G
gcshapero
Guest
100% yes. No question. The word wasn’t coined until much later, but it has been explained over and over again in the Early Church.
What are the different sides to this “argument”?people on both sides of the argument can only sift through the writings that we have
The OP asked the question, “Did the early church believe in transubstantiation?”Are there 2 sides to this question? What are they?
But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation.
Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands.
And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to ge’noito [so be it].
And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion.
"And this food is called among us Eucharistia [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined.
For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh." - (First Apology, 66)
Sure the authors interpretation that Tertullian was writing against the Gnostics is sound, but why would a writing, that is clearly being written to explain that Jesus had a physical body, be used to interpret earlier Church Fathers? Especially ones writing about a different subject, the Real Presences? It’s two different subjects? This is a huge error in my mind.A generation after Irenaeus, Tertullian (160–225) …provided more information into how the eucharistic elements ought to be understood. Tertullian wrote:
“Having taken the bread and given it to His disciples, Jesus made it His own body, by saying, ‘This is My body,’ that is, the symbol of My body. There could not have been a symbol, however, unless there was first a true body. An empty thing or phantom is incapable of a symbol. …(Against Marcion, 4.40).
Tertullian’s explanation could not be clearer. …recognized that the elements themselves ought to be understood as symbols which represent the reality of Christ’s physical body. Because of the reality they represented, they provided a compelling refutation of docetic error.
Based on Tertullian’s explanation, we have good reason to view the words of Ignatius and Irenaeus in that same light.
The author is trying to say here that Ignatius is saying these people are unwilling to accept the idea that the Eucharist is just a symbol. Seriously? Keep in mind Ignatius is speaking of Christians here that already believe in Jesus. They just hold heterodox opinions, which means they can’t conform to the orthodox standards of belief. Do you honestly believe anyone would have troubles believing the Eucharist is a symbol? If Ignatius words about the Eucharist are purely symbolic his words here make no sense. If the early Church truly taught and believed the Eucharist was only symbolic why would someone cause division because they are unwilling to accept a piece of bread could be a symbol? That makes no sense.Ignatius of Antioch (d. c. 110): “Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1).
And even earlier.For not as common bread nor common drink do we receive these; but since Jesus Christ our Savior was made incarnate by the word of God and had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so too, as we have been taught, the food which has been made into the Eucharist by the Eucharistic prayer set down by him, and by the change (transmutation) of which our blood and flesh is nurtured, is both the flesh and the blood of that incarnated Jesus. – St. Justin Martyr, First Apology 66
They [those with heterodox opinions] abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. – St. Ignatius to the Smyrnaeans 7:1
On this, we stand or fall.To all those Christians who do not profess the real presence: If the early Church got the Eucharist wrong, then how can you trust those very same theologians and bishops who determined your Bible?
Tim Troutman, the author of the article you linked to, begins his Introduction with these words:Of course, the term itself – and terms such as “substance” and “accidents” – were developed over time.
Right, but this goes for everything: Concepts like Trinity, sanctifying grace, magisterium, “Pope,” …and transubstantiation. I understand it might be misleading, but only in terms of terminology. I think that by far, most fathers held the essence of the teaching: That the bread and wine really do transform into Christ’s body and blood. So the “real presence” is not merely some spiritual presence around the Eucharist, or in the context of the gathered community, etc., but actually a real transformation of the Eucharistic elements. Justin Martyr, 2nd century, says as much.Yes, it might be misleading, precisely because the early church fathers had no way of foreseeing in what directions their teaching was going to develop in later centuries. When we use the word “transubstantiation” today, we convey a meaning that the early church fathers might very well not have recognized as their own.
That’s a very interesting point. Do you have any idea of when, more or less, that linguistic change occurred and it became “sacramentally incorrect” for Catholics to use the terms “bread” and “wine” to designate the consecrated species? Where would be the place to start looking?Actively avoiding the terms “bread” and “wine” for the consecrated Species seems to be a relatively recent habit.
First, the Protestants invalidly ordained their ministers. Then, they stopped receiving the graces of Most-Holy Communion. Only then did they stop believing in the True Presence, and have to rationalize away the clear implications of scripture here.It isn’t logical that people would walk away from Jesus over a perceived symbol.
Historically, that only fits some groups of Protestants.First, the Protestants invalidly ordained their ministers. Then, they stopped receiving the graces of Most-Holy Communion. Only then did they stop believing in the True Presence, and have to rationalize away the clear implications of scripture here.
Works for me.On the contrary, Christ, the final Revelation of God, said he would be with his church throughout the ages. We can be sure a teaching is of Christ if his Church, led by His duly appointed shepherds, in fact teaches it.
Look no further than the Catechism.