Did the Islamic Golden Age Really Existed?

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Quite interesting. In England, we had to face about 18 hours fast in summer and later, with some facility, we faced 23 hours fast continous for one month. We used to eat all slowly for one hour from 9 p.m. to 10 p.m. I personally do not know the exact nature of the christians fasts. I had just heard their fast may harder than Muslim’s fasts.

Now two questions::

1. Do the Bahai’s fast in the same way as Muslims do?? I hope not.
2. What is Episcopian or Episcopal? Please tell.

Baha’is fast the same way that Muslims do, except it is always the 19 days between March 2 and March 20. So Baha’is don’t get the extremes of Summer and Winter. I was a Baha’i for about 30 years.

The Episcopal Church is the successor to the Church of England in the United States, founded after the American revolution. Unlike the C of E, it is not established, and its bishops are elected by their dioceses.

I don’t see how Christian fasts could be harder than Muslim fasts. They are allowed some small amount of food and drink, and the nature of one’s particular fast is more or less self-designed. Perhaps, because they are not allowed to eat all they can in the dark hours, it might be harder, and of course it is longer than Ramadan by 10 days.

 

[Mosacked]

Baha’is fast the same way that Muslims do, except it is always the 19 days between March 2 and March 20. So Baha’is don’t get the extremes of Summer and Winter. I was a Baha’i for about 30 years.

The Episcopal Church is the successor to the Church of England in the United States, founded after the American revolution. Unlike the C of E, it is not established, and its bishops are elected by their dioceses.

I don’t see how Christian fasts could be harder than Muslim fasts. They are allowed some small amount of food and drink, and the nature of one’s particular fast is more or less self-designed. Perhaps, because they are not allowed to eat all they can in the dark hours, it might be harder, and of course it is longer than Ramadan by 10 days.

Muslims gorge food right after their fasts. This is not principle of fasting. Fasting is a denial of worldly needs. It is not a TIME for you to just stop eating and then force-feed yourself subsequently, that would be called delayed ingestion.

 

[benidict]

Kadaveri spouted irrelevant gibberish and you jumped right in. That’s a great place to end.

the only one spouting irrelevant gibberish is you, mosacked. do you ever have anything positive to state, or is insulting people just your thing? is their any group you dont hate? also how many muslims do you know? i would love to see just one positive post in response to a person who disagrees with you. do you think you could manage that? also your education in history is lacking, as is your practice in charity… just throwing that out there. peace

 

[Mosacked]

the only one spouting irrelevant gibberish is you, mosacked. do you ever have anything positive to state, or is insulting people just your thing? is their any group you dont hate? also how many muslims do you know? i would love to see just one positive post in response to a person who disagrees with you. do you think you could manage that? also your education in history is lacking, as is your practice in charity… just throwing that out there. peace

I dont’ hate anybody, I just hate sin.

And YOU are sinning.

 

[dzheremi]

Wow, Mosacked. You are a priest now? You can tell everyone what they are doing and should be doing?

 

[benidict]

I dont’ hate anybody, I just hate sin.

And YOU are sinning.

and how am i sinning masacked?

 

[benidict]

I dont’ hate anybody, I just hate sin.

And YOU are sinning.

as i thought. you respond like this,then log off. typical. plz answere before tomorrow. im leaving for pre deployment training and will be gone for 2 months. you really make my army day… Peace

 

[Mosacked]

as i thought. you respond like this,then log off. typical. plz answere before tomorrow. im leaving for pre deployment training and will be gone for 2 months. you really make my army day… Peace

benidict, you think? I logged out for a cuppa…don’t expect me to be here for everything. No offense for the temperament, but you fellas sometimes really crack me up.

Do you even read what the guy wrote? Let me ‘analogise’ it for you.

“the only one spouting irrelevant gibberish is you, bendict. do you ever have anything positive to state, or is insulting people just your thing? is their any group you dont hate? also how many muslims do you know? i would love to see just one positive post in response to a person who disagrees with you. do you think you could manage that? also your education in history is lacking, as is your practice in charity, as in your training for the 2 months… just throwing that out there. peace”

Peace? The guy threw out rubbish and I log out for a cuppa and you feel offended?

Wow…you fellas really show me why Hell is so full of people.

And for your information, I know more muslims than the hairs on your head. I spent a good 20 years in some muslim countries. So, before you guys start your false accusation in defense for your absolute failure in rebutting the truth, I suggest you go brush your teeth…yes before you go for your pre-deployment training too.

 

[Usbek_de_Perse]

Muslims gorge food right after their fasts. This is not principle of fasting. Fasting is a denial of worldly needs. It is not a TIME for you to just stop eating and then force-feed yourself subsequently, that would be called delayed ingestion.

If you ever try that kind of fast you will realize that you cannot gorge yourself for more than a night or two. The body’s blood sugar is replenished when you eat, you have trouble sleeping if you eat too much, and you must rise before sunrise to eat again. The trick is to discipline your body, and that cannot be done while partying at night.

I don’t expect people who have not done this to understand, but fasting is hard, and the time you eat must be managed carefully, especially over a month of fasting.

I am not recommending that Christians take up the Ramadan style fast, but we must respect the genuine religious disciplines of a pious people.

 

[dzheremi]

I’ll probably get disciplined for saying this, but no we don’t. Islamic fasts aren’t anything to be jealous of or imitate, though I agree with you in so far that we ought not go out of our way to impede or belittle those that hold to them.

And as to the relative difficulty of Christian fasting vis-a-vis Muslim fasting, I call bologna on this “Muslims have it soooo tough” talk. The Ethiopian Orthodox calendar has 250 fast days per year, about 180 of which are obligatory for all (the others are for priests, nuns, and other religious). The dietary restrictions are as follows: “Fast generally implies one meal a day to be taken either in the evening or after 2.45 p.m. with total abstention from meat, fats, eggs and diary products. Instead they use cereals, vegetables and other type of food devoid of fats. Smoking is a breach of the fast.” So, they can have cereals or vegetables. It is my understanding that Muslims can eat anything (so long as they don’t make a point of gorging themselves) once the daily fast is over. I suppose it’s all a matter of perspective, but I think any Christian who would look at the Muslim fast as something to be envious of or be imitated or admired is severely misguided. It is very telling to me that the Muslim fast is for daylight hours only, when they can engage in it publicly, and then at night in private among family they will eat. I guess it is a communal/bonding experience, but it also reminds me of Matthew 6 warnings against doing righteous deeds so that others may see them.

 

[Kadaveri]

Well fasting during the night when most people are asleep would be rather useless.

 

[dzheremi]

That misses the point entirely, Kadaveri. Fasting all day taking only one small meal is apparently seen as somehow “easier” than the Muslim fast. My point is not to look at it that way, but instead for Christians to keep in mind Matthew chapter six, wherein we are warned against public displays of piety.

I have no issue with any Muslim keeping their fast, but the idea that any Christian should (seek to) imitate it or feel inadequate because of it is frankly wrong. Perhaps I am reading too much into Usbek’s comments.

 

[benidict]

benidict, you think? I logged out for a cuppa…don’t expect me to be here for everything. No offense for the temperament, but you fellas sometimes really crack me up.

Do you even read what the guy wrote? Let me ‘analogise’ it for you.

“the only one spouting irrelevant gibberish is you, bendict. do you ever have anything positive to state, or is insulting people just your thing? is their any group you dont hate? also how many muslims do you know? i would love to see just one positive post in response to a person who disagrees with you. do you think you could manage that? also your education in history is lacking, as is your practice in charity, as in your training for the 2 months… just throwing that out there. peace”

Peace? The guy threw out rubbish and I log out for a cuppa and you feel offended?

Wow…you fellas really show me why Hell is so full of people.

And for your information, I know more muslims than the hairs on your head. I spent a good 20 years in some muslim countries. So, before you guys start your false accusation in defense for your absolute failure in rebutting the truth, I suggest you go brush your teeth…yes before you go for your pre-deployment training too.

honestly mosacked. temper temper temper. first you have no power to offend me. second, i doubt you know any muslims or have ever been to a muslim country. third i dont think you have ever even been out of your parents house. with the way you dialouge you sound like your 16 years old. if that. your angry responses get you nowhere. actually, i find you very amusing. i just cannot wait to see what you say next because its just so silly. i dont know where you went to school but i think i understand outcome based education a little better now. thank you for enlightening me. and you help me understand, why people are leaving the fundamentalist congregations in droves peace

 

[Mosacked]

honestly mosacked. temper temper temper. first you have no power to offend me. second, i doubt you know any muslims or have ever been to a muslim country. third i dont think you have ever even been out of your parents house. with the way you dialouge you sound like your 16 years old. if that. your angry responses get you nowhere. actually, i find you very amusing. i just cannot wait to see what you say next because its just so silly. i dont know where you went to school but i think i understand outcome based education a little better now. thank you for enlightening me. and you help me understand, why people are leaving the fundamentalist congregations in droves peace

My Charity In Response To Your Gibberish .

 

[benidict]

My Charity In Response To Your Gibberish .

yes, i left you speechless didnt i? now check your mohammed thread. this is going to be F.U.N. fun! peace

 

[Kadaveri]

That misses the point entirely, Kadaveri. Fasting all day taking only one small meal is apparently seen as somehow “easier” than the Muslim fast. My point is not to look at it that way, but instead for Christians to keep in mind Matthew chapter six, wherein we are warned against public displays of piety.

I have no issue with any Muslim keeping their fast, but the idea that any Christian should (seek to) imitate it or feel inadequate because of it is frankly wrong. Perhaps I am reading too much into Usbek’s comments.

I’m not interested in comparing Christian and Muslim fasting practices. I just found your comment that the Muslim fast being for daylight hours only makes it a public display of piety to be ill thought out.

 

[benidict]

If you ever try that kind of fast you will realize that you cannot gorge yourself for more than a night or two. The body’s blood sugar is replenished when you eat, you have trouble sleeping if you eat too much, and you must rise before sunrise to eat again. The trick is to discipline your body, and that cannot be done while partying at night.

I don’t expect people who have not done this to understand, but fasting is hard, and the time you eat must be managed carefully, especially over a month of fasting.

I am not recommending that Christians take up the Ramadan style fast, but we must respect the genuine religious disciplines of a pious people.

agreed, we must respect the genuine religious disciplines of a pious people. but what about respect for those who do not hold to the fast in these countries. a marine was killed in afghanistan, because he dared to take a drink of water in front of one of these pious people. the pious person shot him dead. i have no problem how they fast. i however do not follow their religion, and should not feel compelled to participate. i surely wouldnt force a muslim to attend midnight mass. respect goes both ways. for pious people on both sides. peace

 

[planten]

agreed, we must respect the genuine religious disciplines of a pious people. but what about respect for those who do not hold to the fast in these countries. a marine was killed in afghanistan, because he dared to take a drink of water in front of one of these pious people. the pious person shot him dead. i have no problem how they fast. i however do not follow their religion, and should not feel compelled to participate. i surely wouldnt force a muslim to attend midnight mass. respect goes both ways. for pious people on both sides. peace

There is a big problem amongst Muslims. I do not know the roots of it. In many Muslim countries, it is law that nobody will eat or drink in public during month of Ramadhan. The hotels will remain closed by order.

I remember once I was going to a doctor with son having fever. That was about 4 p.m. The child needed drink. I tried to buy a bottle of water. The shopkeeper would not sell me any water.He said it was against the law. I told him my son age five needs to drink. He did not sell me any water.

Once, I had a christian sub-ordinate. He was very very good person. May have been Catholic. He was working and living close to me, with me. It was month of Ramadhan. He voluntrily started fasting with me. He completed the whole month of fasting, all by his own intention.

Lastly, I say again that it is not fair to stop eating and drinking for any one (even non-Muslims) in Muslim countires during month of Ramadhan. If any one is fasting, he/she will observe fast. If any one is not fasting, it is nobody’s business to ask if he/she is fasting or not. Nobody can ask why some one is not fasting.

In the month of Ramadhan, if any one comes to my home, we always ask him/her if he/she was observing fast at that time. If observing fast, okay. If not observing fast, we offer them food and drink in our house, and no questions asked.

I am almost sure that there is no order to make any Muslim observe fast during month of Ramadhan. It is illegal to oppress any one on that subject. I do not know any reason why the Muslim countries pass such laws as to restrict eating and drinking in public during the month of Ramadhan. Such laws are not valid. But i may be wrong. I cannot say.

Also, fasting or no fasting, during any day of year,if any one comes at the house,he may be a christian or a Jew or a Hindu or any branch of Muslims, we always offer food and drink. If accepted, well and good. If one does not like to take it, we do not mind.

Like some JW’s English couple, had come at house. I offered food and drink. They did not take. But they left some tower booklets with me.

Then much later another JW, a local, came to my house. I offered him food. He ate full meal. And we had a long friendly chat.

 

[Contarini]

I’ll probably get disciplined for saying this, but no we don’t. Islamic fasts aren’t anything to be jealous of or imitate, though I agree with you in so far that we ought not go out of our way to impede or belittle those that hold to them.

And as to the relative difficulty of Christian fasting vis-a-vis Muslim fasting, I call bologna on this “Muslims have it soooo tough” talk. The Ethiopian Orthodox calendar has 250 fast days per year, about 180 of which are obligatory for all (the others are for priests, nuns, and other religious). The dietary restrictions are as follows: “Fast generally implies one meal a day to be taken either in the evening or after 2.45 p.m. with total abstention from meat, fats, eggs and diary products. Instead they use cereals, vegetables and other type of food devoid of fats. Smoking is a breach of the fast.” So, they can have cereals or vegetables.

Traditional Christian fasting practices were very strict. But modern Western Christians have either radically weakened them (Roman Catholics) or abandoned them altogether (many/most Protestants). When discussing Islam in the Western Civ class I taught in New Jersey, I once mentioned that Christians have an equivalent to Ramadan (which indeed predated Ramadan): Lent. A Catholic student objected that she didn’t think of what she did in Lent as fasting. And I can see why not, given how lenient the rules are these days.

Christians need to become more aware of our own tradition in this regard.

Edwin

 

[dzheremi]

I’m not interested in comparing Christian and Muslim fasting practices. I just found your comment that the Muslim fast being for daylight hours only makes it a public display of piety to be ill thought out.

Okay. Obviously I don’t or I wouldn’t have approached it that way to begin with.

Traditional Christian fasting practices were very strict. But modern Western Christians have either radically weakened them (Roman Catholics) or abandoned them altogether (many/most Protestants). When discussing Islam in the Western Civ class I taught in New Jersey, I once mentioned that Christians have an equivalent to Ramadan (which indeed predated Ramadan): Lent. A Catholic student objected that she didn’t think of what she did in Lent as fasting. And I can see why not, given how lenient the rules are these days.

Christians need to become more aware of our own tradition in this regard.

Exactly, Edwin. That’s why I brought up the Ethiopians, as they have the most strict, longest fast of any Church that I know. It is silly to look at the incredibly weak western/Latin Catholic “fast” as though it is representative of how Christians fast around the world, in every church. If we would actually fast in accordance with our traditions, there would be no need to look to anyone else to see piety in this regard.