Did the devil make us do it?

[Glo918]

Satan is not omnipotent. So he cannot be responsible for all the horrible things people think and do.

But does the Church believe he has other spirits that work for him that do tempt us ordinary people - not important enough to get Satan’s attention?

Sometimes it does feel like the devil tempts us to do/be like we ordinarily are not or do not want to be.

Just wondering what Church’s position is on this. Is there an army of Satan soldiers trying to defeat us all?

 

[Ben_F]

The Devil is not omnipitant. He does have power though. He can tempt. He tempted even Jesus. Whether he succeeds or not depends on us. Nothing bad ever comes from God. He allows evil to exist, because He will never take away our free will. It´s the only way we can love. His greatest desire, even unto death is that we give Him the only thing He doesn´t have. Our Love. That´s why He created us. The evil that exists, He turns into good. He hardened Pharoh´s heart in order to show his glory, by freeing the Hebrews. His strength is in weakness. He lifts up the weak, and brings down the haughty. God bless: Thumbsup:: Thumbsup:: Thumbsup:

 

[St_Francis]

Yes.

Devils are angels who rejected God, and they can influence our imaginations just as good angels, esp our guardian angels, can.

 

[St_Francis]

I should add that the Church teaches that temptation has three sources: the devil, the world, and our own selves. So tye devil doesn’t necessarily make us do it. Soketimes we do evil all on our own.

Any time we face temptation, we can ask God for help to resist that temptation, no matter what its source, and God will help strengthen us through grace.

 

[glendab]

Yes. There ARE many demons in the world and we pray the prayer of St. Michael the Archangel against them all the time.

But to say that the devil made you do something would be admitting or accepting possession by him. No one in his or her right mind would want that, so the only way the devil can be blamed for ones actions is to be possessed either partially or perfectly. Take responsibility for yourself and grow up. It is never to late to grow up. But usually by the time one tries, one is ready for one’s second childhood.

Glenda

 

[mikekle]

Satan is not omnipotent. So he cannot be responsible for all the horrible things people think and do.

But does the Church believe he has other spirits that work for him that do tempt us ordinary people - not important enough to get Satan’s attention?

Sometimes it does feel like the devil tempts us to do/be like we ordinarily are not or do not want to be.

Just wondering what Church’s position is on this. Is there an army of Satan soldiers trying to defeat us all?

Satan has 1/3 of the angels on his side, they are now demons, I dont think anyone knows the exact number of demons though, as the bible says the number of angels is ‘innumerable’, or so many, it is impossible to count them, being that Satan took 1/3 of them, its safe to say there is ALOT of demons!

I think its also important to remember Satan can only be in one place at one time, unlike God, he cannot be in more than 1 place at 1 time, and since he is in Hell, Im not sure how he can also be in our world, tempting us as well. I dont think its possible to come and go from hell either.

So, either Satan has more abilities than we think or the bible is wrong about him. The bible refers to Satan/ demons as the ‘enemy’ many times, but at the same time, God allows this enemy MANY abilities…??

I can only assume, since Satan did what he did against God, and as a result, he was cast out of Heaven BUT he also retained most if not all of his powers, he is still basically immortal, in that he does not really have a lifespan or age in anyway, he controls (probably millions or more) demons, so he has his own army that obey him, he has the ability influence and interact with mankind, all this yet he is supposed to be in Hell, being punished and tormented for what he did…So, if this was the result of Satans rebellion, I can only assume any human that commits the same sin as Satan would also receive the same kind of treatment…right? If not, why? God says humans are more important to him than the angels, this includes satan/ demons too, so should we actually expect more abilities than Satan got?

Im sorry to say, but much of what is said about Satan makes little sense to me

 

[Charlemagne_III]

Satan cannot make us do anything. If he could, free will would be destroyed, and we know that can’t be. If there is anything that is not reversible in God’s creation, it is human free will.

 

[oldcelt]

Satan has 1/3 of the angels on his side, they are now demons, I dont think anyone knows the exact number of demons though, as the bible says the number of angels is ‘innumerable’, or so many, it is impossible to count them, being that Satan took 1/3 of them, its safe to say there is ALOT of demons!

I think its also important to remember Satan can only be in one place at one time, unlike God, he cannot be in more than 1 place at 1 time, and since he is in Hell, Im not sure how he can also be in our world, tempting us as well. I dont think its possible to come and go from hell either.

So, either Satan has more abilities than we think or the bible is wrong about him. The bible refers to Satan/ demons as the ‘enemy’ many times, but at the same time, God allows this enemy MANY abilities…??

I can only assume, since Satan did what he did against God, and as a result, he was cast out of Heaven BUT he also retained most if not all of his powers, he is still basically immortal, in that he does not really have a lifespan or age in anyway, he controls (probably millions or more) demons, so he has his own army that obey him, he has the ability influence and interact with mankind, all this yet he is supposed to be in Hell, being punished and tormented for what he did…So, if this was the result of Satans rebellion, I can only assume any human that commits the same sin as Satan would also receive the same kind of treatment…right? If not, why? God says humans are more important to him than the angels, this includes satan/ demons too, so should we actually expect more abilities than Satan got?

Im sorry to say, but much of what is said about Satan makes little sense to me

Satan is a problem spot in many ways, and his mere existence and continued freedom are chief among them. Are we really supposed to believe that God cannot keep one of His own creation imprisoned if He chooses to do so? Yet, we are told that Satan and his cohorts escaped the incarceration of God and is allowed to run free among humans.

 

[Glo918]

I think its also important to remember Satan can only be in one place at one time, unlike God, he cannot be in more than 1 place at 1 time, and **since he is in Hell, **Im not sure how he can also be in our world, tempting us as well. I dont think its possible to come and go from hell either.

Im sorry to say, but much of what is said about Satan makes little sense to me

He is not in Hell all the time apparently as he tempted Jesus in the desert.

 

[glendab]

Hey there Mike!

Satan has 1/3 of the angels on his side, they are now demons, I dont think anyone knows the exact number of demons though, as the bible says the number of angels is ‘innumerable’, or so many, it is impossible to count them, being that Satan took 1/3 of them, its safe to say there is ALOT of demons!

I think its also important to remember Satan can only be in one place at one time, unlike God, he cannot be in more than 1 place at 1 time, and since he is in Hell, Im not sure how he can also be in our world, tempting us as well. I dont think its possible to come and go from hell either.

So, either Satan has more abilities than we think or the bible is wrong about him. The bible refers to Satan/ demons as the ‘enemy’ many times, but at the same time, God allows this enemy MANY abilities…??

I can only assume, since Satan did what he did against God, and as a result, he was cast out of Heaven BUT he also retained most if not all of his powers, he is still basically immortal, in that he does not really have a lifespan or age in anyway, he controls (probably millions or more) demons, so he has his own army that obey him, he has the ability influence and interact with mankind, all this yet he is supposed to be in Hell, being punished and tormented for what he did…So, if this was the result of Satans rebellion, I can only assume any human that commits the same sin as Satan would also receive the same kind of treatment…right? If not, why? God says humans are more important to him than the angels, this includes satan/ demons too, so should we actually expect more abilities than Satan got?

Im sorry to say, but much of what is said about Satan makes little sense to me

Want a reeeeeeallly scary fact? The devils who fell were supernatural beings with supernatural abilities. They retained their supernatural abilities even after they fell. :bigyikes: There are 9 Choirs of Angels and there are 9 corresponding levels of devils each with it’s own special abilities and functions. Even the weakest devil has supernatural powers that you, as a mere human being do not have. That’s pretty scary if you ask me.

But be not afraid. We as humans have recourse to the Blessed Virgin, the Saints the Sacraments, the sacramentals, relics and prayers and although we are weak, we are not alone in our battles against principalities and powers and dominions, etc. Fight the good fight.

Glenda

 

[mikekle]

Hey there Mike!

Want a reeeeeeallly scary fact? The devils who fell were supernatural beings with supernatural abilities. They retained their supernatural abilities even after they fell. :bigyikes: There are 9 Choirs of Angels and there are 9 corresponding levels of devils each with it’s own special abilities and functions. Even the weakest devil has supernatural powers that you, as a mere human being do not have. That’s pretty scary if you ask me.

But be not afraid. We as humans have recourse to the Blessed Virgin, the Saints the Sacraments, the sacramentals, relics and prayers and although we are weak, we are not alone in our battles against principalities and powers and dominions, etc. Fight the good fight.

Glenda

Yes, this does not surprise me that angels/ demons have supernatural abilities, but what DOES surprise me is that satan and the rest of the fallen actually retained their powers after the fall, and actually satan probably gained some extra power, in that he seems to have the ability to tempt entire nations and tempt more than 1 person at one time!!

Why would God let them retain all these powers, especially since satan tried to commit the ultimate sin, something no human could even attempt to commit, so he is kicked out of heaven, but this seems to be the extent of his punishment, he kept all this power, he will never die in the way humans do, he obviously can be in more than 1 place at one time, he managed to escape a prison God created for him…??

Furthermore, if you look at the world, it is pretty clear who is winning over more souls!!! For someone to say that the enemy of God being able to influence more people than God himself has, and this has no implications at all…does not make any sense to me…this is HUGE imo, and very significant in the larger picture I would assume.

 

[mikekle]

He is not in Hell all the time apparently as he tempted Jesus in the desert.

Whoa Whoa, wait a minute, I thought once in Hell, that was it, there was NO coming back?

Well, if satan and all his demons can do this, I have to assume everyone else there can do the same.

 

[glendab]

Hey Mike, It is a MYSTERY isn’t it?

For some understanding read Revelations where the devil is allowed out of the Abyss for a time and then check out Job’s story when God permits the devil to visit Job and afflict him. How is it that God and the devil are even conversing? HUH?

It really is a Mystery we cannot fathom. But we an learn a few things about it from the Church. The devil delights in man’s ignorance. I forget who said that but I like repeating it.

Glenda

 

[St_Francis]

Whoa Whoa, wait a minute, I thought once in Hell, that was it, there was NO coming back?

Well, if satan and all his demons can do this, I have to assume everyone else there can do the same.

Your reasoning is wrong here: devils are angels, albeit bad, and thus are a different sort of being than we are. However, neither devils nor condemned human souls can enter Heaven once condemned.

 

[St_Francis]

Yes, this does not surprise me that angels/ demons have supernatural abilities, but what DOES surprise me is that satan and the rest of the fallen actually retained their powers after the fall, and actually satan probably gained some extra power, in that he seems to have the ability to tempt entire nations and tempt more than 1 person at one time!!

Why would God let them retain all these powers, especially since satan tried to commit the ultimate sin, something no human could even attempt to commit, so he is kicked out of heaven, but this seems to be the extent of his punishment, he kept all this power, he will never die in the way humans do, he obviously can be in more than 1 place at one time, he managed to escape a prison God created for him…??

Furthermore, if you look at the world, it is pretty clear who is winning over more souls!!! For someone to say that the enemy of God being able to influence more people than God himself has, and this has no implications at all…does not make any sense to me…this is HUGE imo, and very significant in the larger picture I would assume.

You have a lot of misconceptions about devils, and also about humans.

First, when God created us, He gave us supernatural gifts which allowed us to resist evil easily (among other gifts). When Adam and Eve sinned, they lost those gifts

Devils are bad or fallen angels. As spiritual beings, they are not “in” physical places, they are more in states.

God has more power than do devils, bit we hace to ask for His help because He wants to allow us free will. He doesn’t want to impose Himself on us.

Devils don’t care about that. They will do what they can to us whether we want them to or not. They are like bullies.

As to your idea that it seems the devil has more influence rthan God does… first, the evil in the world does not occur solely because of the devil’s influence. There is our own concupiscence.

And if the devil has so much influence, that is a result of human inaction. We could defeat the devil in an instant if we *all *turned to God and prayed for His help, but all to many people reject God in favor of their own selfish desires. There are lots of people the devil barely has to bother with at all because they are choosing the wide road all on their own.

 

[SighGuy]

Oldcelt, no orthodox Catholic believes that God cannot keep Satan contained. If God so wishes, Satan would simply un-be. Satan is creature. God is creator. Satan is not even reasonably comparable to God.

God permits and wills all things, with the sole exception of sin. God permits all sorts of hardship and death-- wills it, even. He permits sin, but does not will it. Not a sparrow falls to the ground without the Father’s knowledge.

None of us understand His reasoning. Does the dog understand our life and our problems, or our decisions? Then so much less will we understand God’s, because we are further away from God than the dog is to us.

The problem of evil or of Satan does not exist for an orthodox Catholic. Try “Conformity to the Will of God” drawn chiefly from St. Alphonsus Liguori

 

[Nelka]

The devil doesn’t make you do stuff he tempts you to do stuff and we say okay.

 

[St_Francis]

The devil doesn’t make you do stuff he tempts you to do stuff and we say okay.

Perfect!

 

[mikekle]

You have a lot of misconceptions about devils, and also about humans.

First, when God created us, He gave us supernatural gifts which allowed us to resist evil easily (among other gifts). When Adam and Eve sinned, they lost those gifts

Devils are bad or fallen angels. As spiritual beings, they are not “in” physical places, they are more in states.

God has more power than do devils, bit we hace to ask for His help because He wants to allow us free will. He doesn’t want to impose Himself on us.

Devils don’t care about that. They will do what they can to us whether we want them to or not. They are like bullies.

As to your idea that it seems the devil has more influence rthan God does… first, the evil in the world does not occur solely because of the devil’s influence. There is our own concupiscence.

And if the devil has so much influence, that is a result of human inaction. We could defeat the devil in an instant if we *all *turned to God and prayed for His help, but all to many people reject God in favor of their own selfish desires. There are lots of people the devil barely has to bother with at all because they are choosing the wide road all on their own.

Im curious what some of the supernatural abilities mankind had before adam and even sinned? Could you list or describe some? Thank you.

I find it pretty odd that once adam and even sinned, they literally ruined it for everyone to come…just from that ONE SINGLE sinful act! So, if God took away many of mans earlier gifts for this, why did God not take away ANY of Satans/ the demons, powers or abilities? If anything, they seemed to gain more power/abilities once they fell…??? Seems to me God went out of his way to accommodate Satan and the demons, but not for mankind.

 

[St_Francis]

Im curious what some of the supernatural abilities mankind had before adam and even sinned? Could you list or describe some? Thank you.

From the Baltimore Catechism, chapter 5: 52. What was the chief gift bestowed on Adam and Eve by God?
The chief gift bestowed on Adam and Eve by God was sanctifying grace, which made them children of God and gave them the right to heaven.

1. What other gifts were bestowed on Adam and Eve by God?
   The other gifts bestowed on Adam and Eve by God were *happiness in the Garden of Paradise, great knowledge, **control of the passions by reason, *and freedom from suffering and death.

I bolded the gift which is particularly germaine to our topic. As a result of the Fall, our appetites or passions buffet us from below. It’s why we struggle with really really wanting something while our minds are telling us NO!!!

I find it pretty odd that once adam and even sinned, they literally ruined it for everyone to come…just from that ONE SINGLE sinful act! So, if God took away many of mans earlier gifts for this, …

This is mentioned later in the chapter I linked above, but I will explain here as well. The qualities or gifts which God gave Adam and Eve (which would have passed down to us if they hadn’t messed up!) were *above *our nature.

Now imagine this: a man is given millions of dollars by his grandfather. This is not usual, and the man did not work for it, so the money was a free gift, above the man’s “nature” so to speak. This is like God’s giving Adam and Eve the gifts.

Now, imagine the man who received the money was married and had some children, and then he and his wife gambled the money away! So by the time the children are 4 or 5, all the money is *gone. *The family is then back to square one: their “natural” state along with the rest of us.

Now, God told Adam and Eve what would happen if they ate some of that fruit, so it was not unfair for Him to impose those consequences when they ate the fruit, was it? Kind of like a father who tells his son he can no longer drive the family car if he gets a ticket, then takes away the keys when the son gets a ticket. Adam and Eve had everything they could possible want, and only one rule, and they had to go and break that one rule

…why did God not take away ANY of Satans/ the demons, powers or abilities? If anything, they seemed to gain more power/abilities once they fell…??? Seems to me God went out of his way to accommodate Satan and the demons, but not for mankind.

Well, God did take away something from the angels who rebelled against them: he kicked them out of Heaven, the best place, and sent them to Hell, the utter worst place.

The reason the bad angels did not lose any of their abilities is that those abilities are part of their nature; they are not above their nature like the gifts Adam and Eve had and lost. We still have all our abilities, those parts of us which are part of our nature, just as do the bad angels. We just don’t have the “millions of dollars” God had freely given Adam and Eve.

Hope this helps! I really like the Baltimore Catechisms, and after reading them, I read Radio Replies, which are fabulous!