state of calm repose, of indifference to life and death, to pleasure and pain, a state of imperturbable tranquility, where the sense of freedom from the bonds of rebirth caused the discomforts as well as the joys of life to sink into insignificance. But it was not till after death that Nirvana was realized in its completeness. Some scholars have so thought. And, indeed, if the psychological speculations found in the sacred books are part of Buddha’s personal teaching, it is hard to see how he could have held anything else as the final end of man. But logical consistency is not to be looked for in an Indian mystic. If we may trust the sacred books, he expressly refused on several occasions to pronounce either on the existence or the non-existence of those who had entered into Nirvana, on the ground that it was irrelevant, not conducive to peace and enlightenment. His intimate disciples held the same view. A monk who interpreted Nirvana to mean annihilation was taken to task by an older monk, and convinced that he had no right to hold such an opinion, since the subject was wrapped in impenetrable mystery. The learned nun Khema gave a similar answer to the King of Kosala, who asked if the deceased Buddha was still in existence. Whether the Perfect One exists after death, whether he does not exist after death, whether he exists and at the same time does not exist after death, whether he neither exists nor does not exist after death, has not been revealed by Buddha. Since, then, the nature of Nirvana was too mysterious to be grasped by the Hindu mind, too subtle to be expressed in terms either of existence or of non-existence, it would be idle to attempt a positive solution of the question. It suffices to know that it meant a state of unconscious repose, an eternal sleep which knew no awakening. In this respect it was practically one with the ideal of the pantheistic Brahmin.

In the Buddhist conception of Nirvana no account was taken of the all-god Brahma. And as prayers and offerings to the traditional gods were held to be of no avail for the attainment of this negative state of bliss, Buddha, with greater consistency than was shown in pantheistic Brahminism, rejected both the Vedas and the Vedic rites. It was this attitude which stamped Buddhism as a heresy. For this reason, too, Buddha has been set down by some as an atheist. Buddha, however, was not an atheist in the sense that he denied the existence of the gods. To him the gods were living realities. In his alleged sayings, as in the Buddhist scriptures generally, the gods are often mentioned, and always with respect. But like the pantheistic Brahmin, Buddha did not acknowledge his dependence on them. They were like men, subject to decay and rebirth. The god of today might be reborn in the future in some inferior condition, while a man of great virtue might succeed in raising himself in his next birth to the rank of a god in heaven. The very gods, then, no less than men, had need of that perfect wisdom that leads to Nirvana, and hence it was idle to pray or sacrifice to them in the hope of obtaining the boon which they themselves did not possess. They were inferior to Buddha, since he had already attained to Nirvana. In like manner, they who followed Buddha’s footsteps had no need of worshipping the gods by prayers and offerings. Worship of the gods was tolerated, however, in the Buddhist layman who still clung to the delusion of individual existence, and preferred the household to the homeless state. Moreover, Buddha’s system conveniently provided for those who accepted in theory the teaching that Nirvana alone was the true end of man but who still lacked the courage to quench all desires. The various heavens of Brahminic theology, with their positive, even sensual, delights were retained as the reward of virtuous souls not yet ripe for Nirvana. To aspire after such rewards was permitted to the lukewarm monk; it was commended to the layman. Hence the frequent reference, even in the earliest Buddhist writings to heaven and its positive delights as an encouragement to right conduct. Sufficient prominence is not generally given to this more popular side of Buddha’s teaching, without which his followers would have been limited to an insignificant and short-lived band of heroic souls. It was this element, so prominent in the inscriptions of Asoka, that tempered the severity of Buddha’s doctrine of Nirvana and made his system acceptable to the masses.

 

[billcu1]

I am looking for any Buddhist scholar here to talk about God and the Buddha. Specifically, I am looking for direct quotes from the Buddha about God in book, chapter, and verse.

I am not looking for add-on views about the god(s) that came after the Buddha lived and are now incorporated into the various sects of Buddhism…

Thanks!

I don’t know if the church is a good source to go to about buddhism. There will be misunderstandings like anyone outside the church has misunderstandings about it.
That being said buddhism is considered non-theistic. Not atheistic, non-theistic. In other words the idea of a supreme creator simply doesn’t come up. Not denied, not affirmed.
The buddha taught of the 4 forms of suffering and the 12 links of interdependant origination. I would recommend it as an alternative view to any openminded seeking catholic. In addition to catholic I sometimes call myself a Tibetan buddhist. But so much of what buddhism is today was added by other budhist scholars that Shakyamuni or the buddha said would come. Nagarjuna is one of my favorites. All suffering is self induced he taught which to me does not conflict in anyway with catholicism. Catholicism teaches though you have to suffer. Why even talk about suffering if you can’t prevent it. It’s our misguided thoughts and thinking processes that cause suffering. You can get deep with a teacher of buddhism to overcome this. Or let the virgin and her son work with grace and sanctifying grace to help you. I think that’s simpler.

accesstoinsight.org/theravada.html

 

[rossum]

I am looking for any Buddhist scholar here to talk about God and the Buddha. Specifically, I am looking for direct quotes from the Buddha about God in book, chapter, and verse.

I am not looking for add-on views about the god(s) that came after the Buddha lived and are now incorporated into the various sects of Buddhism.

This is an extract from the Brahmajala sutta. I have used ellipses since the sutta is one of the longer ones:

[The Buddha said] "… And then, monks, that being who first arose there thinks: ‘I am the Brahma, the great Brahma, the conqueror, the unconquered, the all-seeing, the subjector of all to his wishes, the omnipotent, the maker, the creator, the supreme, the controller, the one confirmed in the practice of jhana, and father to all that have been and shall be. I have created these other beings.’ " (emphases added)

– Digha Nikaya 1, Brahmajala sutta 42, (Wrong View #5)

I have indicated the properties which show that the Buddha is talking about the Abrahamic God. This is taken from the Pali Canon, which is the earliest complete canon we have.

In Buddhism, all gods are living beings who need to follow the path to nirvana. They are all subject to the three marks of change, suffering and soullessness. While the gods may help us on out path, and vice versa, they cannot walk our path for us. At best a god can grant us a temporary time on one of the heavens.

Gods are not important in Buddhism and can safely be ignored. In Buddhist countries, people pray to gods for material things: money, a child, health etc. The gods are part of the material world of samsara, they have not attained nirvana.

rossum

 

[Charlemagne_II]

rossum

Gods are not important in Buddhism and can safely be ignored. In Buddhist countries, people pray to gods for material things: money, a child, health etc. The gods are part of the material world of samsara, they have not attained nirvana.

So I take it they have no status comparable to the Christian God, who cannot safely be ignored.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

bill

…buddhism is considered non-theistic. Not atheistic, non-theistic. In other words the idea of a supreme creator simply doesn’t come up. Not denied, not affirmed.

Luke 11:23 “Those who are not with me are against me.”

I could never understand those who say that non-theistic and atheistic are not the same.

 

[rossum]

bill

…buddhism is considered non-theistic. Not atheistic, non-theistic. In other words the idea of a supreme creator simply doesn’t come up. Not denied, not affirmed.

Luke 11:23 “Those who are not with me are against me.”

I could never understand those who say that non-theistic and atheistic are not the same.

“He who is not against us is for us.” Mark 9:40



rossum

 

[rossum]

So I take it they have no status comparable to the Christian God, who cannot safely be ignored.

Does the Bible mention nirvana? Does it tell us how better to travel our path to nirvana? Since the aim of a Buddhist is to follow his or her path to nirvana, then anything that does not help us along that path can be ignored.

Being a god, even a very powerful one, has very little to do with it.

It is said that soon after his enlightenment the Buddha passed a man on the road who was struck by the Buddha’s extraordinary radiance and peaceful presence. The man stopped and asked,

“My friend, what are you? Are you a celestial being or a god?”

“No,” said the Buddha.

“Well, then, are you some kind of magician or wizard?”

Again the Buddha answered, “No.”

“Are you a man?”

“No.”

“Well, my friend, then what are you?”

The Buddha replied, “I am awake.”

rossum

 

[Charlemagne_II]

ross**um

“He who is not against us is for us.” Mark 9:40**

You conveniently forgot the verse that goes with this?

1. Jesus replied, “Do not prevent him. There is no one who performs a mighty deed in my name who can at the same time speak ill of me. 40 For whoever is not against us is for us."

Gives a contrary impression now, doesn’t it? Play nice.

 

[Charlemagne_II]

rossum
**
The Buddha replied, “I am awake.”**

Anyone can be awake. Only one can be God.

God does not offer us nirvana. That is desire for annihilation … not conscious peace.

 

[rossum]

The Buddha replied, "I am awake."

Anyone can be awake. Only one can be God.

The story is a Sanskrit pun. The word root for “awake” is "budh, which is also the root for “Buddha”. In this case, awake means enlightened.

The Abrahamic God is not awake. His actions show that He is not, so He still has to reach enlightenment.

Count up how many living beings the Abrahamic God kills. Now count up how many living beings the Buddha kills. One is enlightened, the other is not.

God does not offer us nirvana. That is desire for annihilation … not conscious peace.

Nirvana is not annihilation. That is a common error. Remember that the Buddha was living in the world for 45 years after he attained nirvana; that was definitely not annihilation.

rossum

 

[Charlemagne_II]

rossum

The Abrahamic God is not awake. His actions show that He is not, so He still has to reach enlightenment.

The Abrahamic God is certainly awake. He even speaks to his people.

Who is the Buddha’s God, and what did he say to his people?

Ultimate nirvana is unconsciousness, which is what I meant by annihilation. The Buddha cannot describe it as a state because it is absolute sleep, as opposed to wakefulness.

 

[Ion]

The story is a Sanskrit pun. The word root for “awake” is "budh", which is also the root for “Buddha”. In this case, awake means enlightened.

The Abrahamic God is not awake. His actions show that He is not, so He still has to reach enlightenment.

Count up how many living beings the Abrahamic God kills. Now count up how many living beings the Buddha kills. One is enlightened, the other is not.

Nirvana is not annihilation. That is a common error. Remember that the Buddha was living in the world for 45 years after he attained nirvana; that was definitely not annihilation.

rossum

Is is true that Buddha died because he ate a too large steak for his age?

 

[rossum]

The Abrahamic God is certainly awake. He even speaks to his people.

He is not enlightened.

Who is the Buddha’s God, and what did he say to his people?

What do you mean by this? Buddhism is not monotheistic, there are tens of thousands of gods:

Sakra, the ruler of the celestials, with twenty thousand gods, his followers, such as the god Chandra (the Moon), the god Surya (the Sun), the god Samantagandha (the Wind), the god Ratnaprabha, the god Avabhasaprabha, and others; further, the four great rulers of the cardinal points with thirty thousand gods in their train, viz. the great ruler Virudhaka, the great ruler Virupaksha, the great ruler Dhritarashtra, and the great ruler Vaisravana; the god Ishvara and the god Maheshvara, each followed by thirty thousand gods; further, Brahma Sahdmpati and his twelve thousand followers, the Brahmakayika gods, amongst whom Brahma Sikhin and Brahma Gyotishprabha, with the other twelve thousand Brahmakayika gods.

– Saddharmapundarika sutra, Chapter 1
The Buddha is recorded as having ascended into one of the heavens and preached to the gods there.

Ultimate nirvana is unconsciousness, which is what I meant by annihilation.

All descriptions of nirvana fall short. Perhaps the closest is by Vimalakirti:

Then the Bodhisattva Manjushri said to Vimalakirti, “We have all given our teachings, noble sir. Now, may you elucidate the teaching of the the entrance into the principle of nonduality.”

Thereupon Vimalakirti kept his silence, saying nothing at all.

The Bodhisattva Manjushri applauded Vimalakirti: “Excellent! Excellent, noble sir! This is indeed the entrance into the nonduality of the Bodhisattvas.”

– Vimalakirtinirdesa sutra, Chapter Nine

The Buddha cannot describe it as a state because it is absolute sleep, as opposed to wakefulness.

You need to read more Buddhist texts:

[The Buddha said:] “There is, monks, an unborn, an unbecome, an unmade, an unconditioned. If there were not that unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, no escape would be possible from the born, become, made, conditioned. But precisely because there is an unborn, unbecome, unmade, unconditioned, escape from the born, become, made, conditioned is possible.”

– Udana 8.3

rossum

 

[rossum]

Is is true that Buddha died because he ate a too large steak for his age?

He died of food poisoning after a meal of either pork or mushrooms.

rossum

 

[Blinky]

Does the Bible mention nirvana? Does it tell us how better to travel our path to nirvana? Since the aim of a Buddhist is to follow his or her path to nirvana, then anything that does not help us along that path can be ignored.

**Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." **John 14:6

 

[Ion]

He died of food poisoning after a meal of either pork or mushrooms.

rossum

This is what I have just read: budsas.org/ebud/ebdha192.htm

“Dr Mettanando Bhikkhu was a physician before entering the monkhood. He is currently based at Wat Raja Orasaram, Thailand”

Some time ago I’v read the same thing from another source, that Buddha died because he ate too much for his age, and I was not sure about the source. It looks like there are different opinions, but the cause was food anyway.
Arent there little statues with Buddha as an obese person? Are they only symbolic, and he was actualy slim?

 

[rossum]

**Jesus said to him, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." **John 14:6

I have one of those as well:

Thus have I heard.

At one time the Blessed One was living in the Kurus, at Kammasadamma, a market-town of the Kuru people.

Then the Blessed One addressed the bhikkhus as follows: “This is the only way, O bhikkhus, for the purification of beings, for the overcoming of sorrow and lamentation, for the destruction of suffering and grief, for reaching the right path, for the attainment of Nibbana, namely, the Four Arousings of Mindfulness.” (emphasis added)

– Majjhima Nikaya 10, Satipatthana sutta

I suspect that there are similar quotes from the scriptures of many other religions as well.

rossum

 

[Charlemagne_II]

rossum

What do you mean by this? Buddhism is not monotheistic, there are tens of thousands of gods:

You cannot worship ten thousand gods. As you said earlier, they are not even relevant, so how can they be awake? You said: “Gods are not important in Buddhism and can safely be ignored.” Then they are certainly not gods in the Judeo-Christian sense. They are not Supreme Beings. If you can safely ignore them, by all means do! But that throws whatever salvation Buddhists believe in back on their own willingness to say they can do it by themselves, and they don’t need God at all.

You also said: “The Buddha is recorded as having ascended into one of the heavens and preached to the gods there.” What kind of idiocy is this? We do not imagine St. Peter ascending to heaven in order to preach to Jesus.

 

[rossum]

Arent there little statues with Buddha as an obese person? Are they only symbolic, and he was actualy slim?

Before his enlightenment, Gautama tried extreme asceticism:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

He found that asceticism did not work, so he gave it up before his enlightenment.

The “Fat Buddha”, (aka Hotei or Budai), is a Chinese version of the Maitreya Buddha, the next Buddha to appear on earth. He looks very different:



rossum