Did the Islamic Golden Age Really Existed?

[Mosacked]

It is widely accepted that the Golden Age of Islam started in the 8th century and into the 13th century.

But let’s look at it carefully.

The Islamic era was established through warring turks in huge and terrible wars and conquests from the 7th to the 9th century that ultimately established the Caliphate.

Do you think its even remotely possible that while the empire was at war with people killing and getting killed, there were muslims who were feverishly working out mathematical algebras & science in made-shift laboratories and classrooms?

My point is this. It is (at least to me) totally ludicrous to believe that great mathematicians & scientists were born to the warring turks (barbaric in nature without any basics of math or science) during or right after the wars. It takes a few generations to produce great scientists & mathematicians.

Instead I believe it should be accepted that great mathematicians & scientists were captured and forcibly converted into muslims in these conquests. There was never any Islamic mathematicians nor Islamic scientists. There was a huge community of captive kafir mathematicians and scientists forced into islam and to adopt islamic names. Islam never had a great cultural golden age.

Just like the religion itself, everything that islam stands for is bogus and burgled/robbed/snatched/copied from the non-muslims. I cannot see how their claims can be validated/proven with sensible reasonings.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

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[MugenOne]

Mosacked, you are possibly correct. Never thought of that.

 

[Sam_777]

Instead I believe it should be accepted that great mathematicians & scientists were captured and forcibly converted into muslims in these conquests. There was never any Islamic mathematicians nor Islamic scientists. There was a huge community of captive kafir mathematicians and scientists forced into islam and to adopt islamic names. Islam never had a great cultural golden age.

That idea could be right if we look at the miserable status of the Islamic countries nowadays…

No inventions, no science, Islamic and Arabic universities are ranked low upon others, etc…

 

[planten]

That idea could be right if we look at the miserable status of the Islamic countries nowadays…

No inventions, no science, Islamic and Arabic universities are ranked low upon others, etc…

Very good Sam_777. Good news. There is no inventions, no science in Islamic countries. What about those countries which have inventions and science?. Are they christian countries?? Please tell if USA, UK, Germany are christian countries so that we attach some other inventions to their credit.

Whenever we complain of all the bad things going on in those western countries, you people say that they are not christian countries. Some Catholics even said that there is no christian country in the world nowadays. So what happened to christianity?? Has it disappeared from the world.?? Not a good sign.

 

[Sam_777]

Very good Sam_777. Good news. There is no inventions, no science in Islamic countries. What about those countries which have inventions and science?. Are they christian countries?? Please tell if USA, UK, Germany are christian countries so that we attach some other inventions to their credit.

Whenever we complain of all the bad things going on in those western countries, you people say that they are not christian countries. Some Catholics even said that there is no christian country in the world nowadays. So what happened to christianity?? Has it disappeared from the world.?? Not a good sign.

That is not the subject of this thread, the subject is about Islam cultural golden age.

 

[planten]

That is not the subject of this thread, the subject is about Islam cultural golden age.

Sam_777, Thanks for the reminder about the subject. Wassalam.

 

[benidict]

It is widely accepted that the Golden Age of Islam started in the 8th century and into the 13th century.

But let’s look at it carefully.

The Islamic era was established through warring turks in huge and terrible wars and conquests from the 7th to the 9th century that ultimately established the Caliphate.

Do you think its even remotely possible that while the empire was at war with people killing and getting killed, there were muslims who were feverishly working out mathematical algebras & science in made-shift laboratories and classrooms?

My point is this. It is (at least to me) totally ludicrous to believe that great mathematicians & scientists were born to the warring turks (barbaric in nature without any basics of math or science) during or right after the wars. It takes a few generations to produce great scientists & mathematicians.

Instead I believe it should be accepted that great mathematicians & scientists were captured and forcibly converted into muslims in these conquests. There was never any Islamic mathematicians nor Islamic scientists. There was a huge community of captive kafir mathematicians and scientists forced into islam and to adopt islamic names. Islam never had a great cultural golden age.

Just like the religion itself, everything that islam stands for is bogus and burgled/robbed/snatched/copied from the non-muslims. I cannot see how their claims can be validated/proven with sensible reasonings.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

here you go again mosack. going against history, to slam someone. tell me, do you ever have anything positive to say to anyone. or is your mind so small and closed, that you cannot see anything outside your small view screen. always stirring the pot. looking to get people riled up…look at spain before the Christians took it back over. Jews and Muslims were living in peace. there were institutes of learning, and people got along with there neighbors. so yes there have been bright spots even in the history of islam. you however are too closed minded to see it. or anything that is truth. peace

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Mosacked, you are correct. Never thought of that.

Fixed it for you .

 

[Alvarillo]

here you go again mosack. going against history, to slam someone. tell me, do you ever have anything positive to say to anyone. or is your mind so small and closed, that you cannot see anything outside your small view screen. always stirring the pot. looking to get people riled up…look at spain before the Christians took it back over. Jews and Muslims were living in peace. there were institutes of learning, and people got along with there neighbors. so yes there have been bright spots even in the history of islam. you however are too closed minded to see it. or anything that is truth. peace

Although I completely disagree with the OP’s point (there is no doubt that Alfarabi, Averroes and others were muslims without being forced into it, although especially in the case of Averroes some were considered slightly heretical) I have to say that the idea that Al-Andalus was a time for peaceful coexistence is just a plain myth. This perception of Muslim rule in Spain was started by romantic poets and other authors in the 19th century, more interested in their idealism than historical acuracy, in fact any serious historical research (and I urge you not to take my word on this and actually go to the sources, or at least a historian free from ideological bias) will show that any “peaceful” coexistance between Muslims Jews and Christians was based on the domination of the Muslims over the other two groups in the form of restrictions on their religious practice and taxes. And that’s just in the “peaceful” periods, there were also a great many martyrs during this time.

So, I do not doubt there have been “bright spots even in the history of Islam” but Al-Andalus…probably not one of them. In fact, if this could be considered a bright spot in anything other than 19th century literature or modern Muslim propaganda then I’ll be forced to reconsider the first comment.

 

[benidict]

Although I completely disagree with the OP’s point (there is no doubt that Alfarabi, Averroes and others were muslims without being forced into it, although especially in the case of Averroes some were considered slightly heretical) I have to say that the idea that Al-Andalus was a time for peaceful coexistence is just a plain myth. This perception of Muslim rule in Spain was started by romantic poets and other authors in the 19th century, more interested in their idealism than historical acuracy, in fact any serious historical research (and I urge you not to take my word on this and actually go to the sources, or at least a historian free from ideological bias) will show that any “peaceful” coexistance between Muslims Jews and Christians was based on the domination of the Muslims over the other two groups in the form of restrictions on their religious practice and taxes. And that’s just in the “peaceful” periods, there were also a great many martyrs during this time.

So, I do not doubt there have been “bright spots even in the history of Islam” but Al-Andalus…probably not one of them. In fact, if this could be considered a bright spot in anything other than 19th century literature or modern Muslim propaganda then I’ll be forced to reconsider the first comment.

will study up on it and get back to you. thanks. and i for one am not a muslim sympathizer. far from it. i just dont like blanket statements being thrown on a whole group of people. not even extreme fundamentalist like mosacked. Peace

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .Jews and Muslims were living in peace. there were institutes of learning, and people got along with there neighbors. . .

Some time read the stories of the Catholic martyrs in that period.

 

[benidict]

Some time read the stories of the Catholic martyrs in that period.

i am sure there were many of them. also if it were not for the Catholic Church, we would probably be speaking arabic right now. im deploying later this year to fight these people. trust me, i have no problem going to arms against the islamofacist in that region. or any region. as i stated im not a sympathizer. just not going to say every muslim at all times in history, has been violent. if that were true, then i wouldnt be sitting across from a muslim friend of mine from time to time playing chess. and for the record, he beats me every time. peace

 

[mark_a]

It is widely accepted that the Golden Age of Islam started in the 8th century and into the 13th century.

But let’s look at it carefully.

The Islamic era was established through warring turks in huge and terrible wars and conquests from the 7th to the 9th century that ultimately established the Caliphate.

Do you think its even remotely possible that while the empire was at war with people killing and getting killed, there were muslims who were feverishly working out mathematical algebras & science in made-shift laboratories and classrooms?

My point is this. It is (at least to me) totally ludicrous to believe that great mathematicians & scientists were born to the warring turks (barbaric in nature without any basics of math or science) during or right after the wars. It takes a few generations to produce great scientists & mathematicians.

Instead I believe it should be accepted that great mathematicians & scientists were captured and forcibly converted into muslims in these conquests. There was never any Islamic mathematicians nor Islamic scientists. There was a huge community of captive kafir mathematicians and scientists forced into islam and to adopt islamic names. Islam never had a great cultural golden age.

Just like the religion itself, everything that islam stands for is bogus and burgled/robbed/snatched/copied from the non-muslims. I cannot see how their claims can be validated/proven with sensible reasonings.

muslimsopenyoureyes.blogspot.com

.

I don’t know why mathematics and mathemeticians couldn’t be put to use for war way back when just as they are today. Einstein comes to mind.

 

[planten]

Some time read the stories of the Catholic martyrs in that period.

The Muslims ruled over Spain for more than 700 years. That is very long time. It is possible that a few mistakes may have been made during that time. I am sure Queen Mary, The Catholic bloody Queen of Scotland must have killed more christians during her short span of rule.

Also the Muslims may have killed more of their own people in the bad (last) days due to their internal political killings.

What you are mentioning is a small matter and things cannot be judged on that alone.

It is reported in books of history that there were many good institutes of learning in Spain during the Muslim (Moors) rule. The princes of Europe used to take admission in those colleges. There were libraries, public baths, public gardens, places of worship. It was a bright happy time, golden time of human history. There was a rule of law. The judges had great powers so that they could dispense justice to all people. Even the Caliph was not above the law.

It is well known that in a city (?) there was a 10 mile long wide road with shops etc and 1000 shops of books only. I have personally heard from the guide that there were 300 public baths in Granada during Muslim rule. Do not base your results on a few years or few incidents. Think of the 700 years please. It is a very long time. So it was good while it lasted.

There were many scholars, originals, of Spain (Al-Andulus) intellectuals who contributed to the goodness of mankind. Denying that would be denying the Truth which the Christians so much profess to support.

 

[StrawberryJam]

Persians did contribute much to culture and art in the world. I don’t like threads like this, simply because I am not seeing much intellectual integrity here in this topic. To ignore the contributions of another culture, simply because of differing theology is morally bankrupt to me.

Have fun in your question you do not desire any real answer to.

 

[7_Sorrows]

Persians did contribute much to culture and art in the world. I don’t like threads like this, simply because I am not seeing much intellectual integrity here in this topic. To ignore the contributions of another culture, simply because of differing theology is morally bankrupt to me.

Have fun in your question you do not desire any real answer to.

they contributed much to architecture, music and dance throughout that part of the world.
i do believe that there was a Golden Age of Islam. i lived in spain in the early 70’s and saw the influence everywhere. unfortunately, many of the islamic countries have not moved forward very much in the last several centuries and are behind. i am sure that they would still have a lot to contribute, if they did not have such repressive governments.
women in many of the countries are kept from being educated.

 

[planten]

Persians did contribute much to culture and art in the world. I don’t like threads like this, simply because I am not seeing much intellectual integrity here in this topic. To ignore the contributions of another culture, simply because of differing theology is morally bankrupt to me.

Have fun in your question you do not desire any real answer to.

S J, No one is denying the contribution of nations to science here except some christians. We believe that the Greeks contributed much to science and mathematics and logic. So did the egyptians. help in many ways. The persians too and Hindus and chinese.

Nobody is denying such things.Only some one was anxious that Muslism did not have any golden era and they did nothing… So, please forgive any disturbing words from Muslim posters. There is no question here about the Persians at all.

 

[benidict]

Persians did contribute much to culture and art in the world. I don’t like threads like this, simply because I am not seeing much intellectual integrity here in this topic. To ignore the contributions of another culture, simply because of differing theology is morally bankrupt to me.

Have fun in your question you do not desire any real answer to.

thank you thank you thank you:thumbsup: you do have a way with words strawberry jam. i thought i was going to be alone on this one. looks like at least 3 others are seeing through this question too. peace

 

[Alvarillo]

thank you thank you thank you:thumbsup: you do have a way with words strawberry jam. i thought i was going to be alone on this one. looks like at least 3 others are seeing through this question too. peace

I was with you from the start. It is doubtless that there have been great contributions to science and civilization made by Muslims. Taking only one aspect for example, their capacity for taking the best from each of the cultures they conquered and combining it to form their own, as with architecture, was simply unparalleled.

However, as a Spaniard and as a student of history I can’t help but cringe at the inaccuracies that are constantly put forth about Al-Andalus. For example, and once again merely taking a small point so as to save time, the idea that they “ruled Spain for 700 years”. The year 711 the Moors came in, called by one of the two Visigoth factions fighting for supremacy to fight on their side and instead took over the country, in a short time and encountering very little (and where it was pathetic) resistance they easily penetrated up to the north. However, as early as 722 the reconquest had already started, and to make the blanket statement that they ruled Spain for 700 years doesn’t do justice to the complex period which was the reconquestwhen the situation was completely reversed by the end with the Moors only in Granada by the end of it and the Christian Kingdoms covering most of Spain, or the fact that from the 11th century onward the Califate was split into many rivaling kingdoms (reinos the taifas we call them, I don’t know what they would be in English). So, according to muslim propaganda and 19th century romantics, 3 centuries of a strong, centralized Moorish state (with many different political and phases within) fighting against weak Christian kingdoms, plus 4 centuries of weak Moorish kingdoms (with many different phases within too, even some great cultural and even military advances in this time) fighting against strong Christian nations equals seven centuries of Muslim rule in Spain.

 

[planten]

Alvarillo, Thanks. Reading your post and the complex calculation, I almost came to believe that Moors were not in Spain at all.

I travelled through Spain and saw some good (beautiful) faces. I could recognize the Arab blood and the hazel eyes. God bless them (you) all.