Did the Cross make me Flawless?

[stl6string]

I have a Protestant friend who posted lyrics from a favorite song of her’s that include the line, “The cross has made you flawless.”

When I asked her if the Crucifixion of Christ really made me flawless, she told me that, “Because of Jesus went to the cross we are forgiven from past and future sins. We have been cleansed. All we had/have to do is accept this gift. FLAWLESS.”

This seems like a blank check to sin to me. If all my future sins are already forgiven, what’s to stop me from sinning? So I asked her if this is a blank check to sin freely?

She then told me, “You see, with acceptance of forgiveness you have to acknowledge that you have done wrong and repent. With repentance, you are turning away from acknowledged sin. If you are really sorry, you won’t do it again. And when we fail, we keep trying all because of the love of Christ and he keeps of forgiving (even before we do it).”

Being new to the Catholic faith, I am not sure how to discuss this with her further. But, for some reason the theology behind her argument doesn’t seem correct.

Has Christ’s Crucifixion on the cross forgiven me for future sins even before I commit those sins? If so why am I going to confession, if they have already been forgiven?

 

[Sirach2]

Has Christ’s Crucifixion on the cross forgiven me for future sins even before I commit those sins? If so why am I going to confession, if they have already been forgiven?

This is the latest theology circulating among protestant evangelists, notably Joseph Prince, who teaches this continually. I think you already know the answer - it is a false teaching that will lead you into error. The theory is that since Christ died on the cross, His blood redeemed and sanctified us once and for all, and He “remembers our sins no more - they are all forgiven - past, present and future.”

Yes, of course you need to confess all serious sins committed since Baptism. It is a slippery slope to believe that we can sin, but everything is ok due to Christ’s blood shed on Cross. Reject that demonic teaching!

 

[stl6string]

I know this teaching couldn’t be correct. I just don’t know enough to be able to refute the claim without being argumentative or for that matter incorrect.

 

[Sirach2]

I know this teaching couldn’t be correct. I just don’t know enough to be able to refute the claim without being argumentative or for that matter incorrect.

These people will cleverly point to scripture after scripture and make it sound true, which makes it even more insidious and evil. Maybe this one statement will be helpful, since it was declared in the Council of Trent when this Council convened to refute the errors of Luther and others. It is Canon VI on Justification.
If anyone says that nothing besides faith is commanded in the gospel;
that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor prohibited, but free;

or that the ten commandments nowise appertain to Christians; (Joseph Prince teaches that we are not bound, since we are not under the Law, but under grace)

that the man who is justified is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if the gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments;

that Christ Jesus was given of God to man, as a Redeemer in whom to trust, and not also as a legislator whom to obey,

Let him be anathema!

 

[stl6string]

These people will cleverly point to scripture after scripture and make it sound true, which makes it even more insidious and evil. Maybe this one statement will be helpful, since it was declared in the Council of Trent when this Council convened to refute the errors of Luther and others. It is Canon VI on Justification.
If anyone says that nothing besides faith is commanded in the gospel;
that other things are indifferent, neither commanded nor prohibited, but free;

or that the ten commandments nowise appertain to Christians; (Joseph Prince teaches that we are not bound, since we are not under the Law, but under grace)

that the man who is justified is not bound to observe the commandments of God and of the Church, but only to believe; as if the gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life, without the condition of observing the commandments;

that Christ Jesus was given of God to man, as a Redeemer in whom to trust, and not also as a legislator whom to obey,

Let him be anathema!

I’m not quite sure I can point her to the Council of Trent, to refute the fact that she believes all her future sins have already been forgiven. I guess it’s time from me to take a theology class…

 

[Sirach2]

I’m not quite sure I can point her to the Council of Trent, to refute the fact that she believes all her future sins have already been forgiven. I guess it’s time from me to take a theology class…

If she’s not Catholic, this may not be helpful at all, since the only authority Protestants recognize is their private interpretation of scripture. You know … sola scriptura! If it’s not written in the bible, it isn’t valid. Problem is, that they have no authority to interpret the sacred writings, and you’ll get umpteen differing versions of the same verse.

Catholics believe not only in the scriptures, but also in Sacred Tradition and Magisterial teachings, and non-C’s only have the first of these three.

 

[AloysiusBologna]

If she’s not Catholic, this may not be helpful at all, since the only authority Protestants recognize is their private interpretation of scripture. You know … sola scriptura! If it’s not written in the bible, it isn’t valid. Problem is, that they have no authority to interpret the sacred writings, and you’ll get umpteen differing versions of the same verse.

Catholics believe not only in the scriptures, but also in Sacred Tradition and Magisterial teachings, and non-C’s only have the first of these three.

Where is Sirach’s Wisdom in many of the “New” Bibles?!..it has been said he who controls the present controls the past…. I wonder what Tobit would say today?!..Oh well perhaps some were given more straw for the wind rather than Joy for the Love…

 

[stl6string]

So there is no real counter argument to the Protestant contention that all my future sins have already been forgiven except in the books of the OT that Protestants don’t recognize?

 

[powerofk]

Part of the problem with Protestantism, especially Evangelical Protestantism, is oversimplification. Does the cross have the power to make us flawless? Absolutely. That’s the entire point of the cross - only Jesus, being fully man and fully divine could reconcile us to the Father. And yes, following Him is key to our salvation - salvation is only through Him. But, unlike Protestants, we Catholics believe that deciding to follow Jesus isn’t just a one-time event - it’s a continual lifetime event. It’s an event that starts at baptism, but is reaffirmed (or denied) with each decision we make, every day. With each and every decision, we either pick up the cross or we deny the cross. Every time we deny the cross, we sin. If the sin is grave, deliberate, and with full knowledge, we deny the cross three times (completely). For such a complete denial, we need a complete reconcilation to have the grace to follow Jesus again, just as Peter needed to reaffirm his love for Jesus three times after Peter had denied even knowing Jesus three times.

 

[Sirach2]

Where is Sirach’s Wisdom in many of the “New” Bibles?!..it has been said he who controls the present controls the past…. I wonder what Tobit would say today?!..Oh well perhaps some were given more straw for the wind rather than Joy for the Love…

I don’t have a clue what you are trying to say.

Maybe you misunderstood my words : " …they have no authority to interpret the sacred writings, and you’ll get umpteen differing versions of the same verse."

I did not mean umpteen different** bibles**, but umpteen different **interpretations **of a single scripture verse. No Authority can tell them what is the true understanding of a verse, since they have already made up their minds.

 

[spedteacherita]

**Part of the problem with Protestantism, especially Evangelical Protestantism, is oversimplification. Does the cross have the power to make us flawless? Absolutely. That’s the entire point of the cross - only Jesus, being fully man and fully divine could reconcile us to the Father. And yes, following Him is key to our salvation - salvation is only through Him. But, unlike Protestants, we Catholics believe that deciding to follow Jesus isn’t just a one-time event - it’s a continual lifetime event. It’s an event that starts at baptism, but is reaffirmed (or denied) with each decision we make, every day. **With each and every decision, we either pick up the cross or we deny the cross. Every time we deny the cross, we sin. If the sin is grave, deliberate, and with full knowledge, we deny the cross three times (completely). For such a complete denial, we need a complete reconcilation to have the grace to follow Jesus again, just as Peter needed to reaffirm his love for Jesus three times after Peter had denied even knowing Jesus three times.

The bolded part is what I’ve understood from the time I was baptized (as an adult) in the LCMS. We are sinful and will need to be contrite and repent of the sins we do commit.

 

[Sirach2]

The bolded part is what I’ve understood from the time I was baptized (as an adult) in the LCMS. We are sinful and will need to be contrite and repent of the sins we do commit.

I meant no affronts to our non-C brothers who believe as we do. It was to the radical preachers heard on TV these days with bizarre messages like the OP mentioned. It is mind-boggling how many people buy into these false teachings, and it is very disturbing. .

 

[Richard_White]

Through His Passion and Death on the Cross, Jesus atoned for and expiated all of the sins of the world: past, present, and future. As such, He redeemed our sinful humanity.

However, turning to Jesus and repenting of our sins is NOT enough to ensure that we will be saved. We must do this and then continually partake of the Sacrament’s, which are dispensers of God’s grace, engage in prayer, good works, and remain within the bosom of the Catholic Church, doing everything that Our Lord has commanded. As such, we will, for lack of a better phrase, “cash in” on the salvation that Jesus has won for us and He will then perfect our souls for the Beatific Vision of God Thrice Holy in Heaven.

On earth, however, we are never flawless. The only truly perfect one is God.

May God bless you all abundantly and forever!

 

[MarcoPolo]

So there is no real counter argument to the Protestant contention that all my future sins have already been forgiven except in the books of the OT that Protestants don’t recognize?

I could probably write on and on with many passages against this teaching, which is really the theory of “imputed righteousness.” But to keep it focused, here’s one. Hebrews 12:7-10 talks about the Father disciplining His children so that they might be made holy. Why would He have to do this if they were already and forever “flawless”? Answer, because the cross doesn’t make a person flawless instantly. By the time one journey’s to heaven, yes, we are sanctified by His blood–so if you wanted to find some common ground, you can agree that all justification and sanctification are accomplished by Christ. But there’s no passage that says once we enter Christ’s body that we either a) can never leave, or b) don’t sin anymore.

 

[TimothyH]

“Flawless” is the result of a theology without purgatory.

-Tim-

 

[Church_Militant]

Your friend appears to be a fan of Mercy Me and the song is “Flawless”. You might point out to her that MM’s lyrics pretty well describe
Biblical and Jewish Traditional Beliefs About Purgatory

There are several problems with your friend’s belief.

1. She believes OSAS which can be found refuted at Once Saved, Always Saved?

(Added link to Bible Christian Society where free MP3 download is available.)

1. She believes that "getting saved is a one time event which I refute in
   Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?
2. Ask her if she has to confess any sins that she commits or if she even sins anymore.
   Catholic Confession
   Scriptures About Penance

Ask her why Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ says the following in** Revelation 3:*****[5] He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

You might also note to her that scripture says that for one to be saved one’s name must be found in the book of life (Revelation 20:15) and yet Our Lord says that He will blot some names out…therefore one can indeed lose their salvation.

---

Assurance of Salvation?
Assurance of Salvation in a Pinch

 

[Sirach2]

C.M., your link to OSAS is not working correctly. You might need to update it.

 

[Sirach2]

Oh My Dear Lord, help us!!! :crying:
I just watched Joseph Prince on TV, and he gave people this word from John 10:28,
“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.” You can never lose your salvation once you give yourself to Jesus, and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
Once saved, always saved.

And people believe him!